Is Marmol a big part of the problem

[cards53]

I have been getting a feeling that the current swoon has some roots in how the coaching staff is interacting with the players.

I'm really feeling that most of the problem has to do with the offense.

In my mind, we have a starting pitching staff that is just not very good.
This is more fixable by clearing the roster of some starting pitchers and a few relievers.
The relievers can bring something in the trade market, especially our closer.
Then seeing what we have with Roby, Matthews and maybe 29 yr old Curtis Taylor.
I wouldn't mind if we force fed some AA pitchers. We have 3 or 4 possibilities.
This year is lost unless a shocking complete turnaround happens in August and September.

Otherwise the more we lose the better the draft choices!!

Marmol has always come across to me as someone who is giving us the same old line.

Something like: 'Hitters are taking good ABs". 'Really making the pitcher to come to them' .
'Implying that other team is getting a lot of luck with hits that are softly hit'.
We continue to hit fly ball outs in critical ABs.

I don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
He may handle the player's weaknesses differently from what I see in the postgame message.
I really doubt that he is doing what needs to be done to affect positive changes.

In my opinion Ollie has lost the team. We can't continue to blame it on the players.
I believe that the trading deadline changes need to start with a new manager.

We need a new manager that inspires players to want do the right things.

[ramfandan]

My take on the manager situation has been this . All fans who watch games can make their own determination how a manager handles game strategy as we can see that with our own eyes . What NONE of us know is 1) how he does as a motivator in the clubhouse and 2) how he does with discipline of his players ( enforcing rules, penalties, etc. ) .

I have felt that when new POBO takes over and a rebuild is in the works that it is better to start with a NEW voice running the team. Start fresh !
Nothing to do with the performance of Oli but start with a clean slate for all concerned .
At least that is what I would tell Oli in replacing him . My change has noting to do with your own abilities . While disappointed , I would guess Oli would certainly understand that and if he was the new POBO he would probably agree that he would want his own pick to run the team.

[bccardsfan]

A number of us have been calling for this for a long time. It never happens. It will probably not happen until MO is no longer in charge. Sigh.....

[Melville]

He is awful.
Next question.

[bretto12]

The manager can only play the players he is given. He doesn't pitch, hit or play the field. In the end, the players either perform or they don't. There are a lot of reasons the Cards are a bad baseball team. Their success led to years of drafting in the mid 20s and you don't get top talent there. Some bad trades were made and some of the drafted players have not advanced as fast as the team would have liked, but the manager can't perform miracles.
The last two drafts have allowed STL to get players that they normally would never have a chance at drafting. Continuing to lose will offer another shot next year and they can get a core group to take a run at the big market teams.

[12xu]

There is no doubt in my mind that he is a major part of the problem.

[Banner29]

The manager can only play the players he is given. He doesn't pitch, hit or play the field. In the end, the players either perform or they don't. There are a lot of reasons the Cards are a bad baseball team. Their success led to years of drafting in the mid 20s and you don't get top talent there. Some bad trades were made and some of the drafted players have not advanced as fast as the team would have liked, but the manager can't perform miracles.
The last two drafts have allowed STL to get players that they normally would never have a chance at drafting. Continuing to lose will offer another shot next year and they can get a core group to take a run at the big market teams.

This has been explained to you before. If you need top 20 picks to be able to “develop “ players in the farm you suck ar player development. Plain and simple

[Dicktar2023]

I honestly don't think this is even worth talking about anymore.

Marmol is 0 WAR manager. Not terrible, but not good. He's not the whole the problem (not even close), but he's also not someone who is going to rise to the challenge and be part of the solution. I take it the players like him fine, but is he inspiring them to give 110%? No.

[icon]

I imagine the players feel let down by management because they know nothing will be done to improve the current roster at the deadline unlike other so-called contenders. And that can't be playing well in the clubhouse.

So they also know they could be traded at any time. And that can cause some mental issues.

[Southern Illinois]

So now what I read from all of you so-called experts, who have zero real knowledge of what goes on internally with the manager and the team, is that the POBO is outstanding and has given the manager a roster more than capable of winning 90 to 100 games year in and year out.
Morons. In 3 of 4 years including this one, his teams have overachieved. He is considered a by many to be a good teacher of the game. He communicates well and subjects himself to Bernie and others including fans every week. Of course, he is smart enough not to splinter the locker room by ripping the great players Mo has procured for him, as you must believe. If you geniuses ever had a chance to lead a team you would fail spectacularly. What most of you look like from an occasional readers perspective is a mob, the torches always lit and the pitchforks always sharpened and the brain turned off.

[ilcubuffs]

Due to the realization of this Cardinal season have taken the time to watch other MLB teams and games.

Brewer games - entertaining. Game strategy - have a manager who disdains IPads. Play a full 9 innings.

Yankee games - entertaining. When a player gets a good hit or defensive play the dugout reacts as if they won the 7th game of WS.

Dodgers games - hard to deal with Dodger fans. Like the way Roberts interacts with players and coaches. You just know they are never really out of games.

Braves, D Backs, Mariners are also entertaining. By entertaining I mean interesting game strategy, player efforts, etc.

Cards are led by dead men walking - MO Ran and Marmot. Has anyone ever seen them excited?? Ever say something funny??? Ever say anything MLB competent or pertinent?? This team is and plays as a reflection of dead men walking - flat, boring, accepting the results before the game is even played.

New ownership is required. Worn out their welcome and lack the fans trust.

[swatski]

Oli figured out exactly how to keep his job despite not being good at it, so there’s that going for him. Lucky to have a boss who is very happy to have a guy who was willing to just go along with the flow and not make waves. As mediocre as Schildt was, he had too much pride for that.

[ramfandan]

Managers get too much credit and too much blame !.

Look at Dave Roberts .. The Dodgers won the WS last year and the Dodger faithful loved the guy . This year Freeman is strugglng, Mookie is off his game and with a few other injuries , Roberts is being booed . He doesn't look like the same manager as last year according to the fans.

Maybe the performance of the talent on the field has something to do with it .
Oli has his issues no doubt about it but he also does not have a group of All Star type talent players either.

[Carp4Cy]

Well he’s certainly not the solution

[Melville]

The manager can only play the players he is given. He doesn't pitch, hit or play the field. In the end, the players either perform or they don't. There are a lot of reasons the Cards are a bad baseball team. Their success led to years of drafting in the mid 20s and you don't get top talent there. Some bad trades were made and some of the drafted players have not advanced as fast as the team would have liked, but the manager can't perform miracles.
The last two drafts have allowed STL to get players that they normally would never have a chance at drafting. Continuing to lose will offer another shot next year and they can get a core group to take a run at the big market teams.

His teams have a history winning meaningless games - and completely disintegrating the moment games have significance.
That is on him.

[RichieRichSTL]

What it boils down to is we had a manger who wasnt HOF, but he had his players play fundamentally strong ball and who had even less to work with and still managed to end up in the playoffs. Mo didn't like that he spoke our of turn, so he got a manager who would not dare.

It's hard to really say how good or bad Oli is as he is basically doing as he is told. Besides, Mo hired Oli, so Mo is actually ultimately THE PROBLEM. I suspect Bloom however well change managers as think what little independence he has, has not impressed Bloom.

Oli was I'm sure a good bench coach, but he was put in over his head and never really given true independence as shown with Mo picking his coaches and Mo telling him he had to roll with Fedde.

I'm sure Fedde was a good teammate but let's face it, forcing a failing starter into the rotation had to be terrible on morale, when they already have another one in Mikolas. How would you feel knowing that 40% of the time you were likely to lose unless the offense significantly overachieved on that day. This offense doesnt have anyone that carries it, so it isnt like Prime Pujols hits timely 3 run blasts to get them right back in the game.

The long and short is Oli is as much a symptom of the problem as anything. Until Mo is out of power the team will likely falter.