Val Kilmer RIP

[Dicktar2023]

Dead at 65.

https://people.com/val-kilmer-dead-65-7502180

[Jackie Chiles]

Just watched Top Secret a week ago.

Plus Real Genius, The Doors, Se7en.

And a pretty good Bstman, too.

[Jackie Chiles]

Just watched Top Secret a week ago.

Plus Real Genius, The Doors, Se7en.

And a pretty good Batman, too.

Oops, not Se7en. What was I thinking.

[3dender]

RIP to a real one... love what he said several years back on I think a reddit AMA about being in Heat:

GngZCJXW4AA5xay.jpg (73.69 KiB) Viewed 177 times

He was in many ways the heart of that brilliant movie, one of my all-time favorites.

On a funnier note the beginning of this passage reminds me of the "Tears in Rain" speech from Blade Runner... imagining him wrapping up the whole thing with "All that will be lost, like tears in rain..."

[Pink Freud]

A rundown of Kilmer's best roles: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/02/movi ... =url-share

He was also good in the terrific "Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang", starring Robert Downey Jr. as a thief who is cast to be a movie thief, and the adorable Michelle Monaghan (sighhh) prancing through MacArthur Park at night in a Shortie Santa suit (whoa!).

[edwin drood]

The Iceman Goeth

[FrankTheTank]

I went and saw Real Genius with my parents in the movie theatre. I loved that movie! He was so good in it. The dude who lived in Mitch's closet (Lazlo) was Jon Gries (Uncle Rico) with hair! The Doors was one of my favorite movies growing up, I was a huge Doors fan in HS. Willow was another underrated gem. He is right up there for best performances that didn't get nominated for his Doc Holliday in Tombstone.

"You know, Ed, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it."

[Dicktar2023]

The Iceman Goeth

[Dicktar2023]

I went and saw Real Genius with my parents in the movie theatre. I loved that movie! He was so good in it. The dude who lived in Mitch's closet (Lazlo) was Jon Gries (Uncle Rico) with hair! The Doors was one of my favorite movies growing up, I was a huge Doors fan in HS. Willow was another underrated gem. He is right up there for best performances that didn't get nominated for his Doc Holliday in Tombstone.

"You know, Ed, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it."

I was reading the Metacritic page about Tombstone today. It's funny how mixed the reviews were. 30+ years later, is there any movie as universally beloved? I'm not sure I've ever met a person who didn't like Tombstone.

[3dender]

I went and saw Real Genius with my parents in the movie theatre. I loved that movie! He was so good in it. The dude who lived in Mitch's closet (Lazlo) was Jon Gries (Uncle Rico) with hair! The Doors was one of my favorite movies growing up, I was a huge Doors fan in HS. Willow was another underrated gem. He is right up there for best performances that didn't get nominated for his Doc Holliday in Tombstone.

"You know, Ed, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it."

I was reading the Metacritic page about Tombstone today. It's funny how mixed the reviews were. 30+ years later, is there any movie as universally beloved? I'm not sure I've ever met a person who didn't like Tombstone.

I just rewatched it out of respect for the departed and my opinion is the same as it was when I saw it as a kid. Apart from Kilmer, good pacing and an interesting subject it is a mess. The non-Holliday dialogue is bad, Russell is miscast and acting terribly, and the whole thing is about as subtle as a sledgehammer.

Since I first saw both versions I always wished they could have swapped Kilmer (and his dialogue) in for Quaid from the Costner version, while cutting it by like 45 minutes. That would have been a true masterpiece. The production value of the Costner version was just in a different league.

But man, Kilmer is truly magnificent isn't he? Almost the same tier as Ledger's Joker in terms of taking over a film as supporting actor.

Oh and Shawshank is more beloved than Tombstone after bombing much harder at the box office (though not critically iirc).

[BarkCampbell]

I went and saw Real Genius with my parents in the movie theatre. I loved that movie! He was so good in it. The dude who lived in Mitch's closet (Lazlo) was Jon Gries (Uncle Rico) with hair! The Doors was one of my favorite movies growing up, I was a huge Doors fan in HS. Willow was another underrated gem. He is right up there for best performances that didn't get nominated for his Doc Holliday in Tombstone.

"You know, Ed, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it."

I was reading the Metacritic page about Tombstone today. It's funny how mixed the reviews were. 30+ years later, is there any movie as universally beloved? I'm not sure I've ever met a person who didn't like Tombstone.

I just rewatched it out of respect for the departed and my opinion is the same as it was when I saw it as a kid. Apart from Kilmer, good pacing and an interesting subject it is a mess. The non-Holliday dialogue is bad, Russell is miscast and acting terribly, and the whole thing is about as subtle as a sledgehammer.

Since I first saw both versions I always wished they could have swapped Kilmer (and his dialogue) in for Quaid from the Costner version, while cutting it by like 45 minutes. That would have been a true masterpiece. The production value of the Costner version was just in a different league.

But man, Kilmer is truly magnificent isn't he? Almost the same tier as Ledger's Joker in terms of taking over a film as supporting actor.

Oh and Shawshank is more beloved than Tombstone after bombing much harder at the box office (though not critically iirc).

The love story of Russell and the actress is, in fact, lame, but the scene with Billy Bob Thornton and his not-bluffing scene with Stephen Lang are both classics.
Kilmer's Holliday role is fantastic. Dude was robbed of a nomination.

[Dicktar2023]

I went and saw Real Genius with my parents in the movie theatre. I loved that movie! He was so good in it. The dude who lived in Mitch's closet (Lazlo) was Jon Gries (Uncle Rico) with hair! The Doors was one of my favorite movies growing up, I was a huge Doors fan in HS. Willow was another underrated gem. He is right up there for best performances that didn't get nominated for his Doc Holliday in Tombstone.

"You know, Ed, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it."

I was reading the Metacritic page about Tombstone today. It's funny how mixed the reviews were. 30+ years later, is there any movie as universally beloved? I'm not sure I've ever met a person who didn't like Tombstone.

I just rewatched it out of respect for the departed and my opinion is the same as it was when I saw it as a kid. Apart from Kilmer, good pacing and an interesting subject it is a mess. The non-Holliday dialogue is bad, Russell is miscast and acting terribly, and the whole thing is about as subtle as a sledgehammer.

Since I first saw both versions I always wished they could have swapped Kilmer (and his dialogue) in for Quaid from the Costner version, while cutting it by like 45 minutes. That would have been a true masterpiece. The production value of the Costner version was just in a different league.

But man, Kilmer is truly magnificent isn't he? Almost the same tier as Ledger's Joker in terms of taking over a film as supporting actor.

Oh and Shawshank is more beloved than Tombstone after bombing much harder at the box office (though not critically iirc).

Well, that makes one person.

Actually....every time I watch Tombstone, I'm struck by how not-great a lot of it is--especially the stuff with Delany and Zane. (I've probably seen that movie 20+ times and there's always WAY more of Delany than I remember.) But that's the thing...when I look back on it, I don't think of those scenes. All the Doc and Wyatt stuff is so good, that's all I can remember.

Dark Knight is a good comparison. Right now, when you think of that movie, do you remember that it has an apropos-of-nothing 45-minute prologue where Batman goes to China? I bet you don't. Mostly thanks to Ledger.

But both of those movies are genre storytelling at its best. The moments when melodrama works and really connects emotionally just erase the memory of the ten other times it fizzled, or the subplots that went nowhere.

[bud white]

I went and saw Real Genius with my parents in the movie theatre. I loved that movie! He was so good in it. The dude who lived in Mitch's closet (Lazlo) was Jon Gries (Uncle Rico) with hair! The Doors was one of my favorite movies growing up, I was a huge Doors fan in HS. Willow was another underrated gem. He is right up there for best performances that didn't get nominated for his Doc Holliday in Tombstone.

"You know, Ed, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it."

"Oh, Johnny, I forgot you were there. You may go now."

[3dender]

I went and saw Real Genius with my parents in the movie theatre. I loved that movie! He was so good in it. The dude who lived in Mitch's closet (Lazlo) was Jon Gries (Uncle Rico) with hair! The Doors was one of my favorite movies growing up, I was a huge Doors fan in HS. Willow was another underrated gem. He is right up there for best performances that didn't get nominated for his Doc Holliday in Tombstone.

"You know, Ed, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it."

I was reading the Metacritic page about Tombstone today. It's funny how mixed the reviews were. 30+ years later, is there any movie as universally beloved? I'm not sure I've ever met a person who didn't like Tombstone.

I just rewatched it out of respect for the departed and my opinion is the same as it was when I saw it as a kid. Apart from Kilmer, good pacing and an interesting subject it is a mess. The non-Holliday dialogue is bad, Russell is miscast and acting terribly, and the whole thing is about as subtle as a sledgehammer.

Since I first saw both versions I always wished they could have swapped Kilmer (and his dialogue) in for Quaid from the Costner version, while cutting it by like 45 minutes. That would have been a true masterpiece. The production value of the Costner version was just in a different league.

But man, Kilmer is truly magnificent isn't he? Almost the same tier as Ledger's Joker in terms of taking over a film as supporting actor.

Oh and Shawshank is more beloved than Tombstone after bombing much harder at the box office (though not critically iirc).

Well, that makes one person.

Actually....every time I watch Tombstone, I'm struck by how not-great a lot of it is--especially the stuff with Delany and Zane. (I've probably seen that movie 20+ times and there's always WAY more of Delany than I remember.) But that's the thing...when I look back on it, I don't think of those scenes. All the Doc and Wyatt stuff is so good, that's all I can remember.

Dark Knight is a good comparison. Right now, when you think of that movie, do you remember that it has an apropos-of-nothing 45-minute prologue where Batman goes to China? I bet you don't. Mostly thanks to Ledger.

But both of those movies are genre storytelling at its best. The moments when melodrama works and really connects emotionally just erase the memory of the ten other times it fizzled, or the subplots that went nowhere.

Yup, Kilmer:Tombstone :: Ledger:DarkKnight... I also think TDK is way overrated.

I guess it nevertheless is one of the best westerns of the last 30 years... but I think that speaks more to Clint hammering the final nail in that genre's coffin with Unforgiven.

Also, if we're just going for popcorn period westerns I'll take the corny Maverick over Tombstone every day of the week... far more entertaining to me. My list of best westerns since Tombstone:

1. Unforgiven
.
.
.
.
2. Maverick
3. Assassination of Jesse James
4. The Proposition
5. Tombstone

If we add in neo-westerns I'd put Hell or High Water at #4.

[BarkCampbell]

I guess it nevertheless is one of the best westerns of the last 30 years... but I think that speaks more to Clint hammering the final nail in that genre's coffin with Unforgiven.

Also, if we're just going for popcorn period westerns I'll take the corny Maverick over Tombstone every day of the week... far more entertaining to me. My list of best westerns since Tombstone:

1. Unforgiven
.
.
.
.
2. Maverick
3. Assassination of Jesse James
4. The Proposition
5. Tombstone

If we add in neo-westerns I'd put Hell or High Water at #4.

Kudos to you for giving a nod to Mel Gibson. Maverick is fun entertainment. And yes, Unforgiven is definitely number 1.

[bud white]

I guess it nevertheless is one of the best westerns of the last 30 years... but I think that speaks more to Clint hammering the final nail in that genre's coffin with Unforgiven.

Also, if we're just going for popcorn period westerns I'll take the corny Maverick over Tombstone every day of the week... far more entertaining to me. My list of best westerns since Tombstone:

1. Unforgiven
.
.
.
.
2. Maverick
3. Assassination of Jesse James
4. The Proposition
5. Tombstone

If we add in neo-westerns I'd put Hell or High Water at #4.

Kudos to you for giving a nod to Mel Gibson. Maverick is fun entertainment. And yes, Unforgiven is definitely number 1.

"Jessie James" is just some fascinating film making - especially the cinematography. I really liked using the leaded glass to film through.

Absolutely agree on "Unforgiven"

Now, when Mr. Hackman passed, I rewatched "The Quick and the Dead". Sam Raimi directed it. IIRC, it was originally a graphic novel and certainly has the "Raimi look" to it. I enjoyed revisiting it. Lots of talent in that flick - Sharon Stone, Russell Crowe, DiCaprio, Hackman ...