Tanking Cardinals to move them?

[earp]

Why it feels similar to the Rams situation

1. Years of declining on‑field performance
The Rams slowly deteriorated before leaving.

The Cardinals have had multiple disappointing seasons and a sense of drift.

2. Frustration with ownership/front office
Rams fans felt ignored by ownership.

Cardinals fans often feel the same about the DeWitt/Mozeliak era.

3. A sense of “lowered expectations”
Rams fans were told to be patient while the product got worse.

Cardinals fans hear similar messaging about “sustained success” while the roster underperforms.

4. Lack of big‑market aggression
Rams ownership stopped investing like a team trying to win.

Cardinals ownership is often criticized for being too conservative financially.

[LCA1951]

St Louis Hawks. St Louis Football Cardinals. St Louis Browns. St Louis Rams. Spirits. and Saskatoon. Money talks and so does the Lack Thereof.

[CCard]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

[ecleme22]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

[JuanAgosto]

As to Donovan….

He’s a nice player, but would have been of no value on what is going to be a very weak team in 26 and 27

and then he’s a free agent

Trading him brought prospects that the club will control for many years…

The Cards are not going to Austin…..

Nashville or Charlotte most likely…

Dream on, dummy. Those cities may get teams eventually, but they won't get the Cardinal franchise.

I would agree in a sensible world the Cardinals would never leave StL. But MLB no longer makes decisions based on sense. Its all about money. MLB could charge a city much more for a historic franchise than an expansion team. Greedy owners would salivate. And ol Billy DeWitt would probably be on board if he thought it would get him a few easy bucks.

If it’s all about money, they stay in STL and pressure Dewitt to seek if he and his group aren’t interested in spending appropriately. Moving them to any other city would be dumb.

Would it? DeWitt could pull a Kroenke, point to dwindling attendance, and an inability to secure a good TV deal. MLB sees massive $$ with what they could charge to award an historic team to a thriving city.

He’s invested in BPV. He isn’t pulling a Kroenke. Sorry, this is just a completely different situation and I think it’s foolish to think they would move out of the STL area.

I agree it is highly improbable. But not impossible. He could always build a BPV in a new city. And sell the one in StL.

[Bomber1]

Why it feels similar to the Rams situation

1. Years of declining on‑field performance
The Rams slowly deteriorated before leaving.

The Cardinals have had multiple disappointing seasons and a sense of drift.

2. Frustration with ownership/front office
Rams fans felt ignored by ownership.

Cardinals fans often feel the same about the DeWitt/Mozeliak era.

3. A sense of “lowered expectations”
Rams fans were told to be patient while the product got worse.

Cardinals fans hear similar messaging about “sustained success” while the roster underperforms.

4. Lack of big‑market aggression
Rams ownership stopped investing like a team trying to win.

Cardinals ownership is often criticized for being too conservative financially.

No matter how you try to paint your arguments the Cardinals are not relocating.

[Bomber1]

As to Donovan….

He’s a nice player, but would have been of no value on what is going to be a very weak team in 26 and 27

and then he’s a free agent

Trading him brought prospects that the club will control for many years…

The Cards are not going to Austin…..

Nashville or Charlotte most likely…

Dream on, dummy. Those cities may get teams eventually, but they won't get the Cardinal franchise.

I would agree in a sensible world the Cardinals would never leave StL. But MLB no longer makes decisions based on sense. Its all about money. MLB could charge a city much more for a historic franchise than an expansion team. Greedy owners would salivate. And ol Billy DeWitt would probably be on board if he thought it would get him a few easy bucks.

If it’s all about money, they stay in STL and pressure Dewitt to seek if he and his group aren’t interested in spending appropriately. Moving them to any other city would be dumb.

Would it? DeWitt could pull a Kroenke, point to dwindling attendance, and an inability to secure a good TV deal. MLB sees massive $$ with what they could charge to award an historic team to a thriving city.

He’s invested in BPV. He isn’t pulling a Kroenke. Sorry, this is just a completely different situation and I think it’s foolish to think they would move out of the STL area.

I agree it is highly improbable. But not impossible. He could always build a BPV in a new city. And sell the one in StL.

Yes because without a team at Busch, BPV will always be packed, and all of the apartments will always be rented.
Without the Cardinals BPV would become a ghost town.

[JuanAgosto]

As to Donovan….

He’s a nice player, but would have been of no value on what is going to be a very weak team in 26 and 27

and then he’s a free agent

Trading him brought prospects that the club will control for many years…

The Cards are not going to Austin…..

Nashville or Charlotte most likely…

Dream on, dummy. Those cities may get teams eventually, but they won't get the Cardinal franchise.

I would agree in a sensible world the Cardinals would never leave StL. But MLB no longer makes decisions based on sense. Its all about money. MLB could charge a city much more for a historic franchise than an expansion team. Greedy owners would salivate. And ol Billy DeWitt would probably be on board if he thought it would get him a few easy bucks.

If it’s all about money, they stay in STL and pressure Dewitt to seek if he and his group aren’t interested in spending appropriately. Moving them to any other city would be dumb.

Would it? DeWitt could pull a Kroenke, point to dwindling attendance, and an inability to secure a good TV deal. MLB sees massive $$ with what they could charge to award an historic team to a thriving city.

He’s invested in BPV. He isn’t pulling a Kroenke. Sorry, this is just a completely different situation and I think it’s foolish to think they would move out of the STL area.

I agree it is highly improbable. But not impossible. He could always build a BPV in a new city. And sell the one in StL.

Yes because without a team at Busch, BPV will always be packed, and all of the apartments will always be rented.
Without the Cardinals BPV would become a ghost town.

There is such a thing as revamping the area. The place draws crowds during events outside of baseball.

[CCard]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

[ScotchMIrish]

Cardinals aren't moving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropoli ... tical_area

According to that list St Louis metro area ranks 23rd in population at 2.8 million.

Miami ranks 6th at 6.4 million and the Marlins don't draw flies.

Tampa ranks 17th at 3.4 million and they draw even fewer flies.

St Louis has baseball fans. The Cardinals aren't moving.

Milwaukee ranks 40th. They have baseball fans. They aren't moving.

[ecleme22]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

[CCard]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

[ecleme22]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

[CCard]

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

[ecleme22]

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

[CCard]

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

You know there are younger vets. Keep learning.

Like?

Do you think all vets are old? Common sense, find some.

Read my post again. I said the cards traded older vets, which they did.

Then you infer that, why should they spend money on vets, which is your way of saying all vets should be shipped out and avoided. Dishonesty is not very becoming.

My post satirically looked at your inabilty to understand what a rebuild is:


“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…


I guess your reading comprehension isn’t great either…

You're just arguing for the sake of argument. Nobody can be that dense. Let me spell it out for you. Follow closely as you can. Every team in baseball is in a constant state of "rebuild". Even the Dodgers are rebuilding to some extent. The difference lies in degree's of rebuild. Teams that tank are rebuilding but to the very fullest degree with no care about the upcoming season and their fan base. This state can and does span years. Not a very nice thing to do to the fans. Those that "rebuild" but with their eye on contention also are much more palatable and this is where most baseball teams fall. They want to "rebuild" and make their dollars effective but they also want to put a product on the field that will draw an audience and have some chance of doing something special. Now, people like you want the full tank job because you think it's a guaranteed way to success. History has shown that there can be some success after long periods of suffering. But even more often it just results in teams perpetually "rebuilding", especially after what high talent they draft become arbitration eligible. They essentially become feeder teams for the higher payroll teams, which is what has been happening for a long time now and could become what the Cardinals identify as. Keep learning.

Most successful teams always have their eye to tomorrow.

But sometimes teams need to rebuild/reset. While that happens, there is no point in spending big money on FA.

Every team in a rebuild lowers their payroll during the transition…

So in your eyes it's okay to not try to win. Nobody's saying they can't trade older expensive players for some prospects, but gutting the payroll serves only one purpose, to keep money in the Billionaire owners pocket. That's just wrong and to be honest that's one of the worst things about capitalism and America right now. A lot of have nots and a few haves. This is why I don't begrudge a ball player his millions. Because a millionaire could fall out of a billionaires pocket of every day and he'd still be a billionaire a year later..