Should Oli seriously consider Herrera as the DH?

[Shady]

Could that be the most prudent way to utilize what Herrera does best, hit? And stay away from where he is suspect. Especially, considering what the other catchers bring. As well as looking ahead to the catchers coming along in the organization.

[JuanAgosto]

It would be a smart move. So of course he won't consistently do it. Mozeliak and the game strategist insist on changing the lineup continuously. So we will be subject to more pathetic Baker at bats. Heaven forbid the best players be placed in consistent spots.

[Melville]

Could that be the most prudent way to utilize what Herrera does best, hit? And stay away from where he is suspect. Especially, considering what the other catchers bring. As well as looking ahead to the catchers coming along in the organization.

That would require keeping Pages, Pozo, and Herrera on the active roster - which is not practical.

[Absolut]

He should jokingly consider it

[cardstatman]

He should wistfully consider it.

... and then maybe thoughtfully consider it

... and then contrast the difference between the two.

[Basil Shabazz]

No. Not this year. This is the year to see how players develop and settle in to roles given patience. We are not winning squat this year.

If Herrera is average defensively at catcher then he is one heck of an asset due to his offense. If he shows after a consistent run of catching this year that he is an extreme liability behind the plate, then you find him a new position or trade him.

[ecleme22]

No. Not this year. This is the year to see how players develop and settle in to roles given patience. We are not winning squat this year.

If Herrera is average defensively at catcher then he is one heck of an asset due to his offense. If he shows after a consistent run of catching this year that he is an extreme liability behind the plate, then you find him a new position or trade him.

Agreed.

While Herrera is a nice DH option here and there, it’s too early to define him as one just yet.

(Unless he starts to really stink it up at catcher and/or pitchers strongly prefer Pages/pozo)

[ClassicO]

Could that be the most prudent way to utilize what Herrera does best, hit? And stay away from where he is suspect. Especially, considering what the other catchers bring. As well as looking ahead to the catchers coming along in the organization.

That would require keeping Pages, Pozo, and Herrera on the active roster - which is not practical.

Your thought process assumes it's better to keep Burleson or Baker at DH. No.
And do you think Herrera should remain a catcher (not what the Cards think - what YOU think)?

I think Ivan is a DH. He's bad at blocking and framing, and for God's sake, after going 0 for 7 in caught stealing so far this year and only 4 out of 59 last year, it's become obvious he's not a legit catcher.

[ramfandan]

Herrera becoming full time DH requires the Cardinals to decide that Burleson is no longer in their plans going forward.
Til they decide that Burley is no longer the guy there Ivan stays at catcher.
Comparing each players ‘ bat’ , it appears that Ivan has more upside . The rest of 2025 will be key for both players.

[Basil Shabazz]

Could that be the most prudent way to utilize what Herrera does best, hit? And stay away from where he is suspect. Especially, considering what the other catchers bring. As well as looking ahead to the catchers coming along in the organization.

That would require keeping Pages, Pozo, and Herrera on the active roster - which is not practical.

Your thought process assumes it's better to keep Burleson or Baker at DH. No.
And do you think Herrera should remain a catcher (not what the Cards think - what YOU think)?

I think Ivan is a DH. He's bad at blocking and framing, and for God's sake, after going 0 for 7 in caught stealing so far this year and only 4 out of 59 last year, it's become obvious he's not a legit catcher.

This year(small sample size), Herrera coverts 43.2% of balls off the strike zone in to strikes. Pozo 41.9%. Pages 44%. The league leader is JC Escara at 54.2%. The Cardinals catchers framing has accounted for 1 loss net run so far this season.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catcher_ ... r&sort=5,1

There is also very little difference in the catcher block rate between Herrera, Pozo, and Pages. Actually right now Herrera is charting a little better than the other 2.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderbo ... ction=desc

Throwing, now this is a valid one and oner where we need to see at least moderate improvement on from Herrera. His arm strength rates low, so he will need to improve pop times and exchanges to improve. This is possible. For perspective though, most elite throwing catchers save about 2 runs a year on an average from their throwing. Top arm strength is Dillon Dingler at 85.8. Herrera is 51 at 75.2. Top exchange time is Escara at .9. Herrera is at .64(tied with Pages) ranking 35. The average sprint speed of runners trying to steal against Dingler is 29.3 ranking him 1 in this category. The average against Herrera is .64 ranking him 46th(Pages is 53rd).
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderbo ... ction=desc

In conclusion, I know it is CT popular to rage on Herrera's defense, but the defensive differences between him and Pages/Pozo is miniscule compared to the offensive difference in favor of Herrera.

Put Herrera at catcher and see how he grows this year.

[Melville]

Could that be the most prudent way to utilize what Herrera does best, hit? And stay away from where he is suspect. Especially, considering what the other catchers bring. As well as looking ahead to the catchers coming along in the organization.

That would require keeping Pages, Pozo, and Herrera on the active roster - which is not practical.

Your thought process assumes it's better to keep Burleson or Baker at DH. No.
And do you think Herrera should remain a catcher (not what the Cards think - what YOU think)?

I think Ivan is a DH. He's bad at blocking and framing, and for God's sake, after going 0 for 7 in caught stealing so far this year and only 4 out of 59 last year, it's become obvious he's not a legit catcher.

I assume nothing - ever.
Shady's question did not involve Burleson or Baker - but I am happy to expand the context to include them.
Absolutely an argument can be made for Herrera over Baker as a RH DH option.
Burleson being LH and having a better career as a hitter than Herrera thus far pretty much makes a DH choice between he and Herrera irrelevant conversation.
As for Herrera's role - I was first to correctly analyze and explain 2 years ago that it would be best for both he and the team to move him to another position (I specifically mentioned LF being the most preferable and 1B an extreme option) - "Eephus" has no business being behind the plate and no future there.
Which brings me back to my original perfect observation - if STL begins to deploy him as DH it will require keeping he, Pages, and Pozo all on the active roster - which is not practical given the current roster construction.
Obviously, you understand and agree with that point or else you would not have recognized the need to remove someone else in order to make it conceivable.
Given the dearth of RH hitting outfield production which plagues the team and zero help on the way from the minors. the team, the player, and even the fans would all be better off right now had STL done as I originally advised long ago.

[Melville]

No. Not this year. This is the year to see how players develop and settle in to roles given patience. We are not winning squat this year.

If Herrera is average defensively at catcher then he is one heck of an asset due to his offense. If he shows after a consistent run of catching this year that he is an extreme liability behind the plate, then you find him a new position or trade him.

Agreed.

While Herrera is a nice DH option here and there, it’s too early to define him as one just yet.

(Unless he starts to really stink it up at catcher and/or pitchers strongly prefer Pages/pozo)

He should have been moved to outfield 2 years ago as I was first to understand and advise 2 years ago.
That is where his RH bat is needed.

[Melville]

Could that be the most prudent way to utilize what Herrera does best, hit? And stay away from where he is suspect. Especially, considering what the other catchers bring. As well as looking ahead to the catchers coming along in the organization.

That would require keeping Pages, Pozo, and Herrera on the active roster - which is not practical.

Your thought process assumes it's better to keep Burleson or Baker at DH. No.
And do you think Herrera should remain a catcher (not what the Cards think - what YOU think)?

I think Ivan is a DH. He's bad at blocking and framing, and for God's sake, after going 0 for 7 in caught stealing so far this year and only 4 out of 59 last year, it's become obvious he's not a legit catcher.

This year(small sample size), Herrera coverts 43.2% of balls off the strike zone in to strikes. Pozo 41.9%. Pages 44%. The league leader is JC Escara at 54.2%. The Cardinals catchers framing has accounted for 1 loss net run so far this season.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catcher_ ... r&sort=5,1

There is also very little difference in the catcher block rate between Herrera, Pozo, and Pages. Actually right now Herrera is charting a little better than the other 2.
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderbo ... ction=desc

Throwing, now this is a valid one and oner where we need to see at least moderate improvement on from Herrera. His arm strength rates low, so he will need to improve pop times and exchanges to improve. This is possible. For perspective though, most elite throwing catchers save about 2 runs a year on an average from their throwing. Top arm strength is Dillon Dingler at 85.8. Herrera is 51 at 75.2. Top exchange time is Escara at .9. Herrera is at .64(tied with Pages) ranking 35. The average sprint speed of runners trying to steal against Dingler is 29.3 ranking him 1 in this category. The average against Herrera is .64 ranking him 46th(Pages is 53rd).
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderbo ... ction=desc

In conclusion, I know it is CT popular to rage on Herrera's defense, but the defensive differences between him and Pages/Pozo is miniscule compared to the offensive difference in favor of Herrera.

Put Herrera at catcher and see how he grows this year.

Herrera was worth -13 defensive runs over 1200 inning last year.
This year, he is trending at -21.
That puts him on track for -34 combined and his trajectory is getting worse, not better.
Pages is +4 over the same time frame.
That pits Pages on track to be +38 between the two - which is a huge difference.
Herrera's arm is abysmal - having caught just 4 of 66 attempted base stealers over that time frame (at a time when the stolen base has seen a resurgence in strategic importance in the game).
He is throwing out 6% of runners when MLB average is 21%.
Pages has nailed 21% - exactly MLB average.
Finally, Herrera has been a professional catcher for 9 seasons.
Any hope that he will improve defensively is nonsense at this point.
He should have been moved to another position 2 years age when I was first to understand and propose it.

[rockondlouie]

Only been suggested by a handful of us for a long time.

[Geo Barnett]

I'm sure he will in one of his dopey lineup changes.

[Futuregm2]

Could that be the most prudent way to utilize what Herrera does best, hit? And stay away from where he is suspect. Especially, considering what the other catchers bring. As well as looking ahead to the catchers coming along in the organization.

That would require keeping Pages, Pozo, and Herrera on the active roster - which is not practical.

Why is it not practical? Send down Baker when Herrera comes back. He doesn’t bring much to the roster and is 4 for 28 over his last 34 PA. He has a career .327 SLG% now.