Tanking Cardinals to move them?

[earp]

Smells like the RAMS!

[CCard]

MLB isn't letting anyone move the Cardinals out of St. Louis.

If there are other markets where MLB could see a team existing, they'll add an expansion franchise long before they let the Cardinals move.

Please articulate that this is just your feeling. You have no actual proof. No DeWitt or anyone from the MLB has said they won't ever move the team or be allowed to move the team. In your opinion the Cards are too important to move, but not important enough to field a competitive team. I'm sure at one point the fans of the Braves, Dodgers, Giants, A's, etc thought the same way. "Not here."

The MLB owners don't profit much, if at all, from the Cardinals moving out of St. Louis, because St. Louis is a very viable market (demonstrated ability to draw 3+ million in attendance, etc.). They profit from selling the rights to an expansion franchise.

They would most likely get a fee from the Cardinals to every team for moving. So they would profit. Also the fan base will see a big drop because of poor product and losing.

Yeah, attendance will go down during the rebuilding years.

Then it will come back up after the rebuild when they are ready to compete again.

That's how this works and is to be expected.

No, that's not how it works. Every time a team does this some fans never come back. On top of that, TANKING IS WRONG. How many times do I have to say it. It's morally reprehensible. Even worse, they have the money to field a decent team.

Then other fans must join because attendance - in Houston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc. - rebounded to pre-rebuild levels.

And, again, the point is to stop being stuck at "decent", in the mediocre middle. They're not spending money to be "decent" - they're trying to rebuild the organization so they can be better than that.

You're right. They're not spending money to be decent. They're not spending money much at all. So the fans will suffer through this austerity so that a billionaire can save some pocket change. Does that seem right to you?

I'm not obsessed with the owners' pockets. I just want to see this organization get back to where it can compete for a World Series title.

As do I sir. We are both Cards fans. I just don't see the advantage of austerity in the Cards payroll at the expense of us fans who want to watch their team compete and have a chance at the playoffs. Will the Cards ever have a power house team? Probably not, because they staunchly refuse to invest in high talent free agents, especially pitchers. I was actually surprised when they signed Gray because that's so out of character for them. While Gray did okayish, he didn't really pitch like an ace mostly. But then, he was always kind of like that. Let's hope that the losing isn't as bad as I fear it will be. There's still time to sign some veteran help. Lord knows there's enough payroll for it.

[TNT9516]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

[CCard]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

[ecleme22]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

[CCard]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

[ecleme22]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

[Cusecards]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

Agree...not tanking!

[mattmitchl44]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

Agree...not tanking!

Honestly, I don't think it matters what you call it.

It is just smart right now for the Cardinals not to lock themselves into long, expensive contracts for multiple reasons.

You might argue that the Cardinals could have opted to add more FAs this offseason who were willing to sign 1-2 year deals. Maybe they could have spent more money for 2026 that way. However, here is the list of "top" (by AAV they got) 1-2 year FA signings (excluding RP/closers):

Merrill Kelly - 2 yrs./$40 million - was he ever going anywhere but back to Arizona?
Jorge Polonco - 2 yrs./$40 million - maybe, but it would be a flyer on whether he could play 3B
Ha-Seong Kim - 1 yr./$20 million - not signing a SS
Munetaka Murakami - 2 yrs./$34 million - probably a gut that some would have wanted to sign, question about how much he's going to K in MLB
Eugenio Suarez - 1 yr./$15 million - probably a guy that some would wanted to sign
Ryan O'Hearn - 2 yrs./$29 million - maybe if they had traded Nootbaar, but another LH OF
Luis Arraez - 1 yr./$12 million - hits for average but little else, Cardinals pretty full up at 1B/2B anyway
Mike Yastrzemski - 2 yrs./$23 million - another LH OF
Adrian Houser - 2 yrs./$22 million - not really the K/9 SP the Cardinals are trying to add
Harrison Bader - 2 yrs./$20.5 million - maybe

So who would you realistically add - Murakami/Suarez (3B), Bader (RH OF), and Houser (SP)? Raise payroll by ~$45 million in 2026 to do what, win four more games?

[CCard]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

[Bomber1]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Please just stop.

The Cardinals will not be moving.

[Horseradish]

As to Donovan….

He’s a nice player, but would have been of no value on what is going to be a very weak team in 26 and 27

and then he’s a free agent

Trading him brought prospects that the club will control for many years…

The Cards are not going to Austin…..

Nashville or Charlotte most likely…

Dream on, dummy. Those cities may get teams eventually, but they won't get the Cardinal franchise.

I would agree in a sensible world the Cardinals would never leave StL. But MLB no longer makes decisions based on sense. Its all about money. MLB could charge a city much more for a historic franchise than an expansion team. Greedy owners would salivate. And ol Billy DeWitt would probably be on board if he thought it would get him a few easy bucks.

If it’s all about money, they stay in STL and pressure Dewitt to seek if he and his group aren’t interested in spending appropriately. Moving them to any other city would be dumb.

Would it? DeWitt could pull a Kroenke, point to dwindling attendance, and an inability to secure a good TV deal. MLB sees massive $$ with what they could charge to award an historic team to a thriving city.

He’s invested in BPV. He isn’t pulling a Kroenke. Sorry, this is just a completely different situation and I think it’s foolish to think they would move out of the STL area.

[mattmitchl44]

As to Donovan….

He’s a nice player, but would have been of no value on what is going to be a very weak team in 26 and 27

and then he’s a free agent

Trading him brought prospects that the club will control for many years…

The Cards are not going to Austin…..

Nashville or Charlotte most likely…

Dream on, dummy. Those cities may get teams eventually, but they won't get the Cardinal franchise.

I would agree in a sensible world the Cardinals would never leave StL. But MLB no longer makes decisions based on sense. Its all about money. MLB could charge a city much more for a historic franchise than an expansion team. Greedy owners would salivate. And ol Billy DeWitt would probably be on board if he thought it would get him a few easy bucks.

If it’s all about money, they stay in STL and pressure Dewitt to seek if he and his group aren’t interested in spending appropriately. Moving them to any other city would be dumb.

Would it? DeWitt could pull a Kroenke, point to dwindling attendance, and an inability to secure a good TV deal. MLB sees massive $$ with what they could charge to award an historic team to a thriving city.

He’s invested in BPV. He isn’t pulling a Kroenke. Sorry, this is just a completely different situation and I think it’s foolish to think they would move out of the STL area.

This is just a desperate new angle from which to complain about the deep rebuild they are doing.

[ecleme22]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

[Cusecards]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

Agree...not tanking!

Honestly, I don't think it matters what you call it.

It is just smart right now for the Cardinals not to lock themselves into long, expensive contracts for multiple reasons.

You might argue that the Cardinals could have opted to add more FAs this offseason who were willing to sign 1-2 year deals. Maybe they could have spent more money for 2026 that way. However, here is the list of "top" (by AAV they got) 1-2 year FA signings (excluding RP/closers):

Merrill Kelly - 2 yrs./$40 million - was he ever going anywhere but back to Arizona?
Jorge Polonco - 2 yrs./$40 million - maybe, but it would be a flyer on whether he could play 3B
Ha-Seong Kim - 1 yr./$20 million - not signing a SS
Munetaka Murakami - 2 yrs./$34 million - probably a gut that some would have wanted to sign, question about how much he's going to K in MLB
Eugenio Suarez - 1 yr./$15 million - probably a guy that some would wanted to sign
Ryan O'Hearn - 2 yrs./$29 million - maybe if they had traded Nootbaar, but another LH OF
Luis Arraez - 1 yr./$12 million - hits for average but little else, Cardinals pretty full up at 1B/2B anyway
Mike Yastrzemski - 2 yrs./$23 million - another LH OF
Adrian Houser - 2 yrs./$22 million - not really the K/9 SP the Cardinals are trying to add
Harrison Bader - 2 yrs./$20.5 million - maybe

So who would you realistically add - Murakami/Suarez (3B), Bader (RH OF), and Houser (SP)? Raise payroll by ~$45 million in 2026 to do what, win four more games?

100%!
Label it whatever you want? But I do believe you are headed in the right direction so give it some time!
Doesn’t mean you can’t have an interesting team to watch as you follow their progress.
I especially agree that spending just for appearances just to win a couple more games doesn’t make sense.
Now...after they see who does or doesn’t emerge...next offseason will probably be the time to invest in FA’s.

[Cusecards]

Get the fans frustrated to the point of venting their anger and then the ownership is vindicated in moving on from a hostile environment. You don't have to tank to rebuild/retool. Whitey Herzog could have taught a master class on that!

Whitey knew how to build a team. He traded Templeton and a whole host of others but he got back some very good players in return. That swap with the Brewers put them both into the World Series facing each other. Herzog wouldn't have even contemplated tanking. Neither would LaRussa.

It’s not tanking. It’s rebuilding

It is tanking and I won't argue with about it. We obviously see differently. When you cut payroll drastically and don't replace the talent it's called tanking. To date they've only acquired unproven minor league talent. Mostly pitching. It may work out, but it may just as likely blow up in their faces.

Name me a team in the middle of a rebuild that increases payroll…

You can’t. Teams always reduce payroll during a rebuild.

Keep learning…

No matter what you say, there's no reason to gut payroll like they have without replacing some major league talent. No excuse to put that kind of misery on the fans but you go on with your sycophantic billionaire kissing. It suits you.

“Why did they trade older vets for prospects, then not spend money on other vets????”

All together now: “Because it’s a rebuild.”

Keep learning…

LOL....nice try my friend!
You’d have better luck talking to your refrigerator....like I did.
At least the Fridge serves a purpose!
As opposed to close minded people.