2019 2025

[Snuggyfresh]

I think this blues team is better than 2019

What do u think

[Hooking]

I do not think they are better than the 2019 team.
Bouwmeester and Pietranenglo alone are better than any D the Blues have now.

Coaching and Goalie are equal to me.

Offense I think is better with this team though.

2019 team had more swagger though with Maroon and Steen. This team does have some good chemistry though.

Should have some really fun games coming up.

[dhsux]

I think this blues team is better than 2019

What do u think

Going into the play offs in '19 you could have asked some kind of similar question obviously not exact comparison but similar to a comparison team of the past and you would get all the answers your question here and now is going to produce.

NO

But this team does not have the benefit of the '19 team, which ran the gauntlet and won the Cup. That benefit gives them cred that this team cannot possibly hope to earn without....running the gauntlet and winning a Cup.

The odds here are long and hard.....as big a fan as I am how can I make a case they are as good as a team that won the Cup?

Can they win this '25 Cup?

Yes they can. But until they do....they are not as good as the '19 team no way no how.

[dtkblueshockey]

I do not think they are better than the 2019 team.
Bouwmeester and Pietranenglo alone are better than any D the Blues have now.

Coaching and Goalie are equal to me.

Offense I think is better with this team though.

2019 team had more swagger though with Maroon and Steen. This team does have some good chemistry though.

Should have some really fun games coming up.

I think the D corps as a whole is stronger than 2019. I feel like the skill level across the bottom six is worse than 2019. Goaltending is about equivalent. Coaching is likely equivalent.

The Blues are playing just as well as they were in 2019. Let's see what happens.

[Old_Goat]

I think this blues team is better than 2019

What do u think

I just think the fact that this question and comparison are being taken into consideration is a beautiful thing.
I'm looking forward to a long wait to get the final answer.

[LGB73]

The only area this team is better at is offensive skill and not but much. In everything else, the 2019 was better.

[PM_123]

I do not think they are better than the 2019 team.
Bouwmeester and Pietranenglo alone are better than any D the Blues have now.

Coaching and Goalie are equal to me.

Offense I think is better with this team though.

2019 team had more swagger though with Maroon and Steen. This team does have some good chemistry though.

Should have some really fun games coming up.

You might be right about Pietrangelo, but I disagree on Bouwmeester.
There are 3-4 Dmen on the current team that have better numbers than Bouwmeester.

[HighStick]

19 was a fluke. Army made some great moves over the summer, I think there were 9 personnel changes that summer and it all came together beautifully but it was a fluke. As proof of that within 2 years the team was mostly disbanded and struggling to keep their head above water. Job went down. Maroon left, Bozak retired, Petro went to Vegas, ROR and Perron left. The leadership was all gone within 2 seasons.

This team is set up for success going into the future more than the '19 team was. I don't think they are Cup contenders right now today but over the next 2/3 years they easily could be. They should be a strong team that has a chance for years to come. It's only going to get better once Krug is off the books too.

[STL fan in MN]

I do not think they are better than the 2019 team.
Bouwmeester and Pietranenglo alone are better than any D the Blues have now.

Coaching and Goalie are equal to me.

Offense I think is better with this team though.

2019 team had more swagger though with Maroon and Steen. This team does have some good chemistry though.

Should have some really fun games coming up.

You might be right about Pietrangelo, but I disagree on Bouwmeester.
There are 3-4 Dmen on the current team that have better numbers than Bouwmeester.

Numbers? Like goals, assists and points? Bouw was a defensive d-man. A one man breakout machine with excellent skating. No, he didn’t contribute much of anything offensively but that’s not how you grade d-men IMO.

To me, the 2025 team isn’t very close to the 2019 team. Offensive firepower is probably about even but the 2019 team had more depth. Schenn was the 2C and is also the 2C now. The 2019 version of Schenn was much better. 2019 Sunny was also much better than 2025 Sunny. Holloway is a big loss. That’d be like removing Schwartz from the 2019 run.

I like the depth of this D group a little better than what we had in 2019 but simply put, we just don’t have a Pietrangelo. I’d argue 2025 Parayko is about on par with 2019 Bouwmeester. The 2019 team had a big 3 of Petro, Bouw and Parayko and then a cobbled together group of Gunnarsson, Dunn, Edmundson and Borts. The 2025 D is deeper but they’ll have to play way over their heads to match what Petro, Bouw and Parayko contributed in 2019.

I give 2019 Binner a slight edge over 2025 Binner but it’s pretty much a wash there.

I consider Monty a slightly better coach than Berube but again, it’s close.

In the end, this is a team that I think will put up a fight but just doesn’t have the horses yet to make a big playoff push yet. But the experience will be good for the young guys for them to grow and hopefully they’ll improve a bit for next season.

[DawgDad]

19 was a fluke. Army made some great moves over the summer, I think there were 9 personnel changes that summer and it all came together beautifully but it was a fluke. As proof of that within 2 years the team was mostly disbanded and struggling to keep their head above water. Job went down. Maroon left, Bozak retired, Petro went to Vegas, ROR and Perron left. The leadership was all gone within 2 seasons.

This team is set up for success going into the future more than the '19 team was. I don't think they are Cup contenders right now today but over the next 2/3 years they easily could be. They should be a strong team that has a chance for years to come. It's only going to get better once Krug is off the books too.

I vehemently disagree with the term "fluke". The proof in the pudding was the way the team started the 19-20 season, they and I believe Boston were the top teams in the league, and the Blues were keeping it going after Tarasenko went down.

It all came apart beginning with JBo going down then in a crash with covid. The Blues got even better results in the 109 point 21-22 season but the team was driven by offense with a far leakier team defense. As all this played out the Blues accumulated playoff disappointments while Cup team players retired, moved on, or headed for free agency to cash in. And there was the Tarasenko drama.

So, the Cup team window really extended through the 21-22 season, a span of four seasons, which isn't bad for a team largely cobbled together with key players from other organizations.

The Cup run certainly was sustained by a series of heroic performances and plays, and fortunate puck bounces. The Dallas Stars can legitimately make a case they came within an inch of being in the Cup Finals. The Bruins could point to the puck bounce that shelved Chara and the Bozak play where he stripped Acciari. Does that constitute "fluke"? No, every Cup winner plays themselves into position to benefit from a fortuitous play or bounce. The Blues grind out three overtimes vs Dallas, overcome a hand-pass non-call loss to the Sharks, and grind out road victories in games 5 and 7 in Boston. There is NOTHING "fluke" about what that team accomplished, they were a team of superior persistence, willpower, discipline, and timely skill.

[BrummerStealsHome]

I think this blues team is better than 2019

What do u think

I think the 2019 team was much better. Still, I think this team has a chance. So many weird and unexpected things can and do happen in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

[HighStick]

19 was a fluke. Army made some great moves over the summer, I think there were 9 personnel changes that summer and it all came together beautifully but it was a fluke. As proof of that within 2 years the team was mostly disbanded and struggling to keep their head above water. Job went down. Maroon left, Bozak retired, Petro went to Vegas, ROR and Perron left. The leadership was all gone within 2 seasons.

This team is set up for success going into the future more than the '19 team was. I don't think they are Cup contenders right now today but over the next 2/3 years they easily could be. They should be a strong team that has a chance for years to come. It's only going to get better once Krug is off the books too.

I vehemently disagree with the term "fluke". The proof in the pudding was the way the team started the 19-20 season, they and I believe Boston were the top teams in the league, and the Blues were keeping it going after Tarasenko went down.

It all came apart beginning with JBo going down then in a crash with covid. The Blues got even better results in the 109 point 21-22 season but the team was driven by offense with a far leakier team defense. As all this played out the Blues accumulated playoff disappointments while Cup team players retired, moved on, or headed for free agency to cash in. And there was the Tarasenko drama.

So, the Cup team window really extended through the 21-22 season, a span of four seasons, which isn't bad for a team largely cobbled together with key players from other organizations.

The Cup run certainly was sustained by a series of heroic performances and plays, and fortunate puck bounces. The Dallas Stars can legitimately make a case they came within an inch of being in the Cup Finals. The Bruins could point to the puck bounce that shelved Chara and the Bozak play where he stripped Acciari. Does that constitute "fluke"? No, every Cup winner plays themselves into position to benefit from a fortuitous play or bounce. The Blues grind out three overtimes vs Dallas, overcome a hand-pass non-call loss to the Sharks, and grind out road victories in games 5 and 7 in Boston. There is NOTHING "fluke" about what that team accomplished, they were a team of superior persistence, willpower, discipline, and timely skill.

For me they were a fluke because rarely does a team (Army) make that many changes over 1 summer and have it all accumulate into a Cup. Army signed ROR 1C, Perron top 6, Bozak 3C and Maroon a top tier tough guy. He also made some smaller changes but those 4 changed the whole chemistry of the team. They already had Petro, JBO, Parayko, Edmundson and Borts. And then you add in the Binny situation.....from 4th on the depth chart to first ever 16 W Cup champ....in his first season in the league.... That's some flukey chit. Nobody was talking about Binnington. Dude was not getting mentioned as an up and comer at the time. That's not going to happen again for a long time. Not to mention the coaching change mid season from Yeo to Berube. To me when you sit back and look at the total picture of everything that had to happen for them to win it all it was a fluke. No matter how good they did the next season that first season together was still a fluke of success.

[DawgDad]

19 was a fluke. Army made some great moves over the summer, I think there were 9 personnel changes that summer and it all came together beautifully but it was a fluke. As proof of that within 2 years the team was mostly disbanded and struggling to keep their head above water. Job went down. Maroon left, Bozak retired, Petro went to Vegas, ROR and Perron left. The leadership was all gone within 2 seasons.

This team is set up for success going into the future more than the '19 team was. I don't think they are Cup contenders right now today but over the next 2/3 years they easily could be. They should be a strong team that has a chance for years to come. It's only going to get better once Krug is off the books too.

I vehemently disagree with the term "fluke". The proof in the pudding was the way the team started the 19-20 season, they and I believe Boston were the top teams in the league, and the Blues were keeping it going after Tarasenko went down.

It all came apart beginning with JBo going down then in a crash with covid. The Blues got even better results in the 109 point 21-22 season but the team was driven by offense with a far leakier team defense. As all this played out the Blues accumulated playoff disappointments while Cup team players retired, moved on, or headed for free agency to cash in. And there was the Tarasenko drama.

So, the Cup team window really extended through the 21-22 season, a span of four seasons, which isn't bad for a team largely cobbled together with key players from other organizations.

The Cup run certainly was sustained by a series of heroic performances and plays, and fortunate puck bounces. The Dallas Stars can legitimately make a case they came within an inch of being in the Cup Finals. The Bruins could point to the puck bounce that shelved Chara and the Bozak play where he stripped Acciari. Does that constitute "fluke"? No, every Cup winner plays themselves into position to benefit from a fortuitous play or bounce. The Blues grind out three overtimes vs Dallas, overcome a hand-pass non-call loss to the Sharks, and grind out road victories in games 5 and 7 in Boston. There is NOTHING "fluke" about what that team accomplished, they were a team of superior persistence, willpower, discipline, and timely skill.

For me they were a fluke because rarely does a team (Army) make that many changes over 1 summer and have it all accumulate into a Cup. Army signed ROR 1C, Perron top 6, Bozak 3C and Maroon a top tier tough guy. He also made some smaller changes but those 4 changed the whole chemistry of the team. They already had Petro, JBO, Parayko, Edmundson and Borts. And then you add in the Binny situation.....from 4th on the depth chart to first ever 16 W Cup champ....in his first season in the league.... That's some flukey chit. Nobody was talking about Binnington. Dude was not getting mentioned as an up and comer at the time. That's not going to happen again for a long time. Not to mention the coaching change mid season from Yeo to Berube. To me when you sit back and look at the total picture of everything that had to happen for them to win it all it was a fluke. No matter how good they did the next season that first season together was still a fluke of success.

We need to agree to disagree, I think we both similarly appreciate what was accomplished.

Army gets attacked ad nauseum around here for reasons I believe are completely undeserved. I don't believe you are a member of that pack, so I want to state that before I launch into this . . .

Army had a goal and a plan. When he saw the 17-18 season succumb to injuries he took the opportunity to dump Stastny and a few others and do an on-the-fly retool over the summer. He added key players who ultimately complimented each other according to plan but they crashed and burned coming out of the gate. Army changed coaches and he subsequently admitted that after Christmas he was ready to blow it all up. I would agree Binnington was a desperate last straw, but he pretty clearly was merely a guy plugging a hole rather than a calculated play. That might be the only concession I would make to "fluke".

Binnington himself was no fluke. Some players he was in a camp with over the prior summer have said they recognized how good he was and how buried he was in the depths of minor league hockey. With Binner the Army plan was loaded for battle.

The similarities with how this season unfolded are astounding. Similarities, not a carbon copy. Clearly Army is retooling to a similar vision of roster construction, step by step. There is a plan, it is being executed, and how far along this team is will soon become apparent. This is all by design. The best designers set themselves up for the Binners, the Bolducs, Snuggerud backfilling for Holloway, for a Fowler, for a timely offer sheet. It's not a fluke.

[callitwhatyouwant]

I really don't see much similarity between the two teams other than the coaching change and both having a big in season run.

The teams as constructed are VASTLY different. The Blues defense is faster than their 2019 counterparts, and they might hold a slight edge if all of them are playing at the top of their game. But that's assuming you get the best version of Parayko/Faulk/Fowler. If you get those 3 cooking, you have a better defense than you did in 2019, but Faulk has regressed a bit from his 2 way game, and we still have to see how fresh Parayko is. But for the most part at best I'd say this is a wash. Bouw and Parayko played a legendary playoff performance that year. Gotta remember, Parayko was receiving votes.

Binner is Binner,

The forward group is where this team is a 180 of that team. With Holloway in the lineup, the speed isn't even close. This team is skillful and speed. They hit people which you could say makes them similar to what the 2019 team did because they hit people. But that 2019 team hit people and wore them down and hurt them. I don't really see that out of this group. They play aggressive because they are playing with speed. But teams couldn't get thru games 6 and 7 vs the Blues. They just wore everyone down. That's not this teams identity. This teams identity is to swarm the other team with fast lines and try to overwhelm them with skillful plays. In the playoffs, generally the 2019 version wins more than the 2025 version unless you can come out of the gate absolutely cooking. But for this team to be electric which is what it would take to make a run, not only do the stars have to show up, but you are going to NEED huge contributions from snuggy and Bolduc. The 4th line on the 2019 team could score. This 4th line is more of a rat style.

[HighStick]

The '19 team had a defense that was light years ahead of this seasons defense. The 19 defense was one of the best in the league. It was the teams strong suit.

[seattleblue]

I do not think they are better than the 2019 team.
Bouwmeester and Pietranenglo alone are better than any D the Blues have now.

Coaching and Goalie are equal to me.

Offense I think is better with this team though.

2019 team had more swagger though with Maroon and Steen. This team does have some good chemistry though.

Should have some really fun games coming up.

You might be right about Pietrangelo, but I disagree on Bouwmeester.
There are 3-4 Dmen on the current team that have better numbers than Bouwmeester.

Numbers? Like goals, assists and points? Bouw was a defensive d-man. A one man breakout machine with excellent skating. No, he didn’t contribute much of anything offensively but that’s not how you grade d-men IMO.

To me, the 2025 team isn’t very close to the 2019 team. Offensive firepower is probably about even but the 2019 team had more depth. Schenn was the 2C and is also the 2C now. The 2019 version of Schenn was much better. 2019 Sunny was also much better than 2025 Sunny. Holloway is a big loss. That’d be like removing Schwartz from the 2019 run.

I like the depth of this D group a little better than what we had in 2019 but simply put, we just don’t have a Pietrangelo. I’d argue 2025 Parayko is about on par with 2019 Bouwmeester. The 2019 team had a big 3 of Petro, Bouw and Parayko and then a cobbled together group of Gunnarsson, Dunn, Edmundson and Borts. The 2025 D is deeper but they’ll have to play way over their heads to match what Petro, Bouw and Parayko contributed in 2019.

I give 2019 Binner a slight edge over 2025 Binner but it’s pretty much a wash there.

I consider Monty a slightly better coach than Berube but again, it’s close.

In the end, this is a team that I think will put up a fight but just doesn’t have the horses yet to make a big playoff push yet. But the experience will be good for the young guys for them to grow and hopefully they’ll improve a bit for next season.

Agree and I too respectfully and vehemently disagree with the idea that 2019 was a fluke. It was a hugely homegrown team that would have absolutely been a disappointment had it not won a Cup in a decade where it had the most regular season wins in the Conf.