Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
You don't seem to feel the Cardinals can trade for any pitchers better than they already have. And it's doubtful they will spend the money for a FA like that. What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
anyways, those 2 guys don't fit your #2 narrative, so don't use them. I know you saw them mentioned earlier, but you should understand the facts first.
They're good/risky gamble signings...especially for a team with a established base. We're still trying to establish a good base. They'd both destroy our bullpen arms and risk injuries to them.
Nay to both.
Last edited by craviduce on 29 Nov 2025 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution for additional starting pitching, seems to be the case.
Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.
The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.
Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.
Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.
The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.
Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.
I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.
Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.
The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.
Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.
I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.
again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"
you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.
And, please tell us the "encouraging news" about May....other than his own words saying his Ulnar Nerve is "Better"...after it flared up and ended his season early....of course he says that, he's an FA who needs a new contract. Several elbow surgeries and now the Nerve problem... and your "encouraging news" don't make him a #2, nor someone the Cards should seek in 2025. Wasted money.
Last edited by craviduce on 29 Nov 2025 13:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm
And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.
The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.
Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.
I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.
again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"
you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.
I just don't want the Cardinals to NOT suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while still rebuilding. You haven't provided any real solutions that would avoid another average starting pitching rotation like last season.
You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.
Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.
You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.
The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.
Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.
I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.
again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"
you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.
I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.
okay....then come up with something viable...and I'm sorry to say this but something "Smart". You NEED innings....ask yourself how do those 2 give you innings? Look up their years, see how many innings they've thrown the last 4 years, then ask yourself again "how do those 2 give you innings? "Will they wreck my Bullpen?" "If we're not aiming to compete, then why make a horrible business decision on a likely 15-20 starts from either? And then having to pay someone else to cover their missed innings?"
May and Beuhler aren't smart decisions for a team with no foundation and drive to win in 2026. It's not 2003, the Cards don't have a foundation of MV3...there's no Carpenter for us to get right now.
Find people who can eat innings and live with that. If the offense can exceed expectations and outscore their opponents then so be it. Other than that, set yourself up for 2027 and 2028.
No way on last seasons's Mikolas being that type #2. I'm talking something more like a healthy Buehler or a May on the comeback trail. Both should be reasonably priced.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.
The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.
Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.
I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.
again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"
you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.
I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.
okay....then come up with something viable...and I'm sorry to say this but something "Smart". You NEED innings....ask yourself how do those 2 give you innings? Look up their years, see how many innings they've thrown the last 4 years, then ask yourself again "how do those 2 give you innings? "Will they wreck my Bullpen?" "If we're not aiming to compete, then why make a horrible business decision on a likely 15-20 starts from either? And then having to pay someone else to cover their missed innings?"
May and Beuhler aren't smart decisions for a team with no foundation and drive to win in 2026. It's not 2003, the Cards don't have a foundation of MV3...there's no Carpenter for us to get right now.
Find people who can eat innings and live with that. If the offense can exceed expectations and outscore their opponents then so be it. Other than that, set yourself up for 2027 and 2028.
Duce what do you think about Merrill Kelly for innings in 26? Think he would sign a one year 15 mil contract? He can eat innings. Probably looking for longer term but I think he would be perfect for what they are looking for.
Shady wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 11:47 am
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.
The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.
Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.
I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.
again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"
you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.
I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.
You're "seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding"? Do you honestly think Chaim Bloom or anyone else in the Cardinals FO reads your posts or cares what you think about their plan? Do you honestly believe you see the Cardinals' current competitive and financial situation more clearly than they do? Your obstinate refusal to listen to what Bloom has been saying is on you.
And sorry, your throwing out vague banalities like "acquire a bargain quality #2 type FA SP," "trade for a young, cost-controlled MOTO power hitter," or "trade Gorman and a bag of balls for a young, cost-controlled SP" isn't a serious plan or proposal, it's just meaningless (and usually unrealistic) platitudes.
You're definitely seeking something, but it isn't "solutions" . . .
Last edited by NYCardsFan on 29 Nov 2025 13:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May has a questionable Elbow...AGAIN. Ulnar nerve issues in his elbow. He reached100 innings or the first time in his short, short, short 5 season career in 2025 before being shut down late. He's not a #2...not next year, and likely never.
Buehler isn't a #2...hasn't been since 2022. I don't think he'll be that in 2026. They'll both be too expensive for a rebuilding team to throw multiple years at in 2026...too big of a gamble for all teams. 1 of them will likely pan out, but I think the day of #2 for Buehler is in the rearview mirror, and the days of projectable #2 for May will never happen....so you can't call him what he never was.
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.
The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.
Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.
I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.
again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"
you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.
I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.
okay....then come up with something viable...and I'm sorry to say this but something "Smart". You NEED innings....ask yourself how do those 2 give you innings? Look up their years, see how many innings they've thrown the last 4 years, then ask yourself again "how do those 2 give you innings? "Will they wreck my Bullpen?" "If we're not aiming to compete, then why make a horrible business decision on a likely 15-20 starts from either? And then having to pay someone else to cover their missed innings?"
May and Beuhler aren't smart decisions for a team with no foundation and drive to win in 2026. It's not 2003, the Cards don't have a foundation of MV3...there's no Carpenter for us to get right now.
Find people who can eat innings and live with that. If the offense can exceed expectations and outscore their opponents then so be it. Other than that, set yourself up for 2027 and 2028.
Duce what do you think about Merrill Kelly for innings in 26? Think he would sign a one year 15 mil contract? He can eat innings. Probably looking for longer term but I think he would be perfect for what they are looking for.
Duce, I also mentioned in another thread about trading with the Twins for Joe Kelly. Nice bounce back year and they have some youngsters that could take his place. He is getting close to making some money and the Twins are known to be a little tight. Thoughts on a Kelly trade?
Shady wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 11:47 am
What's your plan for the Cardinals starting pitching situation in '26?
sign a cheap old veteran on 1 year contract....who'll give you 150 innings. Those two likely won't give you 150 innings, let alone the 175-200 innings a #2 pitcher should always give you. The old veteran won't put people in the seats, but neither will pitchers with busted elbows and likely damaged Ulnar Nerves waiting to inflame and shut them down. People don't buy tickets to watch an Injured List Player they can't see.
Nor do many buy tickets for a struggling team. Which, right now with your solution, seems to be the case.
Do people buy tickets to see a busted prospect back on the IL?
Tickets aren't the concern of this team in 2026. They'll win or lose...probably lose. They need ABLED bodies in the rotation. I know you didn't know May and Buehler had severe elbow injury history, with May likely suffering from permanent Nerve Damage. You saw them mentioned in the thread and you thought they were #2's. Look this stuff up next time. Neither serve the Cards purpose in 2026....Beuhler will be too expensive anyways.
No need for the dig. I am familiar with both May's and Buehler's injury history.
If you were familiar with their injury history, you wouldn't have wanted them in your rotation when we desperately need what they likely won't be able to provide.
The Cards are going to lean on Leahy next year who 1) sucked as a starter and 2) hasn't thrown starter innings in over 3 years....the Cards don't need 2 more pitchers like May and Beuhler in 2026 to go with Leahy. We need an old veteran or 2 to take the ball every 5th day and will eat innings.
Having and an Ace, a #2, a #3, a #4 is irrelevant this coming season. We just need bodies.
I've gotten some rather encouraging reports on both May's and Buehler's progress. The Cardinals wouldn't want to take a chance on both of them. Just one, maybe hoping for the best in getting a needed talent upgrade. The picture you paint( ex. We just need bodies)is not very encouraging for '26. Maybe that's the way it will be.
again...this goes back to "What part of 'Rebuild in 2026" do you not understand?"
you desperately want to "talk baseball", but you don't do it in good faith.
I just don't want the Cardinals to suck next season like some of you seem OK with. I'm seeking solutions to avoid that while rebuilding.
okay....then come up with something viable...and I'm sorry to say this but something "Smart". You NEED innings....ask yourself how do those 2 give you innings? Look up their years, see how many innings they've thrown the last 4 years, then ask yourself again "how do those 2 give you innings? "Will they wreck my Bullpen?" "If we're not aiming to compete, then why make a horrible business decision on a likely 15-20 starts from either? And then having to pay someone else to cover their missed innings?"
May and Beuhler aren't smart decisions for a team with no foundation and drive to win in 2026. It's not 2003, the Cards don't have a foundation of MV3...there's no Carpenter for us to get right now.
Find people who can eat innings and live with that. If the offense can exceed expectations and outscore their opponents then so be it. Other than that, set yourself up for 2027 and 2028.
Duce what do you think about Merrill Kelly for innings in 26? Think he would sign a one year 15 mil contract? He can eat innings. Probably looking for longer term but I think he would be perfect for what they are looking for.
Duce, I also mentioned in another thread about trading with the Twins for Joe Kelly. Nice bounce back year and they have some youngsters that could take his place. He is getting close to making some money and the Twins are known to be a little tight. Thoughts on a Kelly trade?
at Merrill Kelly's age, do I expect him to replicate his steady 3 WAR output? No...not at 37, BUT....he's worth 15million...he'll eat the innings, and likely give you a chance to win...if your offense can outshine their putrid, bottom of the barrel performance from last year. 2-3 WAR is very possible from him in 2026...hell, chance he would exceed that, but not a good chance.
I like the MK suggestion...if you need a 2nd year on a contract from him, then certainly give it to him...you're likely to get his best effort in 2026, though...again father time isn't working for him...but he's doing one helluva job resisting.
edit ~ And "our Joe Kelly from 2009 draft"??? As a reliever? Didn't he miss all of 2025?
