Why not trade from surplus (catcher)?

[Melville]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

A team attempting to improve long term must trade from a position of depth to a position of dearth another franchise is seeking to bolster.
STL's priority needs going into this offseason were starting pitching and a quality RH hitting outfielder with multiple years of control.
Catcher is a position from which STL can trade - and should.
Like it or not, Bernal currently is the shortest pathway to obtaining what STL needs without damaging their own strategic plan and long term goals.
I am the only person on the planet who correctly understood the optimal time to trade The Paper Tyler, Hence, DeJong, Martinez, Reyes and several others - while also correctly identifying the keepers.
I do not believe I have been wrong with a single player recommendation in at least 5 years in discussing the Cardinals.
And, there is a 100% probability that I am right on this as well.
What Bernal may or may not be 3 years from now is not the strategic imperative - the important thing is what he (and others) can bring STL right now.

Melville posted, "while also correctly identifying the keepers". Just curious. Do you consider Gorman a "keeper"? If so, he better start showing it soon.

Gorman has been badly mishandled by the Cardinals.
As a direct result, his performance has been uneven.
And yet, he is still a 25HR/80 RBI/80 runs scored per 600 PA hitter.
And the most productive LH hitting 3B in MLB last year.
And the only 25+ HR hitter on a team which ranked 29th in HR in MLB last year.
So yes, even with the issues, he is a keeper for 2026 - but Bloom must order The Marmot to put him in the lineup every day.
If he does not succeed in 2026, he will end up elsewhere - and will flourish.

Melville, do you have a nickname? If not, I would respectfully suggest, "Captain". This is what going down with the ship looks like. Admire the resolve.

Has nothing to do with resolve.
Just data.
Yes - Gorman strikes out too much.
But games are won and lost based on runs, not strikeouts.
And whether folks like it or not - or like how he does it - Gorman does produce runs at a quality rate.
Right now, Gorman has a career rate of 28 HR and 79 RBI per 601 PA's - even with the terrible mishandling by the STL staff and his inconsistencies over the past 2 seasons (primarily due to knee jerk playing time decisions) - and is still just 25 years old.
Fact is, he is just about MLB average at getting on base and possesses above average power.
That is not an endorsement.
It is simply a fact.
He will either succeed in STL in 2026 - or he will do so with another team in the future.

Your last sentence- Either way you are predicting success- here or afar. Isn’t that an endorsement.

Not an endorsement.
Never for or against any player.
I am always free of bias, free of agenda.
The above is not an endorsement - it is merely an accurate assessment of available facts to this point.
Based on the data, Gorman will hit 25+ HR and drive in 80 per 600 PA's.
He will also strike out too much.
He will also hit in the .220-.230 range.
He will also draw walks at an elite rate.
His OBP will result in roughly just 1 less time on base in every 100 trips than the MLB average.
In today's MLB world, that is a well above average LH 3b bat.
And whether folks like it or not, he offers far more power and production in that role than any other options STL currently has on hand.
That is the reality.

[renostl]

According to Katie Woo's reporting the Cardinals are interested in having Herrera catch 60-80 games this season. Her reporting is better than my guessing, so at least until the Cardinals change their mind, I'll assume that is true. That leaves 80-100 games to be caught. Are they really going to tie up roster spots with Pages and Crooks to cover 80-100 games? I can't see it.

If they only have one of Crooks or Pages on the ML roster, what do they do? They aren't sending Pages down. Are they really going to send Crooks to AAA with Pozo and Bernal on the roster? Would they really hold Bernal back to AA to avoid having all 3 catchers at Memphis? None of that makes sense.

If they aren't committed to having Herrera catch 60-80 games it's a different conversation, but if they are, they need to cut bait with either Pages or Crooks, and plan to call up Pozo if someone gets hurt, or Herrera can't cut it.

Contrary to comments on here, both Pages and Crooks have trade value.

This is the point attempted earlier in this thread.

To give IH another run at catcher doesn't require anyone to agree with
it. The plan suggests a reality of IH getting games. To then sign a Pozo however
small of an investment is still playing time. Putting 3 catchers on the 26 seems like a repeated
mistake on a team with DH like athletic abilities.

Keeping all can easily be done, I'll hope for 2 on the MLB roster over 3.
Limited gloves, limited athletes, and 3 catchers out of 13 roster spots
handcuffs the manager.

[renostl]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

A team attempting to improve long term must trade from a position of depth to a position of dearth another franchise is seeking to bolster.
STL's priority needs going into this offseason were starting pitching and a quality RH hitting outfielder with multiple years of control.
Catcher is a position from which STL can trade - and should.
Like it or not, Bernal currently is the shortest pathway to obtaining what STL needs without damaging their own strategic plan and long term goals.
I am the only person on the planet who correctly understood the optimal time to trade The Paper Tyler, Hence, DeJong, Martinez, Reyes and several others - while also correctly identifying the keepers.
I do not believe I have been wrong with a single player recommendation in at least 5 years in discussing the Cardinals.
And, there is a 100% probability that I am right on this as well.
What Bernal may or may not be 3 years from now is not the strategic imperative - the important thing is what he (and others) can bring STL right now.

Melville posted, "while also correctly identifying the keepers". Just curious. Do you consider Gorman a "keeper"? If so, he better start showing it soon.

Gorman has been badly mishandled by the Cardinals.
As a direct result, his performance has been uneven.
And yet, he is still a 25HR/80 RBI/80 runs scored per 600 PA hitter.
And the most productive LH hitting 3B in MLB last year.
And the only 25+ HR hitter on a team which ranked 29th in HR in MLB last year.
So yes, even with the issues, he is a keeper for 2026 - but Bloom must order The Marmot to put him in the lineup every day.
If he does not succeed in 2026, he will end up elsewhere - and will flourish.

Be consistent my friend
or it opens one up to claims of bias.

Using 162 game averages is ok but it is a very slippery slope if not done with others.
Gorman has missed games due to poor performance too as his triple A demotions were
a result. In 2024 it was a .551 OPS in the second half that put him in AAA for 35 games, 100 PA's?

2023 he lost 32 games to injury, 2025 22 games to injury. Rather Nootbaar like.

His last 2 seasons with .671 and .666 OPS are hardly numbers that suggest everyday playing time.

NG has to bring SLG. You agree with this when promoting his 162 game HR totals.
He brings zero value over average otherwise in defense, speed, or batting average.
His SLG has been .400 and .370 the last 2 seasons, Also Nootbaar like .417 and .361

He has to bring it in 2026 or may find himself out of opportunities and not just St. Louis.

[Melville]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

A team attempting to improve long term must trade from a position of depth to a position of dearth another franchise is seeking to bolster.
STL's priority needs going into this offseason were starting pitching and a quality RH hitting outfielder with multiple years of control.
Catcher is a position from which STL can trade - and should.
Like it or not, Bernal currently is the shortest pathway to obtaining what STL needs without damaging their own strategic plan and long term goals.
I am the only person on the planet who correctly understood the optimal time to trade The Paper Tyler, Hence, DeJong, Martinez, Reyes and several others - while also correctly identifying the keepers.
I do not believe I have been wrong with a single player recommendation in at least 5 years in discussing the Cardinals.
And, there is a 100% probability that I am right on this as well.
What Bernal may or may not be 3 years from now is not the strategic imperative - the important thing is what he (and others) can bring STL right now.

Melville posted, "while also correctly identifying the keepers". Just curious. Do you consider Gorman a "keeper"? If so, he better start showing it soon.

Gorman has been badly mishandled by the Cardinals.
As a direct result, his performance has been uneven.
And yet, he is still a 25HR/80 RBI/80 runs scored per 600 PA hitter.
And the most productive LH hitting 3B in MLB last year.
And the only 25+ HR hitter on a team which ranked 29th in HR in MLB last year.
So yes, even with the issues, he is a keeper for 2026 - but Bloom must order The Marmot to put him in the lineup every day.
If he does not succeed in 2026, he will end up elsewhere - and will flourish.

Be consistent my friend
or it opens one up to claims of bias.

Using 162 game averages is ok but it is a very slippery slope if not done with others.
Gorman has missed games due to poor performance too as his triple A demotions were
a result. In 2024 it was a .551 OPS in the second half that put him in AAA for 35 games, 100 PA's?

2023 he lost 32 games to injury, 2025 22 games to injury. Rather Nootbaar like.

His last 2 seasons with .671 and .666 OPS are hardly numbers that suggest everyday playing time.

NG has to bring SLG. You agree with this when promoting his 162 game HR totals.
He brings zero value over average otherwise in defense, speed, or batting average.
His SLG has been .400 and .370 the last 2 seasons, Also Nootbaar like .417 and .361

He has to bring it in 2026 or may find himself out of opportunities and not just St. Louis.

My approach accounts for everything.
I did NOT use 162 game averages.
That is in unintentional misstatement on your part.
I pointed to his production per 600 PA's - which in fact DOES take into account factors such as time lost due to time spent at AAA, to injury, or to simply foolish and inconsistent playing time decisions by STL staff.
And it also allows for direct and fair comparison between players.
For example, Lars Nootbaar has a higher BA and OBP than Gorman.
Gorman produces 79 RBI and 73 runs scored, while Nootbaar produces 60 RBI and 77 runs in the same number of PA's - making Gorman the far more productive player.
Walker is at 65 RBI and 62 runs - making Gorman the far more productive player.
Gorman also produces more offense than Winn.
And - this will surprise most folks (not me, of course) - more than Donovan.
And more than Burleson.
Guess which player on the Cardinals is most like Gorman at producing runs?
Herrera - and even he is just slightly below Gorman.
These are career numbers, which account for all the ups and downs by these various players.
Is that an endorsement?
Nope.
It is simply a fact.
What Gorman does is not always pretty, but it is productive.
Though most fans allow bias and emotion to get in their way, you may be certain that the STL front office is very much aware of these realities.
I agree with you 100% that 2026 will be an important year as STL addresses the future.
If they continue to badly mishandle players (as they have with Gorman, Walker, Herrera, Mootbaar, etc.) the team will struggle as it has the past few years.

[ClassicO]

Melville’s sophistry:

In his world, if there’s a bench player in basketball who hits a high percentage of threes which, if he were full-time, would produce good offensive numbers but, because he’s very slow and plays horrible defense, he continues to be a back up. He’s a one trick pony, and those don’t get full playing time. In any sport.

Trying to extrapolate Gorman’s numbers with an assumption of 600 PAs is ridiculous.
He’s a 400 PA guy for a good reason.

I wish Gorman all the good fortune in the world because I’m a Cardinals fan, but I am also a realist. If he’s a 25+ HR/80 RBI guy per Melville, why has he averaged 18 HRs and 52 RBI? Slow as molasses and pitiful defense maybe?

[renostl]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

A team attempting to improve long term must trade from a position of depth to a position of dearth another franchise is seeking to bolster.
STL's priority needs going into this offseason were starting pitching and a quality RH hitting outfielder with multiple years of control.
Catcher is a position from which STL can trade - and should.
Like it or not, Bernal currently is the shortest pathway to obtaining what STL needs without damaging their own strategic plan and long term goals.
I am the only person on the planet who correctly understood the optimal time to trade The Paper Tyler, Hence, DeJong, Martinez, Reyes and several others - while also correctly identifying the keepers.
I do not believe I have been wrong with a single player recommendation in at least 5 years in discussing the Cardinals.
And, there is a 100% probability that I am right on this as well.
What Bernal may or may not be 3 years from now is not the strategic imperative - the important thing is what he (and others) can bring STL right now.

Melville posted, "while also correctly identifying the keepers". Just curious. Do you consider Gorman a "keeper"? If so, he better start showing it soon.

Gorman has been badly mishandled by the Cardinals.
As a direct result, his performance has been uneven.
And yet, he is still a 25HR/80 RBI/80 runs scored per 600 PA hitter.
And the most productive LH hitting 3B in MLB last year.
And the only 25+ HR hitter on a team which ranked 29th in HR in MLB last year.
So yes, even with the issues, he is a keeper for 2026 - but Bloom must order The Marmot to put him in the lineup every day.
If he does not succeed in 2026, he will end up elsewhere - and will flourish.

Be consistent my friend
or it opens one up to claims of bias.

Using 162 game averages is ok but it is a very slippery slope if not done with others.
Gorman has missed games due to poor performance too as his triple A demotions were
a result. In 2024 it was a .551 OPS in the second half that put him in AAA for 35 games, 100 PA's?

2023 he lost 32 games to injury, 2025 22 games to injury. Rather Nootbaar like.
3
His last 2 seasons with .671 and .666 OPS are hardly numbers that suggest everyday playing time.

NG has to bring SLG. You agree with this when promoting his 162 game HR totals.
He brings zero value over average otherwise in defense, speed, or batting average.
His SLG has been .400 and .370 the last 2 seasons, Also Nootbaar like .417 and .361

He has to bring it in 2026 or may find himself out of opportunities and not just St. Louis.

My approach accounts for everything.
I did NOT use 162 game averages.
That is in unintentional misstatement on your part.
I pointed to his production per 600 PA's - which in fact DOES take into account factors such as time lost due to time spent at AAA, to injury, or to simply foolish and inconsistent playing time decisions by STL staff.
And it also allows for direct and fair comparison between players.
For example, Lars Nootbaar has a higher BA and OBP than Gorman.
Gorman produces 79 RBI and 73 runs scored, while Nootbaar produces 60 RBI and 77 runs in the same number of PA's - making Gorman the far more productive player.
Walker is at 65 RBI and 62 runs - making Gorman the far more productive player.
Gorman also produces more offense than Winn.
And - this will surprise most folks (not me, of course) - more than Donovan.
And more than Burleson.
Guess which player on the Cardinals is most like Gorman at producing runs?
Herrera - and even he is just slightly below Gorman.
These are career numbers, which account for all the ups and downs by these various players.
Is that an endorsement?
Nope.
It is simply a fact.
What Gorman does is not always pretty, but it is productive.
Though most fans allow bias and emotion to get in their way, you may be certain that the STL front office is very much aware of these realities.
I agree with you 100% that 2026 will be an important year as STL addresses the future.
If they continue to badly mishandle players (as they have with Gorman, Walker, Herrera, Mootbaar, etc.) the team will struggle as it has the past few years.

I have no desire to continue to disparage the player
who's career is in balance.

Baseball Reference does a good job with 162 game averages. When they do it with NG, there's 601 PA's.

To use those numbers with this player who has missed
32 and 22 games in 2 seasons to injury, another 35 games in 2024 due to a .551 OPS in the second half of the season resulting in a demotion is misleading, IMO.
To follow that with not getting playing time due to being arbitrary benched is also misleading when the player himself is responsible for missing 100 PA
each season. 145 games is optimistic.

The last 2 seasons he hasn't out SLG"d a OBP guy stuck in his own subpar production. Not good.
He needs another 80+ points of SLG for a player of his profile.

[Cardinals4Life]

there's not really a surplus. Crooks is the only one of consequence at the Major League level. Bernal is a year behind him, having not seen AAA yet. Rodriguez is 2-3 seasons behind Crooks, and not in Bernal's league defensively.

Also, and this gets overlooked, you want your defensively capable catcher with your best crop of minor league pitchers. Thankfully, this lines up perfectly for Bernal...he gets to catch Mathews, Henderson, Mautz, and possibly Doyle....those pitchers should have a great receiver....not a bunch of minor league rejects behind the plate.

There's not really a road block or clog at catcher until 2027.

The MLB pitching staff loves pitching to Pedro...I'd rather go with Pedro and Crooks in 2026, then trade Crooks in the next offseason and go with Bernal and Pages in 2027. Maybe Crooks starts to hit well....great, then move Burleson in a trade and make Crooks your 1B in 2027. You can't have both Crooks and Bernal as your catchers...They will both hit LH in the majors, slight chance that Bernal continues as a SH, but LH is his best....that makes Bernal and Crooks redundant.

.......anyways, that's my two cents....there's no surplus/backlog...or at least there's no rational reason to move one of those two at this moment. Our pitching future is too important. Don't F with that.

=---------

Edit ~ in fact...I would trade for another catcher we can put in AA. The Campos/Kross experiment has been a disaster so far. We need quality catching at Springfield with Doyle, Lin, Rincon, Savacool, Franklin, Clarke, etc.

As much as a like Adkison and Tarlow...they're not proven starting material.

I disagree. Bloom should trade one of Pages, Crooks or Pozo if it helps bring needed outfield help.

None of these players should be traded for ‘outfield help.’

Outfield help should be through FA, like May was.

Edit: maybe Pozo

It did create some curiosity to say Herrera will will get an opportunity and to also sign Pozo.
IF Herrera is really getting a shot then there's either 3
C's again on MLB or 2 are kept at AAA

Unless someone is traded.

Herrera - Either starting C or moved to a new spot/DH

Pages - Either backup C or traded

Crooks - Either Starting C (if Herrera is moved), backup C for Herrera, or traded. Outside shot he starts in AAA as the starter there.

Pozo - Backup C at AAA. Emergency callup for a lengthy injury.

[Cardinals1964]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

A team attempting to improve long term must trade from a position of depth to a position of dearth another franchise is seeking to bolster.
STL's priority needs going into this offseason were starting pitching and a quality RH hitting outfielder with multiple years of control.
Catcher is a position from which STL can trade - and should.
Like it or not, Bernal currently is the shortest pathway to obtaining what STL needs without damaging their own strategic plan and long term goals.
I am the only person on the planet who correctly understood the optimal time to trade The Paper Tyler, Hence, DeJong, Martinez, Reyes and several others - while also correctly identifying the keepers.
I do not believe I have been wrong with a single player recommendation in at least 5 years in discussing the Cardinals.
And, there is a 100% probability that I am right on this as well.
What Bernal may or may not be 3 years from now is not the strategic imperative - the important thing is what he (and others) can bring STL right now.

Melville posted, "while also correctly identifying the keepers". Just curious. Do you consider Gorman a "keeper"? If so, he better start showing it soon.

Gorman has been badly mishandled by the Cardinals.
As a direct result, his performance has been uneven.
And yet, he is still a 25HR/80 RBI/80 runs scored per 600 PA hitter.
And the most productive LH hitting 3B in MLB last year.
And the only 25+ HR hitter on a team which ranked 29th in HR in MLB last year.
So yes, even with the issues, he is a keeper for 2026 - but Bloom must order The Marmot to put him in the lineup every day.
If he does not succeed in 2026, he will end up elsewhere - and will flourish.

Melville, do you have a nickname? If not, I would respectfully suggest, "Captain". This is what going down with the ship looks like. Admire the resolve.

Has nothing to do with resolve.
Just data.
Yes - Gorman strikes out too much.
But games are won and lost based on runs, not strikeouts.
And whether folks like it or not - or like how he does it - Gorman does produce runs at a quality rate.
Right now, Gorman has a career rate of 28 HR and 79 RBI per 601 PA's - even with the terrible mishandling by the STL staff and his inconsistencies over the past 2 seasons (primarily due to knee jerk playing time decisions) - and is still just 25 years old.
Fact is, he is just about MLB average at getting on base and possesses above average power.
That is not an endorsement.
It is simply a fact.
He will either succeed in STL in 2026 - or he will do so with another team in the future.

Your last sentence- Either way you are predicting success- here or afar. Isn’t that an endorsement.

Not an endorsement.
Never for or against any player.
I am always free of bias, free of agenda.
The above is not an endorsement - it is merely an accurate assessment of available facts to this point.
Based on the data, Gorman will hit 25+ HR and drive in 80 per 600 PA's.
He will also strike out too much.
He will also hit in the .220-.230 range.
He will also draw walks at an elite rate.
His OBP will result in roughly just 1 less time on base in every 100 trips than the MLB average.
In today's MLB world, that is a well above average LH 3b bat.
And whether folks like it or not, he offers far more power and production in that role than any other options STL currently has on hand.
That is the reality.

Good guess. Screen shot it for later.

[Cardinals1964]

Cardinals have 3 mediocre catchers on mlb roster. 3 top prospects in the minors. Drafted 2 catchers in their first 5 picks in the last draft.
Cardinals love catchers.

[sikeston bulldog2]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

A team attempting to improve long term must trade from a position of depth to a position of dearth another franchise is seeking to bolster.
STL's priority needs going into this offseason were starting pitching and a quality RH hitting outfielder with multiple years of control.
Catcher is a position from which STL can trade - and should.
Like it or not, Bernal currently is the shortest pathway to obtaining what STL needs without damaging their own strategic plan and long term goals.
I am the only person on the planet who correctly understood the optimal time to trade The Paper Tyler, Hence, DeJong, Martinez, Reyes and several others - while also correctly identifying the keepers.
I do not believe I have been wrong with a single player recommendation in at least 5 years in discussing the Cardinals.
And, there is a 100% probability that I am right on this as well.
What Bernal may or may not be 3 years from now is not the strategic imperative - the important thing is what he (and others) can bring STL right now.

Melville posted, "while also correctly identifying the keepers". Just curious. Do you consider Gorman a "keeper"? If so, he better start showing it soon.

Gorman has been badly mishandled by the Cardinals.
As a direct result, his performance has been uneven.
And yet, he is still a 25HR/80 RBI/80 runs scored per 600 PA hitter.
And the most productive LH hitting 3B in MLB last year.
And the only 25+ HR hitter on a team which ranked 29th in HR in MLB last year.
So yes, even with the issues, he is a keeper for 2026 - but Bloom must order The Marmot to put him in the lineup every day.
If he does not succeed in 2026, he will end up elsewhere - and will flourish.

Melville, do you have a nickname? If not, I would respectfully suggest, "Captain". This is what going down with the ship looks like. Admire the resolve.

Has nothing to do with resolve.
Just data.
Yes - Gorman strikes out too much.
But games are won and lost based on runs, not strikeouts.
And whether folks like it or not - or like how he does it - Gorman does produce runs at a quality rate.
Right now, Gorman has a career rate of 28 HR and 79 RBI per 601 PA's - even with the terrible mishandling by the STL staff and his inconsistencies over the past 2 seasons (primarily due to knee jerk playing time decisions) - and is still just 25 years old.
Fact is, he is just about MLB average at getting on base and possesses above average power.
That is not an endorsement.
It is simply a fact.
He will either succeed in STL in 2026 - or he will do so with another team in the future.

Your last sentence- Either way you are predicting success- here or afar. Isn’t that an endorsement.

Not an endorsement.
Never for or against any player.
I am always free of bias, free of agenda.
The above is not an endorsement - it is merely an accurate assessment of available facts to this point.
Based on the data, Gorman will hit 25+ HR and drive in 80 per 600 PA's.
He will also strike out too much.
He will also hit in the .220-.230 range.
He will also draw walks at an elite rate.
His OBP will result in roughly just 1 less time on base in every 100 trips than the MLB average.
In today's MLB world, that is a well above average LH 3b bat.
And whether folks like it or not, he offers far more power and production in that role than any other options STL currently has on hand.
That is the reality.

I think your last sentence was an endorsement- a public display of validation, recommendation, or alterations.

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

According to Katie Woo's reporting the Cardinals are interested in having Herrera catch 60-80 games this season. Her reporting is better than my guessing, so at least until the Cardinals change their mind, I'll assume that is true. That leaves 80-100 games to be caught. Are they really going to tie up roster spots with Pages and Crooks to cover 80-100 games? I can't see it.

If they only have one of Crooks or Pages on the ML roster, what do they do? They aren't sending Pages down. Are they really going to send Crooks to AAA with Pozo and Bernal on the roster? Would they really hold Bernal back to AA to avoid having all 3 catchers at Memphis? None of that makes sense.

If they aren't committed to having Herrera catch 60-80 games it's a different conversation, but if they are, they need to cut bait with either Pages or Crooks, and plan to call up Pozo if someone gets hurt, or Herrera can't cut it.

Contrary to comments on here, both Pages and Crooks have trade value.

I’ve read everyone’s comments and respect most, my take away is there is surplus. Sure perfect case maybe not but relative to some of the other positions or lack there of there is.

You pointed it out, Herrera will catch along with Pages and Pozos.

You mapped out milb. They really should be looking to move surplus for an outfielder, shortstop, etc….

[PadsFS07]

Rodriguez is rather stocky and on the short side. 5'8 210 as a 18 year old. I don't think personally he wil stay at catcher as there are already whispers about his defense. There is also questions about his arm strength. I will say thought that he threw out 33% of baserunners.

Either way, they aren't going to have him skip A+ Peoria.

Meanwhile, Bernal and Crooks both have been lauded as the best defensive catchers in all of the minor leagues.

Bernal is also a big guy at 240/250 lbs, but is at 6' tall. He would be highly thought of now, if not for absolutely nosediving with the bat in the second half of the season (.639 OPS in July, .577 in August, .492 in September). I think he returns to Springfield for a couple months to start the year.

With Herrera going back to catching some, Crooks (LH bat) is a much better fit as a backup catcher than Pages, but I can see them leaving Crooks as the AAA starter to cater to Pages. Pozo can be the 3rd MLB catcher or the backup CA at AAA.

No logjam/surplus.

Plus there's no reason to trade our 2 stud prospects until they hit their peak in value, which is right at the cusp of the MLB, which is probably next offseason for Bernal and 2027 for Rodriguez.

[ecleme22]

According to Katie Woo's reporting the Cardinals are interested in having Herrera catch 60-80 games this season. Her reporting is better than my guessing, so at least until the Cardinals change their mind, I'll assume that is true. That leaves 80-100 games to be caught. Are they really going to tie up roster spots with Pages and Crooks to cover 80-100 games? I can't see it.

If they only have one of Crooks or Pages on the ML roster, what do they do? They aren't sending Pages down. Are they really going to send Crooks to AAA with Pozo and Bernal on the roster? Would they really hold Bernal back to AA to avoid having all 3 catchers at Memphis? None of that makes sense.

If they aren't committed to having Herrera catch 60-80 games it's a different conversation, but if they are, they need to cut bait with either Pages or Crooks, and plan to call up Pozo if someone gets hurt, or Herrera can't cut it.

Contrary to comments on here, both Pages and Crooks have trade value.

I’ve read everyone’s comments and respect most, my take away is there is surplus. Sure perfect case maybe not but relative to some of the other positions or lack there of there is.

You pointed it out, Herrera will catch along with Pages and Pozos.

You mapped out milb. They really should be looking to move surplus for an outfielder, shortstop, etc….

Curious why we need a shortstop…

Also, let’s assume we have a catching surplus. There’s no reason why a trade needs to happen now. Most are still unknowns, and the team isn’t trying an aggressive playoff push this year.

Lastly, in our ‘surplus,’ we shouldn’t count Pages, Pozo or Herrera.

[Talkin' Baseball]

According to Katie Woo's reporting the Cardinals are interested in having Herrera catch 60-80 games this season. Her reporting is better than my guessing, so at least until the Cardinals change their mind, I'll assume that is true. That leaves 80-100 games to be caught. Are they really going to tie up roster spots with Pages and Crooks to cover 80-100 games? I can't see it.

If they only have one of Crooks or Pages on the ML roster, what do they do? They aren't sending Pages down. Are they really going to send Crooks to AAA with Pozo and Bernal on the roster? Would they really hold Bernal back to AA to avoid having all 3 catchers at Memphis? None of that makes sense.

If they aren't committed to having Herrera catch 60-80 games it's a different conversation, but if they are, they need to cut bait with either Pages or Crooks, and plan to call up Pozo if someone gets hurt, or Herrera can't cut it.

Contrary to comments on here, both Pages and Crooks have trade value.

I’ve read everyone’s comments and respect most, my take away is there is surplus. Sure perfect case maybe not but relative to some of the other positions or lack there of there is.

You pointed it out, Herrera will catch along with Pages and Pozos.

You mapped out milb. They really should be looking to move surplus for an outfielder, shortstop, etc….

Curious why we need a shortstop…

Also, let’s assume we have a catching surplus. There’s no reason why a trade needs to happen now. Most are still unknowns, and the team isn’t trying an aggressive playoff push this year.

Lastly, in our ‘surplus,’ we shouldn’t count Pages, Pozo or Herrera.

I count Herrera and Pages for this season because they are slated to take up the bulk of the playing time.

[ecleme22]

According to Katie Woo's reporting the Cardinals are interested in having Herrera catch 60-80 games this season. Her reporting is better than my guessing, so at least until the Cardinals change their mind, I'll assume that is true. That leaves 80-100 games to be caught. Are they really going to tie up roster spots with Pages and Crooks to cover 80-100 games? I can't see it.

If they only have one of Crooks or Pages on the ML roster, what do they do? They aren't sending Pages down. Are they really going to send Crooks to AAA with Pozo and Bernal on the roster? Would they really hold Bernal back to AA to avoid having all 3 catchers at Memphis? None of that makes sense.

If they aren't committed to having Herrera catch 60-80 games it's a different conversation, but if they are, they need to cut bait with either Pages or Crooks, and plan to call up Pozo if someone gets hurt, or Herrera can't cut it.

Contrary to comments on here, both Pages and Crooks have trade value.

I’ve read everyone’s comments and respect most, my take away is there is surplus. Sure perfect case maybe not but relative to some of the other positions or lack there of there is.

You pointed it out, Herrera will catch along with Pages and Pozos.

You mapped out milb. They really should be looking to move surplus for an outfielder, shortstop, etc….

Curious why we need a shortstop…

Also, let’s assume we have a catching surplus. There’s no reason why a trade needs to happen now. Most are still unknowns, and the team isn’t trying an aggressive playoff push this year.

Lastly, in our ‘surplus,’ we shouldn’t count Pages, Pozo or Herrera.

I count Herrera and Pages for this season because they are slated to take up the bulk of the playing time.

1. PAGES: I like him all day long as a 2nd string catcher. But he shouldn't be a reason to remove catching prospects from the org.
2. HERRERA: His defense is still a huge question and could very well be our starting 1B or DH by the end of 2026.

So just because IH is slated to get a ton of PT at catching, that can change quickly (see 2025).

If this 'need' to trade one of our catchers is to boost our outfield for 2026, then that's not adhering to the Bloom timeline.

[craviduce]

According to Katie Woo's reporting the Cardinals are interested in having Herrera catch 60-80 games this season. Her reporting is better than my guessing, so at least until the Cardinals change their mind, I'll assume that is true. That leaves 80-100 games to be caught. Are they really going to tie up roster spots with Pages and Crooks to cover 80-100 games? I can't see it.

If they only have one of Crooks or Pages on the ML roster, what do they do? They aren't sending Pages down. Are they really going to send Crooks to AAA with Pozo and Bernal on the roster? Would they really hold Bernal back to AA to avoid having all 3 catchers at Memphis? None of that makes sense.

If they aren't committed to having Herrera catch 60-80 games it's a different conversation, but if they are, they need to cut bait with either Pages or Crooks, and plan to call up Pozo if someone gets hurt, or Herrera can't cut it.

Contrary to comments on here, both Pages and Crooks have trade value.

I’ve read everyone’s comments and respect most, my take away is there is surplus. Sure perfect case maybe not but relative to some of the other positions or lack there of there is.

You pointed it out, Herrera will catch along with Pages and Pozos.

You mapped out milb. They really should be looking to move surplus for an outfielder, shortstop, etc….

Curious why we need a shortstop…

Also, let’s assume we have a catching surplus. There’s no reason why a trade needs to happen now. Most are still unknowns, and the team isn’t trying an aggressive playoff push this year.

Lastly, in our ‘surplus,’ we shouldn’t count Pages, Pozo or Herrera.

I count Herrera and Pages for this season because they are slated to take up the bulk of the playing time.

1. PAGES: I like him all day long as a 2nd string catcher. But he shouldn't be a reason to remove catching prospects from the org.
2. HERRERA: His defense is still a huge question and could very well be our starting 1B or DH by the end of 2026.

So just because IH is slated to get a ton of PT at catching, that can change quickly (see 2025).

If this 'need' to trade one of our catchers is to boost our outfield for 2026, then that's not adhering to the Bloom timeline.

yep, yep...it's a fan thing