STLtoday.com

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 20:38 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 13:09 pm

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 12:48 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 12:32 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 08:58 am -Terrible in game Manager, gets out maneuvered by other teams Manager

-Shows no creativity helping his offensively challenged team score runs

-Poor lineup construction

-Plays favorites (re: Burleson, Siani, Pages) too much

-Froze in the most important game of his career, Game 1 vs Phillies

- #1 Reason:
Has Mo's STANK all over him! Returning him is nothing more than a continuation of the slide this team has taken under his leadership


The one thing he's finally doing well is running the bullpen.

Other than that he's been over-his-head from the day he was hired and has shown very little GROWTH.

Bringing him back would be a huge marketing mistake, Oli back will NOT sell tickets.

C. Bloom deserves to bring in his Manager w/an almost all new coaching staff (I may keep J. Jay/D. Descalso if I was Bloom).

This has to be a 100% fresh start or BDWJr has failed again.

JMO

Im not a huge Oli hater but I dont think he elevates anyone either. Rocks #1 reason is good enough for me and can't be over stated.

Agreed. It'd be one thing if Mo was retiring on top or recently on top. But this will likely be the 3rd straight season they don't make the playoffs, with the 2023 disaster in there. Why would you keep a significant residual element of a failing regime? What message does that send?

The message RR would be:
"DON'T buy tickets since you're going to see the same team, being run by the same field Manager, you've been seeing since his hire"!

Precisely my point.

If the team constructed will be somewhat determined on attendance, why would you make a move that depresses attendance?

Besides, bringing Oli back would be immediately taken as Bloom has limited authority from ownership, regardless of the truth of it. However Bloom personally views Oli, he must see the signal it would send to fans keeping him. Fans would just see him as POBO with limited independence.

Bingo!

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 16:03 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 12:53 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:52 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:40 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:36 am Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 16:03 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 12:53 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:52 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:40 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:36 am Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 16:03 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 12:53 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:52 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:40 am

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...

bccardsfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:04 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 16:03 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 12:53 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:52 am

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...

And we still play .500 ball. What is responsible for that. Sad state of league, mediocre team, poor leader. Luck.

Would another system of leadership gotten more from this team? That’s the question of potential. If so, need a change, if not, the change is in the players.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:08 am

bccardsfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:04 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 16:03 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 12:53 pm

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...

And we still play .500 ball. What is responsible for that. Sad state of league, mediocre team, poor leader. Luck.

Would another system of leadership gotten more from this team? That’s the question of potential. If so, need a change, if not, the change is in the players.

Yes, I do believe this team could be a little better. More emphasis on trying to manufacture runs. Less days with unfocused effort (commonly once or twice a week). And a mindset that demands excellence. This team possesses none of this. Players have bad games and make delusional statements about "having good stuff" or "taking good swings". Then as mentioned earlier, you see guys laughing it up in the dugout while they are getting drilled on the field.

This leads to what we've had the last 3 years. Mediocrity at best. The team needs a leader. A proven winner. A guy with swagger that can back it up. Not this arrogant pud with no cred.

Oli is too busy trying to be their friend than being a Manager who leads. When things are going good, you can pat them on the back and tell them how well they are doing, but when things are going bad, as they are now, you don’t do that!!!
You don’t tell them, oh, it’s ok, you tried your best, you’ll do better tomorrow!
I was always my team’s biggest encourager, but when they messed up, a lot, and often, they knew that too. A coach or manager has to set standards of play, and be ready to enforce it. Sometimes things just don’t go your way, that’s the nature of the game, but you can’t keep using that as an excuse on a regular basis!

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:08 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:08 am

bccardsfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:04 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 16:03 pm

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...

And we still play .500 ball. What is responsible for that. Sad state of league, mediocre team, poor leader. Luck.

Would another system of leadership gotten more from this team? That’s the question of potential. If so, need a change, if not, the change is in the players.

Yes, I do believe this team could be a little better. More emphasis on trying to manufacture runs. Less days with unfocused effort (commonly once or twice a week). And a mindset that demands excellence. This team possesses none of this. Players have bad games and make delusional statements about "having good stuff" or "taking good swings". Then as mentioned earlier, you see guys laughing it up in the dugout while they are getting drilled on the field.

This leads to what we've had the last 3 years. Mediocrity at best. The team needs a leader. A proven winner. A guy with swagger that can back it up. Not this arrogant pud with no cred.

You all need to stop with the no experience thing. He's had plenty of experience managing. He seems to be a good guy in life too. Does he make mistakes managing? Of course, they all do. Does his style of play make him a target? Well, you play the cards you're dealt. He can't turn Gorman into a contact hitter. He can't turn Noot into a 30 homer guy. He can't make Mikolas, Fedde or Pallante into a number 1 pitcher. Why he gets so much hatred is a question that some of you should pose while looking in the mirror. You bring up Contreras, some of you, and you have to admit Contreras is a kind of a jerk. He was with the Cubs and he still is now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Marmol

Maybe you guys should (buzz) and moan about the quality of talent this team puts on the field instead of beating a dead horse about the manager. I assume my words will go over some of you all's heads.

CCard wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:27 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:08 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:08 am

bccardsfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:04 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...

And we still play .500 ball. What is responsible for that. Sad state of league, mediocre team, poor leader. Luck.

Would another system of leadership gotten more from this team? That’s the question of potential. If so, need a change, if not, the change is in the players.

Yes, I do believe this team could be a little better. More emphasis on trying to manufacture runs. Less days with unfocused effort (commonly once or twice a week). And a mindset that demands excellence. This team possesses none of this. Players have bad games and make delusional statements about "having good stuff" or "taking good swings". Then as mentioned earlier, you see guys laughing it up in the dugout while they are getting drilled on the field.

This leads to what we've had the last 3 years. Mediocrity at best. The team needs a leader. A proven winner. A guy with swagger that can back it up. Not this arrogant pud with no cred.

You all need to stop with the no experience thing. He's had plenty of experience managing. He seems to be a good guy in life too. Does he make mistakes managing? Of course, they all do. Does his style of play make him a target? Well, you play the cards you're dealt. He can't turn Gorman into a contact hitter. He can't turn Noot into a 30 homer guy. He can't make Mikolas, Fedde or Pallante into a number 1 pitcher. Why he gets so much hatred is a question that some of you should pose while looking in the mirror. You bring up Contreras, some of you, and you have to admit Contreras is a kind of a jerk. He was with the Cubs and he still is now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Marmol

Maybe you guys should (A female canine animal, especially a dog) and moan about the quality of talent this team puts on the field instead of beating a dead horse about the manager. I assume my words will go over some of you all's heads.

The Contreras situation is exactly what Managers are supposed to handle. In the manager's office. Not in public like he did with O'Neill.

CCard wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:27 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:08 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:08 am

bccardsfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:04 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...

And we still play .500 ball. What is responsible for that. Sad state of league, mediocre team, poor leader. Luck.

Would another system of leadership gotten more from this team? That’s the question of potential. If so, need a change, if not, the change is in the players.

Yes, I do believe this team could be a little better. More emphasis on trying to manufacture runs. Less days with unfocused effort (commonly once or twice a week). And a mindset that demands excellence. This team possesses none of this. Players have bad games and make delusional statements about "having good stuff" or "taking good swings". Then as mentioned earlier, you see guys laughing it up in the dugout while they are getting drilled on the field.

This leads to what we've had the last 3 years. Mediocrity at best. The team needs a leader. A proven winner. A guy with swagger that can back it up. Not this arrogant pud with no cred.

You all need to stop with the no experience thing. He's had plenty of experience managing. He seems to be a good guy in life too. Does he make mistakes managing? Of course, they all do. Does his style of play make him a target? Well, you play the cards you're dealt. He can't turn Gorman into a contact hitter. He can't turn Noot into a 30 homer guy. He can't make Mikolas, Fedde or Pallante into a number 1 pitcher. Why he gets so much hatred is a question that some of you should pose while looking in the mirror. You bring up Contreras, some of you, and you have to admit Contreras is a kind of a jerk. He was with the Cubs and he still is now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Marmol

Maybe you guys should (A female canine animal, especially a dog) and moan about the quality of talent this team puts on the field instead of beating a dead horse about the manager. I assume my words will go over some of you all's heads.

So oli throwing Contreras under the bus for a [shirt]ty pitching staff (even when it was proven to not be his fault), is OK because you conceived Willson to be a jerk on the Cubs?

But oli showing major jerk tendencies (arrogance, condescending attitude, and trashing players and umpires in the media), leads you to perceive him as a good guy?

Interesting.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 16:03 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 12:53 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:52 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:40 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:36 am Not an Olli hater. Via experience he's gotten better. With a team with no superstars and a weak rotation, he is managing a .500 team. There is no bickering in the clubhouse. He's done a credible job with the pen even following trading off the 3 top performers. I'd rather have a more experienced manager and very credible manager, but wouldn't hate Chaim if he kept Olli until the talent improved.

My guess is Marmol gets another year but if attendance doesn't improve someone will have to take the fall and it won't be Bloom. Or perhaps Bloom has his own manager in mind which would make sense.

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

He should have been more tactful in how he handled Contreras, but the result has been that Contreras has no business catching. Hence first base. Just a convoluted way to get there. Perpetrated as much by the FO as the manager.

bccardsfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:04 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:08 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 16:03 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 12:53 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 11:52 am

I agree. But, management is seldom to blame for poor team performance. As I suggested, if Bloom wants to hold off trying to foist this team on a highly acclaimed manager until the talent visibly improves, I can live with that. I think we will be better next year, so wouldn't be surprised if the axe falls at some point.

Frankly, if Bloom wants to put some training wheels on Yadi next year I'm OK with that too. I realize Yadi has some experience managing Latin American teams, WBC teams etc. But, nothing like a 162 game season with a problematic 26 man roster.

The stunt he pulled on O'Neill was amateurish. I never saw Torre or LaRussa do that. That stuff takes place in the manager's office. Having said that I can see him getting another year.

That was ancient history. His first and very frustrating year.

I worked for an incompetent boss or 2 who would pull stunts like that to cover for their own shortcomings. I'm not a fan of people like that.

I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...

That was Cubbie thinking formalized by Lou Brock when he first arrived to St Louis. You don't play grabas.s, but you don't have to prove you have the longest face in the dugout.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 13:13 pm

CCard wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:27 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:08 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:08 am

bccardsfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:04 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm
I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...

And we still play .500 ball. What is responsible for that. Sad state of league, mediocre team, poor leader. Luck.

Would another system of leadership gotten more from this team? That’s the question of potential. If so, need a change, if not, the change is in the players.

Yes, I do believe this team could be a little better. More emphasis on trying to manufacture runs. Less days with unfocused effort (commonly once or twice a week). And a mindset that demands excellence. This team possesses none of this. Players have bad games and make delusional statements about "having good stuff" or "taking good swings". Then as mentioned earlier, you see guys laughing it up in the dugout while they are getting drilled on the field.

This leads to what we've had the last 3 years. Mediocrity at best. The team needs a leader. A proven winner. A guy with swagger that can back it up. Not this arrogant pud with no cred.

You all need to stop with the no experience thing. He's had plenty of experience managing. He seems to be a good guy in life too. Does he make mistakes managing? Of course, they all do. Does his style of play make him a target? Well, you play the cards you're dealt. He can't turn Gorman into a contact hitter. He can't turn Noot into a 30 homer guy. He can't make Mikolas, Fedde or Pallante into a number 1 pitcher. Why he gets so much hatred is a question that some of you should pose while looking in the mirror. You bring up Contreras, some of you, and you have to admit Contreras is a kind of a jerk. He was with the Cubs and he still is now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Marmol

Maybe you guys should (A female canine animal, especially a dog) and moan about the quality of talent this team puts on the field instead of beating a dead horse about the manager. I assume my words will go over some of you all's heads.

So oli throwing Contreras under the bus for a [shirt]ty pitching staff (even when it was proven to not be his fault), is OK because you conceived Willson to be a jerk on the Cubs?

But oli showing major jerk tendencies (arrogance, condescending attitude, and trashing players and umpires in the media), leads you to perceive him as a good guy?

Interesting.

Reading his bio, he sounds like a Christian family man, though to be fair that's a low bar now days. Contreras is a jerk. He was a jerk when he insulted Yadi. His actions are that of a jerk, game in and game out, but he's OUR jerk. Contreras was not good defensively behind the plate. As for handling the pitching staff? Well, he had a high standard to live up to and I'm not sure any catcher that have could come close to that bar. Arrogance, condescending, trashing players (who?), umpires? Show me a manager that doesn't put off those vibes. Schildt sure did. LaRussa was famous for it. He told Ozzie that SS would be given to who played the best, then he gave it to Clayton anyway even though Ozzie worked hard and outplayed him. Save your platitudes. It's obvious that you have an axe to grind with Oli. If they were winning you'd find some other reason to trash him. Personally, I don't care if they get another manager or not. Without the on field talent no manager will win consistently.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:34 pm

CCard wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:27 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 12:08 pm

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:08 am

bccardsfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 10:04 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:32 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 09:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 07:47 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 00:56 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:34 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:30 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑15 Aug 2025 17:25 pm
I wouldn't call that a stunt. He really thought that O'Neill should have scored. Microphones are everywhere for managers.

Calling O'Neill out in the post game was bad enough. But oli doubled down the following morning during the pre game. That was a clown act.

A rookie mistake.

OK. So a month later, oli threw Contreras under the bus for the terrible pitching issues. Only problem was the pitching was even worse with Knizner catching. So again oli looked like a clown. So did he make the same "rookie mistake" of throwing a player under the bus twice? If so, he's not only a poor leader, he's also too stupid to learn from past mistakes.

To say and do what he did came naturally for him nd speaks of his internal thinking. Now, after the fact, he “ learns better.” No. Should have at this level, already known better. That stands out to me.

I agree, Bulldog. Even if you make a mistake of calling out a guy in the heat of the moment after the game, you make up for it. You DO NOT double down and do it again the next day.

It speaks to bias of the mind. His first comments were “himself.” Once it was perceived as not good, we suddenly say he has “ learned;” well, at this level, a wicked tongue should have long ago been placed in check.

It’s who he is. It’s how he thinks. Now, he simply keeps that part of the darkness hidden.

But it still exists.

The guy is not a leader. That has been obvious from day one. When you are on a losing streak and down by a big score and you are joking with guys in the dugout..... that is not trying to create a winning culture. Add that to the LONG list of his failings as a manager...

And we still play .500 ball. What is responsible for that. Sad state of league, mediocre team, poor leader. Luck.

Would another system of leadership gotten more from this team? That’s the question of potential. If so, need a change, if not, the change is in the players.

Yes, I do believe this team could be a little better. More emphasis on trying to manufacture runs. Less days with unfocused effort (commonly once or twice a week). And a mindset that demands excellence. This team possesses none of this. Players have bad games and make delusional statements about "having good stuff" or "taking good swings". Then as mentioned earlier, you see guys laughing it up in the dugout while they are getting drilled on the field.

This leads to what we've had the last 3 years. Mediocrity at best. The team needs a leader. A proven winner. A guy with swagger that can back it up. Not this arrogant pud with no cred.

You all need to stop with the no experience thing. He's had plenty of experience managing. He seems to be a good guy in life too. Does he make mistakes managing? Of course, they all do. Does his style of play make him a target? Well, you play the cards you're dealt. He can't turn Gorman into a contact hitter. He can't turn Noot into a 30 homer guy. He can't make Mikolas, Fedde or Pallante into a number 1 pitcher. Why he gets so much hatred is a question that some of you should pose while looking in the mirror. You bring up Contreras, some of you, and you have to admit Contreras is a kind of a jerk. He was with the Cubs and he still is now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Marmol

Maybe you guys should (A female canine animal, especially a dog) and moan about the quality of talent this team puts on the field instead of beating a dead horse about the manager. I assume my words will go over some of you all's heads.

The Contreras situation is exactly what Managers are supposed to handle. In the manager's office. Not in public like he did with O'Neill.

When a manager benches a player for not hustling, he doesn't have to say anything. The whole world and the player already know what it's for. Benching is about as public as it can get. I remember LaRussa and a certain reliever having a very public spat also.

My views on Oli are well known.

But, regarding the handling of Contreras, his ability as a catcher, etc.

Our lineup would be much better today with Contreras behind the plate.

Noone can convince me that Pages is a better overall catcher than Contreras. Not even close. Contreras catching opens up more ABs for actual guys with offensive upside rather than Pages.

Then in ‘26 you could have sprinkled Crooks into a catcher platoon and given Contreras ABs at 1B/DH here and there against RHP. Then in ‘27 its Crooks/Bernal time.

The favoritism of Pages has created issues as well.

Contreras was good enough behind the plate to lead a World Series Champion. But not good enough for Oli and Waino.

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 15:46 pm My views on Oli are well known.

But, regarding the handling of Contreras, his ability as a catcher, etc.

Our lineup would be much better today with Contreras behind the plate.

Noone can convince me that Pages is a better overall catcher than Contreras. Not even close. Contreras catching opens up more ABs for actual guys with offensive upside rather than Pages.

Then in ‘26 you could have sprinkled Crooks into a catcher platoon and given Contreras ABs at 1B/DH here and there against RHP. Then in ‘27 its Crooks/Bernal time.

The favoritism of Pages has created issues as well.

Contreras was good enough behind the plate to lead a World Series Champion. But not good enough for Oli and Waino.

Crazy how long this post is, but you never bring up the fact that Herrera was supposed to be the catcher in 2025.

You don’t really think that Oli chose Pages over WC, thus moving WC to 1b?

Unfortunately, Herrera had injuries and struggles at catcher that made the team pivot.

Few others things:
1. We don’t know who the pitchers like. But from the looks of it, it seems they enjoy pitching to Pages.
2. After a rough first two weeks of the season, WC has round an .845 ops with crazy rbi production. Good numbers for a 1b.
3. And, knock on wood, Conteras has been healthy.

I like WC at 1b. I don’t really care if Burleson or whoever also plays 1b. It’s not like he’s blocking the next Goldschmidt…