Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 07:21 am
Sucks for him, but probably the right move. Couldn't trade Arenado, so where's he going to get the ABs? He's not going to get starts over Walker or Gorman right now. And when Herrera comes back soon, there's going to be an even bigger log jam. Yea, Baker has sucked, but he's here for one reason, and that is to take ABs off the bench against lefties. That's not a good role for Saggese.
And as good as he played, I'm not 100% convinced that there's nothing else he needs to prove before he's given a spot. Witness over the years however many Cardinals prospects we've seen come up hot and then fizzle out the next few years. So, like it or not, he's first on the list to be sent down.
He should take what he learned up here back down to Memphis, tear it up down there, and they'll be a spot for him either at the end of the year or next year.
All that said, I'm curious to see how Barrero does. It's nice to have a RHB that can play CF as well as anywhere on the IF. Will he hit? I have my doubts, but I don't think he has any options, so it's either produce or he goes somewhere else (maybe). Aren't the Cuban players supposedly a little slower to develop at the MLB level for some reason? Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll find whatever he's been missing the last few years.
It was a bad move. He earned a spot on the Major League roster. There is nothing else to prove. It's not the way to reward a player who has shown he belongs.
It's not about rewarding a player. It's about development. He cannot develop with the occasional spot start here in St. Louis.
Look, he's 23. Let him hit everyday in Memphis. Let him refine his fielding. Don't call him up until he can be handed an everyday job whether that's at second, third, DH, or somewhere else.
Patience is a virtue....
This... plus someone will be hurt within a month and he will be the first IFer they call up. Gorman's back or something and then Saggese will get another shot.
And if he goes down and plays well...a job will open up by the trade deadline or he will be traded. It will work itself out if everyone is patient.
Meanwhile we’ll get the pleasure of watching Baker and Burleson take at bats.
Saggese had an .875 OPS in AAA this year and .876 OPS in the MLB. He was decent in spring, great in the AFL. Had a great finish in AAA last year and a struggle but learning process in the MLB last year just like Winn in 2023 before his breakout in 2024 and VS2 in 2024 before his much better play in 2025.
It's not ideal as I'm not a fan of the B&B Boys, but some things to consider.
1. At Memphis he'll play everyday.
2. He is not a finished product in the field. Still needs development.
3. After a sizzling start, he's hitting .250 with a .308 OBP in his last 7 games.
Love Saggese, but there's no need to rush him. Let him come up when he has a regular job with regular playing time. I'm thinking that will be around the trade deadline, if not sooner.
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 07:21 am
Sucks for him, but probably the right move. Couldn't trade Arenado, so where's he going to get the ABs? He's not going to get starts over Walker or Gorman right now. And when Herrera comes back soon, there's going to be an even bigger log jam. Yea, Baker has sucked, but he's here for one reason, and that is to take ABs off the bench against lefties. That's not a good role for Saggese.
And as good as he played, I'm not 100% convinced that there's nothing else he needs to prove before he's given a spot. Witness over the years however many Cardinals prospects we've seen come up hot and then fizzle out the next few years. So, like it or not, he's first on the list to be sent down.
He should take what he learned up here back down to Memphis, tear it up down there, and they'll be a spot for him either at the end of the year or next year.
All that said, I'm curious to see how Barrero does. It's nice to have a RHB that can play CF as well as anywhere on the IF. Will he hit? I have my doubts, but I don't think he has any options, so it's either produce or he goes somewhere else (maybe). Aren't the Cuban players supposedly a little slower to develop at the MLB level for some reason? Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll find whatever he's been missing the last few years.
It was a bad move. He earned a spot on the Major League roster. There is nothing else to prove. It's not the way to reward a player who has shown he belongs.
It's not about rewarding a player. It's about development. He cannot develop with the occasional spot start here in St. Louis.
Look, he's 23. Let him hit everyday in Memphis. Let him refine his fielding. Don't call him up until he can be handed an everyday job whether that's at second, third, DH, or somewhere else.
Patience is a virtue....
I thought this was the youth movement. He by far is the best fielding second baseman on the team as shown over the weekend. Not a good message to send to young players who have proven they can play in the Major Leagues. Just another example of poorly the front office runs things.
And the inability to move Nado threw a temporary wrench in this plan. Patience. It will sort itself out. And no...he's not the best fielding second baseman on this team.
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 07:21 am
Sucks for him, but probably the right move. Couldn't trade Arenado, so where's he going to get the ABs? He's not going to get starts over Walker or Gorman right now. And when Herrera comes back soon, there's going to be an even bigger log jam. Yea, Baker has sucked, but he's here for one reason, and that is to take ABs off the bench against lefties. That's not a good role for Saggese.
And as good as he played, I'm not 100% convinced that there's nothing else he needs to prove before he's given a spot. Witness over the years however many Cardinals prospects we've seen come up hot and then fizzle out the next few years. So, like it or not, he's first on the list to be sent down.
He should take what he learned up here back down to Memphis, tear it up down there, and they'll be a spot for him either at the end of the year or next year.
All that said, I'm curious to see how Barrero does. It's nice to have a RHB that can play CF as well as anywhere on the IF. Will he hit? I have my doubts, but I don't think he has any options, so it's either produce or he goes somewhere else (maybe). Aren't the Cuban players supposedly a little slower to develop at the MLB level for some reason? Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll find whatever he's been missing the last few years.
It was a bad move. He earned a spot on the Major League roster. There is nothing else to prove. It's not the way to reward a player who has shown he belongs.
It's not about rewarding a player. It's about development. He cannot develop with the occasional spot start here in St. Louis.
Look, he's 23. Let him hit everyday in Memphis. Let him refine his fielding. Don't call him up until he can be handed an everyday job whether that's at second, third, DH, or somewhere else.
Patience is a virtue....
I thought this was the youth movement. He by far is the best fielding second baseman on the team as shown over the weekend. Not a good message to send to young players who have proven they can play in the Major Leagues. Just another example of poorly the front office runs things.
And the inability to move Nado threw a temporary wrench in this plan. Patience. It will sort itself out. And no...he's not the best fielding second baseman on this team.
Saggese deserves the same opportunity afforded to Walker, Gorman, Burleson.
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 13:19 pm
Looks like Loutos got the DFA.
Not that im high on loutos, im not. But why are we dfaing him when hes pitched okay at memphis and didnt get scorched when he was up here last year granted he is old for the minors at 26, but meanwhile riley o brien is 30- pitched horribky with us last year(or any time hes been in majors), and didnt pitch well in memphis- and again is 30 and definitely not a part of the future.
Seeks like riley o brien should be first guy dfad.
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 13:19 pm
Looks like Loutos got the DFA.
Not that im high on loutos, im not. But why are we dfaing him when hes pitched okay at memphis and didnt get scorched when he was up here last year granted he is old for the minors at 26, but meanwhile riley o brien is 30- pitched horribky with us last year(or any time hes been in majors), and didnt pitch well in memphis- and again is 30 and definitely not a part of the future.
Seeks like riley o brien should be first guy dfad.
Most likely they feel nobody will claim Loutos. O’Brien would get picked up by someone. 14 K’s in 7 IP in AAA this year.
I love Gorman's power potential so I don't mind him getting more opp but I think Burleson has proven he doesn't have the slug or speed to be anything more than a decent average slap hitter. Would much rather give those AB's to SaggyT--I did NOT create that nickname btw, apparently a Cardinal did.
Baker's f'n useless. He's 28 and only has 4 HR in 200 PAs and a career 80 OPS+. For a guy who has one supposed upside, that's not nearly enough power.
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 13:19 pm
Looks like Loutos got the DFA.
Not that im high on loutos, im not. But why are we dfaing him when hes pitched okay at memphis and didnt get scorched when he was up here last year granted he is old for the minors at 26, but meanwhile riley o brien is 30- pitched horribky with us last year(or any time hes been in majors), and didnt pitch well in memphis- and again is 30 and definitely not a part of the future.
Seeks like riley o brien should be first guy dfad.
Most likely they feel nobody will claim Loutos. O’Brien would get picked up by someone. 14 K’s in 7 IP in AAA this year.
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 07:21 am
Sucks for him, but probably the right move. Couldn't trade Arenado, so where's he going to get the ABs? He's not going to get starts over Walker or Gorman right now. And when Herrera comes back soon, there's going to be an even bigger log jam. Yea, Baker has sucked, but he's here for one reason, and that is to take ABs off the bench against lefties. That's not a good role for Saggese.
And as good as he played, I'm not 100% convinced that there's nothing else he needs to prove before he's given a spot. Witness over the years however many Cardinals prospects we've seen come up hot and then fizzle out the next few years. So, like it or not, he's first on the list to be sent down.
He should take what he learned up here back down to Memphis, tear it up down there, and they'll be a spot for him either at the end of the year or next year.
All that said, I'm curious to see how Barrero does. It's nice to have a RHB that can play CF as well as anywhere on the IF. Will he hit? I have my doubts, but I don't think he has any options, so it's either produce or he goes somewhere else (maybe). Aren't the Cuban players supposedly a little slower to develop at the MLB level for some reason? Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll find whatever he's been missing the last few years.
It was a bad move. He earned a spot on the Major League roster. There is nothing else to prove. It's not the way to reward a player who has shown he belongs.
It's not about rewarding a player. It's about development. He cannot develop with the occasional spot start here in St. Louis.
Look, he's 23. Let him hit everyday in Memphis. Let him refine his fielding. Don't call him up until he can be handed an everyday job whether that's at second, third, DH, or somewhere else.
Patience is a virtue....
This... plus someone will be hurt within a month and he will be the first IFer they call up. Gorman's back or something and then Saggese will get another shot.
And if he goes down and plays well...a job will open up by the trade deadline or he will be traded. It will work itself out if everyone is patient.
Meanwhile we’ll get the pleasure of watching Baker and Burleson take at bats.
Saggese had an .875 OPS in AAA this year and .876 OPS in the MLB. He was decent in spring, great in the AFL. Had a great finish in AAA last year and a struggle but learning process in the MLB last year just like Winn in 2023 before his breakout in 2024 and VS2 in 2024 before his much better play in 2025.
It's not ideal as I'm not a fan of the B&B Boys, but some things to consider.
1. At Memphis he'll play everyday.
2. He is not a finished product in the field. Still needs development.
3. After a sizzling start, he's hitting .250 with a .308 OBP in his last 7 games.
Love Saggese, but there's no need to rush him. Let him come up when he has a regular job with regular playing time. I'm thinking that will be around the trade deadline, if not sooner.
It's just a little difficult to find consistency with some moves.
Baker making the roster. Saggese producing sent down. Walker not and looks a little lost,
they're both the same age so youths play?
Barrero was a strong possibility out of ST so no real issue with him. Also a SS/OFer over 3
1B every day. Burleson not producing since last July still here. Are they providing runways, trying to win, or what?
Herrera will be back. Pozo or Baker should go then. IF Baker stays then I'll be surprised again, but if Baker stays
Pozo down, replace Burly with Kop. Choose a lane.
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 13:19 pm
Looks like Loutos got the DFA.
Not that im high on loutos, im not. But why are we dfaing him when hes pitched okay at memphis and didnt get scorched when he was up here last year granted he is old for the minors at 26, but meanwhile riley o brien is 30- pitched horribky with us last year(or any time hes been in majors), and didnt pitch well in memphis- and again is 30 and definitely not a part of the future.
Seeks like riley o brien should be first guy dfad.
I mean...especially this year with the bullpen turmoil...I'd have DFA'd Fermin or Helman before I DFA'd a potentially useful relief pitcher.
This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.
Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:21 pm
This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.
Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
The odd thing is that I believe the Cardinals have a good idea what they have in Saggese. They aren't sure about Walker and Gorman. There are only so many ABs available. So they are giving Walker and Gorman the chance to be more definitive. It's not like the Cardinals seem to be serious contenders at this point. They might as well see what they have in Walker and Gorman.
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:21 pm
This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.
Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
The odd thing is that I believe the Cardinals have a good idea what they have in Saggese. They aren't sure about Walker and Gorman. So they are giving Walker and Gorman the chance to be more definitive. It's not like the Cardinals seem to be serious contenders at this point. They might as well see what they have in Walker and Gorman.
Yes, after 96 MLB PA’s they know exactly what they have in Saggese, but after 1,232 MLB PA’s and 744 MLB PA’s they don’t know what they have in Gorman and Walker.
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:21 pm
This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.
Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
The odd thing is that I believe the Cardinals have a good idea what they have in Saggese. They aren't sure about Walker and Gorman. So they are giving Walker and Gorman the chance to be more definitive. It's not like the Cardinals seem to be serious contenders at this point. They might as well see what they have in Walker and Gorman.
Yes, after 96 MLB PA’s they know exactly what they have in Saggese, but after 1,232 MLB PA’s and 744 MLB PA’s they don’t know what they have in Gorman and Walker.
Not "exactly". But an astute baseball evaluator would have a pretty good idea.
Last edited by Shady on 28 Apr 2025 16:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
smilinjoefission wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 16:21 pm
This is NOT a winning baseball decision...nothing against Barrero other than he is a living, breathing, walking, talking K machine that makes Rob Deer look like Joe DiMaggio by comparison as far as having a batters eye, but Saggs was doing fine at the plate when most Cardinals aren't...he wasn't a liability.
Again, there are reasons the Cards are below .500, these types of moves are one of them.
The odd thing is that I believe the Cardinals have a good idea what they have in Saggese. They aren't sure about Walker and Gorman. So they are giving Walker and Gorman the chance to be more definitive. It's not like the Cardinals seem to be serious contenders at this point. They might as well see what they have in Walker and Gorman.
Yes, after 96 MLB PA’s they know exactly what they have in Saggese, but after 1,232 MLB PA’s and 744 MLB PA’s they don’t know what they have in Gorman and Walker.
An astute baseball evaluator would have a pretty good idea.
But they wouldn’t after 700+ MLB PA’s? Especially when they drafted and developed both Walker/Gorman while trading for Saggese after he had had success into AA?
