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ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 08:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 00:01 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 22:20 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 17:38 pm

CCard wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 16:41 pm You're just another idiot that believes in the sanctity of tanking. The virtue of the fans suffering for years on end so they can hope to develop "Cheap" talent. Spare me your suction of DeWitt and the billionaire cheapskate club. Prices for talent aren't ever going to go down, they will consistently rise as the grocery store prices (that was promised to lower) keep rising. Spend the (drat) money or sell the team. Enough with the "but we can't compete" drum beat. Year in and year out you draw 3 million and that's on top of all the other revenue streams. Go to the sink and wash that awful taste out of your mouth.

For like the millionth time, no one is saying that the Cardinals owners won't eventually have to spend the $170, $180, $190 million that they are capable of when the team is really ready to "win now."

But we know the Cardinals have to spend smartly if they are going to compete with teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Blue Jays, etc. who will have much higher payrolls.

And part of spending smartly is knowing WHEN to spend to give yourself the best chance of winning, not just spending blindly now (when they certainly are not ready to "win now") only to find themselves holding another Arenado-like, Mikolas-like, etc. contract that keeps them from adding a piece later when they are ready to "win now."

The problem with the Arenado trade is the team wasn't ready for it.

People may talk about the '21 and '22 seasons as successes, but they weren't. The outfield in both years was a mess. Both years, the team had to grab two starters at the deadline.

In the Bloom years, he will grab an Arenado. Difference is, the team will be more put together.

In 2021, O'Neill and Bader won Gold Gloves. And O'Neill finished in the top ten (8th), in NL MVP voting. That's far from a "mess" of an outfield.

The Cardinals had the worst RF production in MLB in the first half of 2021.

Now do I blame TO and HB for their injuries? No. I blame Mo for roster construction.

Carlson finished with 18 hrs and 65 rbi. World's above the production out of Walker last season.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 11:42 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 08:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 00:01 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 22:20 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 17:38 pm

CCard wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 16:41 pm You're just another idiot that believes in the sanctity of tanking. The virtue of the fans suffering for years on end so they can hope to develop "Cheap" talent. Spare me your suction of DeWitt and the billionaire cheapskate club. Prices for talent aren't ever going to go down, they will consistently rise as the grocery store prices (that was promised to lower) keep rising. Spend the (drat) money or sell the team. Enough with the "but we can't compete" drum beat. Year in and year out you draw 3 million and that's on top of all the other revenue streams. Go to the sink and wash that awful taste out of your mouth.

For like the millionth time, no one is saying that the Cardinals owners won't eventually have to spend the $170, $180, $190 million that they are capable of when the team is really ready to "win now."

But we know the Cardinals have to spend smartly if they are going to compete with teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Blue Jays, etc. who will have much higher payrolls.

And part of spending smartly is knowing WHEN to spend to give yourself the best chance of winning, not just spending blindly now (when they certainly are not ready to "win now") only to find themselves holding another Arenado-like, Mikolas-like, etc. contract that keeps them from adding a piece later when they are ready to "win now."

The problem with the Arenado trade is the team wasn't ready for it.

People may talk about the '21 and '22 seasons as successes, but they weren't. The outfield in both years was a mess. Both years, the team had to grab two starters at the deadline.

In the Bloom years, he will grab an Arenado. Difference is, the team will be more put together.

In 2021, O'Neill and Bader won Gold Gloves. And O'Neill finished in the top ten (8th), in NL MVP voting. That's far from a "mess" of an outfield.

The Cardinals had the worst RF production in MLB in the first half of 2021.

Now do I blame TO and HB for their injuries? No. I blame Mo for roster construction.

Carlson finished with 18 hrs and 65 rbi. World's above the production out of Walker last season.

Similar to Herrera. Most of us like him.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 11:42 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 08:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 00:01 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 22:20 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 17:38 pm

CCard wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 16:41 pm You're just another idiot that believes in the sanctity of tanking. The virtue of the fans suffering for years on end so they can hope to develop "Cheap" talent. Spare me your suction of DeWitt and the billionaire cheapskate club. Prices for talent aren't ever going to go down, they will consistently rise as the grocery store prices (that was promised to lower) keep rising. Spend the (drat) money or sell the team. Enough with the "but we can't compete" drum beat. Year in and year out you draw 3 million and that's on top of all the other revenue streams. Go to the sink and wash that awful taste out of your mouth.

For like the millionth time, no one is saying that the Cardinals owners won't eventually have to spend the $170, $180, $190 million that they are capable of when the team is really ready to "win now."

But we know the Cardinals have to spend smartly if they are going to compete with teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Blue Jays, etc. who will have much higher payrolls.

And part of spending smartly is knowing WHEN to spend to give yourself the best chance of winning, not just spending blindly now (when they certainly are not ready to "win now") only to find themselves holding another Arenado-like, Mikolas-like, etc. contract that keeps them from adding a piece later when they are ready to "win now."

The problem with the Arenado trade is the team wasn't ready for it.

People may talk about the '21 and '22 seasons as successes, but they weren't. The outfield in both years was a mess. Both years, the team had to grab two starters at the deadline.

In the Bloom years, he will grab an Arenado. Difference is, the team will be more put together.

In 2021, O'Neill and Bader won Gold Gloves. And O'Neill finished in the top ten (8th), in NL MVP voting. That's far from a "mess" of an outfield.

The Cardinals had the worst RF production in MLB in the first half of 2021.

Now do I blame TO and HB for their injuries? No. I blame Mo for roster construction.

Carlson finished with 18 hrs and 65 rbi. World's above the production out of Walker last season.

Fact: The Cards had three good-to-really good OFers in 2021.
Fact: Two of those OFers lost a combined 3 months due to injuries in the first half.
Fact: The Cards had the worst RF production in the majors the first half of 2021.
Fact: Most of the time Edman was playing the OF, Matt Carpenter and his weak bat were at 2B.

The team simply had ZERO depth. And that was by design. Mo didn't want to put any other OFer on the roster who would be a threat or would want any playing time. Remember 2022 and Corey Dickerson? Similar situation. After the 2021 bench disaster, Mo wanted an upgrade who would ask for NO playing time...

Walker, Gorman have shown who they are. If you can find someone that believes they are getting in on the ground floor of a great player, take the trade.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 12:07 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 11:42 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 08:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 00:01 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 22:20 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 17:38 pm

CCard wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 16:41 pm You're just another idiot that believes in the sanctity of tanking. The virtue of the fans suffering for years on end so they can hope to develop "Cheap" talent. Spare me your suction of DeWitt and the billionaire cheapskate club. Prices for talent aren't ever going to go down, they will consistently rise as the grocery store prices (that was promised to lower) keep rising. Spend the (drat) money or sell the team. Enough with the "but we can't compete" drum beat. Year in and year out you draw 3 million and that's on top of all the other revenue streams. Go to the sink and wash that awful taste out of your mouth.

For like the millionth time, no one is saying that the Cardinals owners won't eventually have to spend the $170, $180, $190 million that they are capable of when the team is really ready to "win now."

But we know the Cardinals have to spend smartly if they are going to compete with teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Blue Jays, etc. who will have much higher payrolls.

And part of spending smartly is knowing WHEN to spend to give yourself the best chance of winning, not just spending blindly now (when they certainly are not ready to "win now") only to find themselves holding another Arenado-like, Mikolas-like, etc. contract that keeps them from adding a piece later when they are ready to "win now."

The problem with the Arenado trade is the team wasn't ready for it.

People may talk about the '21 and '22 seasons as successes, but they weren't. The outfield in both years was a mess. Both years, the team had to grab two starters at the deadline.

In the Bloom years, he will grab an Arenado. Difference is, the team will be more put together.

In 2021, O'Neill and Bader won Gold Gloves. And O'Neill finished in the top ten (8th), in NL MVP voting. That's far from a "mess" of an outfield.

The Cardinals had the worst RF production in MLB in the first half of 2021.

Now do I blame TO and HB for their injuries? No. I blame Mo for roster construction.

Carlson finished with 18 hrs and 65 rbi. World's above the production out of Walker last season.

Fact: The Cards had three good-to-really good OFers in 2021.
Fact: Two of those OFers lost a combined 3 months due to injuries in the first half.
Fact: The Cards had the worst RF production in the majors the first half of 2021.
Fact: Most of the time Edman was playing the OF, Matt Carpenter and his weak bat were at 2B.

The team simply had ZERO depth. And that was by design. Mo didn't want to put any other OFer on the roster who would be a threat or would want any playing time. Remember 2022 and Corey Dickerson? Similar situation. After the 2021 bench disaster, Mo wanted an upgrade who would ask for NO playing time...

Fair enough. The three main guys ended with good seasons. But as you pointed out (factually ), there was lost time due to injuries.

I agree that Johnny bow ties and his perpetual dolessness hurt the team by not adding a solid #4. But what else did we expect from the dry powder king? What a putz.

Only players off limits to me are about 10-12 minor leaguers. JJ, Doyle, both Baez, Franklin, Matthews, Rodriguez, Padilla, one of Bernal/Crooks and Mitchel. (Okay, maybe a couple other I am not thinking of.

Of the 3 NTC guys, I would listen to offers and throw in cash to sweeten the return. If we get stuck with one, so be it.

Pretty much anybody on the 26 man is available for the right package. Liberator, Donavan or Winn would take a hefty return. Lib was rushed to the majors to prove Mo’s Arozerena trade didn’t look as bad.

Jordan Walker – No way I’m selling low. Only 4 months older than JJ Weatherholt. 4 MONTHS! Start in AAA for at LEAST 3 months. Rushed to the Majors TOO SOON.

Nolan Gorman - I’d be tempted to do the same, start in AAA if possible. Does he become a 30 homer basher who can’t hit for average. That’s worth more than he is now. Rushed to the Majors TOO SOON. Do I sense a theme?

I really believe this should be a tear down to the studs. Maybe not the foundation, but this team with tweaks will be nothing but Mo 2.0.

I can say I am excited to see the end of this world series. Once over we will see if Bloom is going to be active or not. Between end of WS and February is the time to revamp the team. I believe we will have many opinions on how it is going.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 18:14 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 12:07 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 11:42 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 08:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 00:01 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 22:20 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 17:38 pm

CCard wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 16:41 pm You're just another idiot that believes in the sanctity of tanking. The virtue of the fans suffering for years on end so they can hope to develop "Cheap" talent. Spare me your suction of DeWitt and the billionaire cheapskate club. Prices for talent aren't ever going to go down, they will consistently rise as the grocery store prices (that was promised to lower) keep rising. Spend the (drat) money or sell the team. Enough with the "but we can't compete" drum beat. Year in and year out you draw 3 million and that's on top of all the other revenue streams. Go to the sink and wash that awful taste out of your mouth.

For like the millionth time, no one is saying that the Cardinals owners won't eventually have to spend the $170, $180, $190 million that they are capable of when the team is really ready to "win now."

But we know the Cardinals have to spend smartly if they are going to compete with teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Blue Jays, etc. who will have much higher payrolls.

And part of spending smartly is knowing WHEN to spend to give yourself the best chance of winning, not just spending blindly now (when they certainly are not ready to "win now") only to find themselves holding another Arenado-like, Mikolas-like, etc. contract that keeps them from adding a piece later when they are ready to "win now."

The problem with the Arenado trade is the team wasn't ready for it.

People may talk about the '21 and '22 seasons as successes, but they weren't. The outfield in both years was a mess. Both years, the team had to grab two starters at the deadline.

In the Bloom years, he will grab an Arenado. Difference is, the team will be more put together.

In 2021, O'Neill and Bader won Gold Gloves. And O'Neill finished in the top ten (8th), in NL MVP voting. That's far from a "mess" of an outfield.

The Cardinals had the worst RF production in MLB in the first half of 2021.

Now do I blame TO and HB for their injuries? No. I blame Mo for roster construction.

Carlson finished with 18 hrs and 65 rbi. World's above the production out of Walker last season.

Fact: The Cards had three good-to-really good OFers in 2021.
Fact: Two of those OFers lost a combined 3 months due to injuries in the first half.
Fact: The Cards had the worst RF production in the majors the first half of 2021.
Fact: Most of the time Edman was playing the OF, Matt Carpenter and his weak bat were at 2B.

The team simply had ZERO depth. And that was by design. Mo didn't want to put any other OFer on the roster who would be a threat or would want any playing time. Remember 2022 and Corey Dickerson? Similar situation. After the 2021 bench disaster, Mo wanted an upgrade who would ask for NO playing time...

Fair enough. The three main guys ended with good seasons. But as you pointed out (factually ), there was lost time due to injuries.

I agree that Johnny bow ties and his perpetual dolessness hurt the team by not adding a solid #4. But what else did we expect from the dry powder king? What a putz.

lol, sorry for being a little stern. I was working and trying to get to the point.

I remember we had traded for NA, and by opening day 2021, Justin Williams is starting in the OF, Hicks is being deployed for two inning starts and Gant was in the rotation. And of course DeJong is garbage.

The roster was a mess.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 21:08 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 18:14 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 12:07 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 11:42 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 08:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑22 Oct 2025 00:01 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 22:20 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 17:38 pm

CCard wrote: ↑21 Oct 2025 16:41 pm You're just another idiot that believes in the sanctity of tanking. The virtue of the fans suffering for years on end so they can hope to develop "Cheap" talent. Spare me your suction of DeWitt and the billionaire cheapskate club. Prices for talent aren't ever going to go down, they will consistently rise as the grocery store prices (that was promised to lower) keep rising. Spend the (drat) money or sell the team. Enough with the "but we can't compete" drum beat. Year in and year out you draw 3 million and that's on top of all the other revenue streams. Go to the sink and wash that awful taste out of your mouth.

For like the millionth time, no one is saying that the Cardinals owners won't eventually have to spend the $170, $180, $190 million that they are capable of when the team is really ready to "win now."

But we know the Cardinals have to spend smartly if they are going to compete with teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Phillies, Blue Jays, etc. who will have much higher payrolls.

And part of spending smartly is knowing WHEN to spend to give yourself the best chance of winning, not just spending blindly now (when they certainly are not ready to "win now") only to find themselves holding another Arenado-like, Mikolas-like, etc. contract that keeps them from adding a piece later when they are ready to "win now."

The problem with the Arenado trade is the team wasn't ready for it.

People may talk about the '21 and '22 seasons as successes, but they weren't. The outfield in both years was a mess. Both years, the team had to grab two starters at the deadline.

In the Bloom years, he will grab an Arenado. Difference is, the team will be more put together.

In 2021, O'Neill and Bader won Gold Gloves. And O'Neill finished in the top ten (8th), in NL MVP voting. That's far from a "mess" of an outfield.

The Cardinals had the worst RF production in MLB in the first half of 2021.

Now do I blame TO and HB for their injuries? No. I blame Mo for roster construction.

Carlson finished with 18 hrs and 65 rbi. World's above the production out of Walker last season.

Fact: The Cards had three good-to-really good OFers in 2021.
Fact: Two of those OFers lost a combined 3 months due to injuries in the first half.
Fact: The Cards had the worst RF production in the majors the first half of 2021.
Fact: Most of the time Edman was playing the OF, Matt Carpenter and his weak bat were at 2B.

The team simply had ZERO depth. And that was by design. Mo didn't want to put any other OFer on the roster who would be a threat or would want any playing time. Remember 2022 and Corey Dickerson? Similar situation. After the 2021 bench disaster, Mo wanted an upgrade who would ask for NO playing time...

Fair enough. The three main guys ended with good seasons. But as you pointed out (factually ), there was lost time due to injuries.

I agree that Johnny bow ties and his perpetual dolessness hurt the team by not adding a solid #4. But what else did we expect from the dry powder king? What a putz.

lol, sorry for being a little stern. I was working and trying to get to the point.

I remember we had traded for NA, and by opening day 2021, Justin Williams is starting in the OF, Hicks is being deployed for two inning starts and Gant was in the rotation. And of course DeJong is garbage.

The roster was a mess.

No problems! I was just having fun. Yikes! I forgot about Justin Williams. And John Gant. That Mo really put a half-[ashed] roster together.