STLtoday.com

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑31 May 2025 08:23 am

TheJackBurton wrote: ↑18 May 2025 21:15 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑18 May 2025 16:28 pm

desertrat23 wrote: ↑18 May 2025 14:06 pm

TheJackBurton wrote: ↑18 May 2025 10:25 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 23:22 pm

TheJackBurton wrote: ↑17 May 2025 22:59 pm

desertrat23 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 22:10 pm

dhsux wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:40 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

I would assume the best fans in baseball would still be with their team, thick and thin.

Right?

“Best” means “smartest,” not “most blindly loyal.”

To answer the question, if the team keeps playing well and the old, white, Safe Charles crowd realizes that traveling downtown isn’t an immediate death sentence, the stands will fill.

Ummm people have been shot and killed leaving the Cards games, you know this correct? I don't blame anyone for having trepidation when it comes to going downtown.

Until they make a safety a top priority I don't blame anyone not wanting to go.

I would be very interested to read a story about someone being shot and killed leaving a Cardinals game. And so would you.

Again, parking garage attached to the stadium. I promise you’ll live through the experience and no homeless person will talk to you for more than a second or two.

My apologies, shot and paralyzed, because that is much better

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/other ... inals-game

No, it’s tragic. But is a tragic story like that limited to St. Louis? That could happen in any city in America. Are fans in other cities afraid to go downtown because of a five-year-old incident? And again, walking through the Arch grounds. At night. In a group of two. Does that sound like smart situational awareness to anyone? Of course not. Does it excuse or justify a tragic event? Not at all. But we all have a responsibility to minimize risk and be smart when in any city. Walking through a dark park after a game to save a few bucks on parking is not what I would call smart.

And mysteriously it did not affect attendance for the next 4 years. It took multiple bad teams and the ownership cutting 20% of the payroll with no free agent additions. It wasn’t about suburban panty waste.

oh my gosh those suburban [kittycats] right?

No, that was only the event, and yes many people did still attend.

The downtown as a whole however has multiple businesses leave, money not come back, development slowed, and of course the continued top 5 ranking of most dangerous city in the country (yes I know a lot of it has to do with the median count)

Now if I gave you the option of living in North St. Louis or just North County, would you be a panty waste for choosing North County or just making a safer more logical choice?

We aren’t talking about moving to North City or North County, though. We are talking about attending baseball games downtown, which was never a problem, despite crime statistics and the incident you described. The problem started when management stopped investing in the team.

I never read so much nonsense in my life.

thetank2 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 09:36 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑31 May 2025 08:23 am

TheJackBurton wrote: ↑18 May 2025 21:15 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑18 May 2025 16:28 pm

desertrat23 wrote: ↑18 May 2025 14:06 pm

TheJackBurton wrote: ↑18 May 2025 10:25 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 23:22 pm

TheJackBurton wrote: ↑17 May 2025 22:59 pm

desertrat23 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 22:10 pm

dhsux wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:40 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

I would assume the best fans in baseball would still be with their team, thick and thin.

Right?

“Best” means “smartest,” not “most blindly loyal.”

To answer the question, if the team keeps playing well and the old, white, Safe Charles crowd realizes that traveling downtown isn’t an immediate death sentence, the stands will fill.

Ummm people have been shot and killed leaving the Cards games, you know this correct? I don't blame anyone for having trepidation when it comes to going downtown.

Until they make a safety a top priority I don't blame anyone not wanting to go.

I would be very interested to read a story about someone being shot and killed leaving a Cardinals game. And so would you.

Again, parking garage attached to the stadium. I promise you’ll live through the experience and no homeless person will talk to you for more than a second or two.

My apologies, shot and paralyzed, because that is much better

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/other ... inals-game

No, it’s tragic. But is a tragic story like that limited to St. Louis? That could happen in any city in America. Are fans in other cities afraid to go downtown because of a five-year-old incident? And again, walking through the Arch grounds. At night. In a group of two. Does that sound like smart situational awareness to anyone? Of course not. Does it excuse or justify a tragic event? Not at all. But we all have a responsibility to minimize risk and be smart when in any city. Walking through a dark park after a game to save a few bucks on parking is not what I would call smart.

And mysteriously it did not affect attendance for the next 4 years. It took multiple bad teams and the ownership cutting 20% of the payroll with no free agent additions. It wasn’t about suburban panty waste.

oh my gosh those suburban [kittycats] right?

No, that was only the event, and yes many people did still attend.

The downtown as a whole however has multiple businesses leave, money not come back, development slowed, and of course the continued top 5 ranking of most dangerous city in the country (yes I know a lot of it has to do with the median count)

Now if I gave you the option of living in North St. Louis or just North County, would you be a panty waste for choosing North County or just making a safer more logical choice?

We aren’t talking about moving to North City or North County, though. We are talking about attending baseball games downtown, which was never a problem, despite crime statistics and the incident you described. The problem started when management stopped investing in the team.

I never read so much nonsense in my life.

Which part? The part where going to games downtown is largely safe (it is), or that management/ownership stopped investing in the team (they did)?

Melville wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:20 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

A different downtown and an economy not plaguing consumers with a high cost of goods and services might help as well.

this is correct. we used to have a split of season tickets with friends.
We gave them up within 2 years, the pure hassle of:
-driving to the stadium
-parking
-waiting in a long line to enter the stadium
-waiting in a 5 minute line for the bathroom, 20 minutes for my wife
-waiting in line for an entire inning we missed to get food and drink, then spending 50 dollars for 2 drinks and 2 hot dogs
-waiting in line to exit the stadium
-hoping to avoid being harassed by beggars while walking to our car
-hoping our windows aren't broken (happened once)
-waiting 30 minutes just to exit the parking lot
-driving another 35 minutes home

hard pass

Covid fan cutouts?

Adam2 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 09:55 am

Melville wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:20 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

A different downtown and an economy not plaguing consumers with a high cost of goods and services might help as well.

this is correct. we used to have a split of season tickets with friends.
We gave them up within 2 years, the pure hassle of:
-driving to the stadium
-parking
-waiting in a long line to enter the stadium
-waiting in a 5 minute line for the bathroom, 20 minutes for my wife
-waiting in line for an entire inning we missed to get food and drink, then spending 50 dollars for 2 drinks and 2 hot dogs
-waiting in line to exit the stadium
-hoping to avoid being harassed by beggars while walking to our car
-hoping our windows aren't broken (happened once)
-waiting 30 minutes just to exit the parking lot
-driving another 35 minutes home

hard pass

You sound like a blast at parties.

desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:17 am

Adam2 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 09:55 am

Melville wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:20 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

A different downtown and an economy not plaguing consumers with a high cost of goods and services might help as well.

this is correct. we used to have a split of season tickets with friends.
We gave them up within 2 years, the pure hassle of:
-driving to the stadium
-parking
-waiting in a long line to enter the stadium
-waiting in a 5 minute line for the bathroom, 20 minutes for my wife
-waiting in line for an entire inning we missed to get food and drink, then spending 50 dollars for 2 drinks and 2 hot dogs
-waiting in line to exit the stadium
-hoping to avoid being harassed by beggars while walking to our car
-hoping our windows aren't broken (happened once)
-waiting 30 minutes just to exit the parking lot
-driving another 35 minutes home

hard pass

You sound like a blast at parties.

I am, we usually host

Chicken or the egg. Wait until they play up to your high expectations to cheer for them, or cheer for them to play up to your high expectations?

Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:27 am

Chicken or the egg. Wait until they play up to your high expectations to cheer for them, or cheer for them to play up to your high expectations?

Again, it’s not about the players. OWNERSHIP has the responsibility to meet expectations, and THEN the fans show up. It’s “if you build it, they will come,” not “if they come, we will build it.”

Attendance is a lagging indicator and ownership has to make the first move. Citing 20-year-old accomplishments isn’t the first move.

desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:32 am

Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:27 am

Chicken or the egg. Wait until they play up to your high expectations to cheer for them, or cheer for them to play up to your high expectations?

Again, it’s not about the players. OWNERSHIP has the responsibility to meet expectations, and THEN the fans show up. It’s “if you build it, they will come,” not “if they come, we will build it.”

Attendance is a lagging indicator and ownership has to make the first move. Citing 20-year-old accomplishments isn’t the first move.

Not 20 years ago. Right now. Playing well.

Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:35 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:32 am

Cranny wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:27 am

Chicken or the egg. Wait until they play up to your high expectations to cheer for them, or cheer for them to play up to your high expectations?

Again, it’s not about the players. OWNERSHIP has the responsibility to meet expectations, and THEN the fans show up. It’s “if you build it, they will come,” not “if they come, we will build it.”

Attendance is a lagging indicator and ownership has to make the first move. Citing 20-year-old accomplishments isn’t the first move.

Not 20 years ago. Right now. Playing well.

Fair, but again, it’s a lagging indicator. A solid move at the deadline sends a clear message and gets people to the ballpark.

peterman'srealitytour wrote: ↑17 May 2025 22:18 pm

dhsux wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:40 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

I would assume the best fans in baseball would still be with their team, thick and thin.

Right?

Bad premise. The best fans in baseball didn’t abandon their team. They abandoned an owner who that stopped investing in his product and an incompetent POBO.

I suspect you are correct. I still watch some on tv and I survey this board, but a lot of my enthusiasm is gone. Maybe my age has something to do with that too.

They could try getting fatter fans to fill the seats.

Adam2 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 09:55 am

Melville wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:20 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

A different downtown and an economy not plaguing consumers with a high cost of goods and services might help as well.

this is correct. we used to have a split of season tickets with friends.
We gave them up within 2 years, the pure hassle of:
-driving to the stadium
-parking
-waiting in a long line to enter the stadium
-waiting in a 5 minute line for the bathroom, 20 minutes for my wife
-waiting in line for an entire inning we missed to get food and drink, then spending 50 dollars for 2 drinks and 2 hot dogs
-waiting in line to exit the stadium
-hoping to avoid being harassed by beggars while walking to our car
-hoping our windows aren't broken (happened once)
-waiting 30 minutes just to exit the parking lot
-driving another 35 minutes home

hard pass

Absolutely perfect explanation.

60 year Cardinal fan wrote: ↑31 May 2025 10:47 am

peterman'srealitytour wrote: ↑17 May 2025 22:18 pm

dhsux wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:40 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

I would assume the best fans in baseball would still be with their team, thick and thin.

Right?

Bad premise. The best fans in baseball didn’t abandon their team. They abandoned an owner who that stopped investing in his product and an incompetent POBO.

I suspect you are correct. I still watch some on tv and I survey this board, but a lot of my enthusiasm is gone. Maybe my age has something to do with that too.

Correct.
Fans were willing to pay for a good product.
And some for a mediocre product.
Beginning in 2022 some began to realize they were being conned and taken for granted - with me, of course, being first to provide that education here.
In 2023, the inevitable collapse of their operating model took place exactly as I had predicted - right on time and right on the field in full view of all.
The exodus of began.
It tuned into a massive flight to freedom in 2024.
And now, millions of people within several hours drive of STL have concluded the time, the hassle, the risk, the expense of going to the ballpark is not worth it.
Many will not be back.
New fans will need to be recruited to fill in the shortfall.
It is going to take the organization time and effort and investment to fill those seats.

Melville wrote: ↑31 May 2025 12:33 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 09:55 am

Melville wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:20 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

A different downtown and an economy not plaguing consumers with a high cost of goods and services might help as well.

this is correct. we used to have a split of season tickets with friends.
We gave them up within 2 years, the pure hassle of:
-driving to the stadium
-parking
-waiting in a long line to enter the stadium
-waiting in a 5 minute line for the bathroom, 20 minutes for my wife
-waiting in line for an entire inning we missed to get food and drink, then spending 50 dollars for 2 drinks and 2 hot dogs
-waiting in line to exit the stadium
-hoping to avoid being harassed by beggars while walking to our car
-hoping our windows aren't broken (happened once)
-waiting 30 minutes just to exit the parking lot
-driving another 35 minutes home

hard pass

Absolutely perfect explanation.

Thank God old-timers who are either afraid of or uninterested in life aren’t the target demographic.

desertrat23 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 12:58 pm

Melville wrote: ↑31 May 2025 12:33 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑31 May 2025 09:55 am

Melville wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:20 pm

Pura Vida wrote: ↑17 May 2025 21:02 pm What will it take for the best fans in baseball to return? 1st place in the Cental by June? 10 games over .500? 15 games?

A different downtown and an economy not plaguing consumers with a high cost of goods and services might help as well.

this is correct. we used to have a split of season tickets with friends.
We gave them up within 2 years, the pure hassle of:
-driving to the stadium
-parking
-waiting in a long line to enter the stadium
-waiting in a 5 minute line for the bathroom, 20 minutes for my wife
-waiting in line for an entire inning we missed to get food and drink, then spending 50 dollars for 2 drinks and 2 hot dogs
-waiting in line to exit the stadium
-hoping to avoid being harassed by beggars while walking to our car
-hoping our windows aren't broken (happened once)
-waiting 30 minutes just to exit the parking lot
-driving another 35 minutes home

hard pass

Absolutely perfect explanation.

Thank God old-timers who are either afraid of or uninterested in life aren’t the target demographic.

You think the young timers are MLB people?