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Posted: **28 Apr 2025 16:37 pm**

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:35 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:34 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:32 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:28 pm
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:21 pm This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.

Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
The odd thing is that I believe the Cardinals have a good idea what they have in Saggese. They aren't sure about Walker and Gorman. So they are giving Walker and Gorman the chance to be more definitive. It's not like the Cardinals seem to be serious contenders at this point. They might as well see what they have in Walker and Gorman.
Yes, after 96 MLB PA’s they know exactly what they have in Saggese, but after 1,232 MLB PA’s and 744 MLB PA’s they don’t know what they have in Gorman and Walker.
An astute baseball evaluator would have a pretty good idea.
But they wouldn’t after 700+ MLB PA’s? Especially when they drafted and developed both Walker/Gorman while trading for Saggese after he had had success into AA?

Actually, there are still more question marks about Walker and Gorman as consistent hitters within the organization than Saggese. IMO Frankly, a lot of serious fans also probably feel that way.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 16:39 pm**

Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:37 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:35 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:34 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:32 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:28 pm
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:21 pm This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.

Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
The odd thing is that I believe the Cardinals have a good idea what they have in Saggese. They aren't sure about Walker and Gorman. So they are giving Walker and Gorman the chance to be more definitive. It's not like the Cardinals seem to be serious contenders at this point. They might as well see what they have in Walker and Gorman.
Yes, after 96 MLB PA’s they know exactly what they have in Saggese, but after 1,232 MLB PA’s and 744 MLB PA’s they don’t know what they have in Gorman and Walker.
An astute baseball evaluator would have a pretty good idea.
But they wouldn’t after 700+ MLB PA’s? Especially when they drafted and developed both Walker/Gorman while trading for Saggese after he had had success into AA?
Actually, there are still more question marks about Walker and Gorman as consistent hitters than Saggese. IMO

How are there more? Before the last 44 PAs, Saggese had a .556 career MLB OPS. Does the last 44 PAs change everything? What happens if the next 44 PAs go south? Does that again change your opinion?

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 16:41 pm**

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:39 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:37 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:35 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:34 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:32 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:28 pm
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:21 pm This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.

Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
The odd thing is that I believe the Cardinals have a good idea what they have in Saggese. They aren't sure about Walker and Gorman. So they are giving Walker and Gorman the chance to be more definitive. It's not like the Cardinals seem to be serious contenders at this point. They might as well see what they have in Walker and Gorman.
Yes, after 96 MLB PA’s they know exactly what they have in Saggese, but after 1,232 MLB PA’s and 744 MLB PA’s they don’t know what they have in Gorman and Walker.
An astute baseball evaluator would have a pretty good idea.
But they wouldn’t after 700+ MLB PA’s? Especially when they drafted and developed both Walker/Gorman while trading for Saggese after he had had success into AA?
Actually, there are still more question marks about Walker and Gorman as consistent hitters than Saggese. IMO
How are there more? Before the last 44 PAs, Saggese had a .556 career MLB OPS. Does the last 44 PAs change everything? What happens if the next 44 PAs go south? Does that again change your opinion?

I could say it's a simple eyeball evaluation. But look at the stats this season. Maybe some others could give their opinions. Who do they feel is the better hitting prospect, overall, right now? Walker, Gorman or Saggese.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 16:51 pm**

Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:41 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:39 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:37 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:35 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:34 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:32 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:28 pm
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:21 pm This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.

Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
The odd thing is that I believe the Cardinals have a good idea what they have in Saggese. They aren't sure about Walker and Gorman. So they are giving Walker and Gorman the chance to be more definitive. It's not like the Cardinals seem to be serious contenders at this point. They might as well see what they have in Walker and Gorman.
Yes, after 96 MLB PA’s they know exactly what they have in Saggese, but after 1,232 MLB PA’s and 744 MLB PA’s they don’t know what they have in Gorman and Walker.
An astute baseball evaluator would have a pretty good idea.
But they wouldn’t after 700+ MLB PA’s? Especially when they drafted and developed both Walker/Gorman while trading for Saggese after he had had success into AA?
Actually, there are still more question marks about Walker and Gorman as consistent hitters than Saggese. IMO
How are there more? Before the last 44 PAs, Saggese had a .556 career MLB OPS. Does the last 44 PAs change everything? What happens if the next 44 PAs go south? Does that again change your opinion?
I could say it's a simple eyeball evaluation. But look at the stats this season. Maybe some others could give their opinions. Who do you feel is the better hiiting prospect, overall, right now? Walker, Gorman or Saggese.

He’s got a .433 BABIP right now. From last year’s SSS MLB exposure, his outside the zone% improved a little, his contact% is down, his outside the zone contact% is way up. He’s striking out at 25% and walking at 4%, not a good recipe of success.

I like Saggese as a prospect/talent and best case scenario for him I see a player like Michael Young. Solid defender, fan favorite, 40 double/20 HR/90 RBI/won’t walk a lot type of player if everything goes right. But I still don’t think his 44 PA this year proves everything just like his 52 PAs last year didn’t mean all that much to me either. And I certainly wouldn’t say that he’s anymore of a guarantee or has less questions than guys like Gorman and Walker.

Right now between where they are at and upside combined, I’d put them 1. Gorman 2. Walker 3. Saggese

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 17:28 pm**

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:51 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:41 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:39 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:37 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:35 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:34 pm
Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:32 pm
Shady wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:28 pm
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:21 pm This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.

Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
The odd thing is that I believe the Cardinals have a good idea what they have in Saggese. They aren't sure about Walker and Gorman. So they are giving Walker and Gorman the chance to be more definitive. It's not like the Cardinals seem to be serious contenders at this point. They might as well see what they have in Walker and Gorman.
Yes, after 96 MLB PA’s they know exactly what they have in Saggese, but after 1,232 MLB PA’s and 744 MLB PA’s they don’t know what they have in Gorman and Walker.
An astute baseball evaluator would have a pretty good idea.
But they wouldn’t after 700+ MLB PA’s? Especially when they drafted and developed both Walker/Gorman while trading for Saggese after he had had success into AA?
Actually, there are still more question marks about Walker and Gorman as consistent hitters than Saggese. IMO
How are there more? Before the last 44 PAs, Saggese had a .556 career MLB OPS. Does the last 44 PAs change everything? What happens if the next 44 PAs go south? Does that again change your opinion?
I could say it's a simple eyeball evaluation. But look at the stats this season. Maybe some others could give their opinions. Who do you feel is the better hiiting prospect, overall, right now? Walker, Gorman or Saggese.
He’s got a .433 BABIP right now. From last year’s SSS MLB exposure, his outside the zone% improved a little, his contact% is down, his outside the zone contact% is way up. He’s striking out at 25% and walking at 4%, not a good recipe of success.

I like Saggese as a prospect/talent and best case scenario for him I see a player like Michael Young. Solid defender, fan favorite, 40 double/20 HR/90 RBI/won’t walk a lot type of player if everything goes right. But I still don’t think his 44 PA this year proves everything just like his 52 PAs last year didn’t mean all that much to me either. And I certainly wouldn’t say that he’s anymore of a guarantee or has less questions than guys like Gorman and Walker.

Right now between where they are at and upside combined, I’d put them 1. Gorman 2. Walker 3. Saggese

"Right now between where they are at and upside combined, I’d put them 1. Gorman 2. Walker 3. Saggese." Yep, the upside for Walker and Gorman is there. I keep hearing people that have been around Saggese talk about Saggese's intangibles on top of his talent.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 17:36 pm**

I guess the question is how many chances does Baker get? Even if he turns into another Garcia somewhere else, he won't be that player here. Saggese should stay, get platoon/spot starts, learn at this level.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 17:42 pm**

smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 17:36 pm I guess the question is how many chances does Baker get? Even if he turns into another Garcia somewhere else, he won't be that player here. Saggese should stay, get platoon/spot starts, learn at this level.

I think he needs to play everyday. Young players don’t usually do well with reduced playing time

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 17:52 pm**

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 13:36 pm
Wattage wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 13:34 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 13:19 pm Looks like Loutos got the DFA.
Not that im high on loutos, im not. But why are we dfaing him when hes pitched okay at memphis and didnt get scorched when he was up here last year granted he is old for the minors at 26, but meanwhile riley o brien is 30- pitched horribky with us last year(or any time hes been in majors), and didnt pitch well in memphis- and again is 30 and definitely not a part of the future.

Seeks like riley o brien should be first guy dfad.
Most likely they feel nobody will claim Loutos. O’Brien would get picked up by someone. 14 K’s in 7 IP in AAA this year.

I have my doubts obrien would be claimed. Its possible, but he is 30 years old and his strikeouts mean less in AAA considering he is 30. He was bad in his most mlb action last year. Andnhe didnt even have success at the triple A level until age 28.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 17:53 pm**

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 17:42 pm
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 17:36 pm I guess the question is how many chances does Baker get? Even if he turns into another Garcia somewhere else, he won't be that player here. Saggese should stay, get platoon/spot starts, learn at this level.
I think he needs to play everyday. Young players don’t usually do well with reduced playing time

Inagree he needs at bats, but the question is should walker and burly be getting rehular playing time over him or should they be the ones going to memphis

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 17:54 pm**

Searching for 3 guys to fill out the team?

C Pages or Crooks or Bernal or Pozo
DH Herrera / Herrera / Herrera
1B Contreras / Conteras / Contreras
2B Gorman or Saggese or Barrero or Wetherholt
SS Winn / Winn / Winn
3B Arenado / Arenado / Arenado
LF Donovan / Donovan / Donovan
OF Scott or Walker or Siani or Torres or Davis
RF Nootbar / Nootbar / Nootbar

Yes, Herrera as DH is a reach but he's hitting so far. Gorman and Walker are also DH candidates if they can outhit Herrera.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 19:01 pm**

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 17:42 pm
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 17:36 pm I guess the question is how many chances does Baker get? Even if he turns into another Garcia somewhere else, he won't be that player here. Saggese should stay, get platoon/spot starts, learn at this level.
I think he needs to play everyday. Young players don’t usually do well with reduced playing time

Which is a fair take when deciding between Saggese and Barrero.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 19:10 pm**

27
nice uni # Barrero got

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 19:17 pm**

cardstatman wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 17:54 pm Searching for 3 guys to fill out the team?

C Pages or Crooks or Bernal or Pozo
DH Herrera / Herrera / Herrera
1B Contreras / Conteras / Contreras
2B Gorman or Saggese or Barrero or Wetherholt
SS Winn / Winn / Winn
3B Arenado / Arenado / Arenado
LF Donovan / Donovan / Donovan
OF Scott or Walker or Siani or Torres or Davis
RF Nootbar / Nootbar / Nootbar

Yes, Herrera as DH is a reach but he's hitting so far. Gorman and Walker are also DH candidates if they can outhit Herrera.

As a LH alternative to Herrera at DH, time for Koperniak.
Saggese will get his shot, there are legitimate reasons to like Barrero being the SS guy and not needing DH bats etc.

JJ not yet, especially now. One less 1B is ideal.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 19:19 pm**

thetank2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 09:04 am
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑27 Apr 2025 23:15 pm The decision makers in this organization are brain dead. This outfit would finish below. 500 with the 2004 roster all in their prime. These dumb[ash] would've demoted Yadi for not hitting, moved Edmonds to 2nd base, and would've told Albert to hit left-handed.
How they averaged 90 wins from 2008-2022 is shocking. Or 1 losing season since 2007.

1. TLR, Pujols, Molina, Carpenter, Wainwright, Holliday, Beltran, and Berkman.

2. BDW still had his thumbprint on the organization.

3. Lunhow drafts were paying off.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 19:37 pm**

Goldfan wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 09:26 am
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Apr 2025 23:32 pm
Jatalk wrote: ↑27 Apr 2025 19:11 pm
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑27 Apr 2025 19:04 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑27 Apr 2025 18:53 pm I thought the whole point of the season was TO LET THE YUTES PLAY HERE……this is so confusing…..
I think Nado still being here somewhat interferes with that strategy, for now. They thought they would have another roster spot available for a Yute. Hence, the MEM infielder shuttle.
Correct it’s the Arenado problem. The infield is a log jam.
None of them are better than Nado however.

This whole season's strategy is non-sensicle, thinking a 34 yo is too old to contribute and thinking a billionaire can't afford to compete.
So watching an old mediocre player put up middling numbers on a losing team takes precedent over playing the YUTES they promised
What does BDW, Fans, YUTES get out of playing mediocre vets on their way to a losing record??
Very simple solution. Sit them….eventually NA will broaden his team list and WC/Gray will waive their NTC. Too simple I suppose……

No amount of games played is going to make Gorman or Saggese a better 3b than Nado.

Posted: **28 Apr 2025 19:47 pm**

Baker should be the one gone, but he's out of options.

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Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up

Re: Saggese to Memphis, Jose Barrero called up