STLtoday.com

Jeff Goldblum wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:05 pm Sometimes the rot is so bad in a foundation that the only solution is to tear it down and start all over.

NotAFathersDay9871 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 13:18 pm I love how difficult the concept of a rebuild is to understand. Can't wait for the "Can't Believe They Didn't Acquire Anybody at the Deadline" threads on August 1st when the Cardinals are in fourth place.

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

Jeff Goldblum wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:05 pm Sometimes the rot is so bad in a foundation that the only solution is to tear it down and start all over.

So you're a home inspector? You think we need to sell the house and move to a Pirates model because the dishwasher is broken, have a few light bulbs that need changing, a deep clean and maybe a paint job? The St. Louis model house is way better than the Pirates model house.

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 22:15 pm

NotAFathersDay9871 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 13:18 pm I love how difficult the concept of a rebuild is to understand. Can't wait for the "Can't Believe They Didn't Acquire Anybody at the Deadline" threads on August 1st when the Cardinals are in fourth place.

I guess you should include yourself in not understanding what a rebuild is!
In a rebuild, a team trades away their older, more expensive players and replaces them with talented young players who have high upsides, with years of control. So far, Bloom has traded away older expensive players, and received young, cost controlled players, with years of control. In many posters opinions on here, he forgot one thing! That is having high upsides! Maybe one or two has, but most are middling players at best, if they stay healthy, which several of them haven’t been so far.
I already know what some of the replies are going to be too, “ what did you expect to get for Gray, and Contreras “
I don’t have anything against the guys we got for Gray, if they stay healthy, that is an issue, however. But for Contreras, I would have rather seen Bloom, go more for one quality player, instead of quantity. Again many will say, you get three guys and hope one turns out to be good. I’d rather go with a player who is more certain. That’s also why I don’t like the May signing, too much risk! Dewitt isn’t going to spend much money, but Bloom spends a big chunk of what is available to him on a guy that is a huge health risk! Just not smart in my opinion.
If several of these guys pan out, I’ll own up to be wrong, unlike many of the pro Bloom crowd will do if they don’t!

Banner29 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 22:18 pm

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

Jeff Goldblum wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:05 pm Sometimes the rot is so bad in a foundation that the only solution is to tear it down and start all over.

So you're a home inspector? You think we need to sell the house and move to a Pirates model because the dishwasher is broken, have a few light bulbs that need changing, a deep clean and maybe a paint job? The St. Louis model house is way better than the Pirates model house.

No. It’s not

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 17:55 pm

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 17:16 pm

Imperial Capitalist wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:26 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:01 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 13:29 pm 2023
71 - 91

2024
83 - 79

2025
78 - 84

What's the definition of insanity? (doing the same thing over & over again and expecting a different result)

And No........BDWJr wasn't going to throw $200-250M in payroll to fix the above problem.

2022?

As you're well aware...

1. League MVP
2. 2nd-runner up, league MVP
3. All-time great/HOF who led league in HR after ASB.
4. Two pitching acquisitions with 9-5 record & sub-3.00 era.
5. Final good seasons from Mikolas & Wainwright & their ~ 400 innings.

The loss of all of that helped bring about 23-25.

People like that are living in a dream world and not reality. 2022 was a magic year that ended with a thud. Let's face it, Pujols brought a vibe, an energy, an excitement, a focus to that time that would have otherwise not happened. People like that are arrogant and they are jack*sses to other posters and pretend they have they answers.

Pro trip: Their are just like everyone else here, rendering their opinion, they are just rude and arrogant about it.

To anyone with a half a brain, you don't just go from a 2022 to a 2023 crash and float around .500 in the two seasons that follow because you are on the precipice of contending.

It has been clear the Cardinals do not have enough elite talent to be a serious contender EVEN if they somehow scrape together enough to limp into the playoffs. Yes, it's a team game and yes have the unheralded shine, BUT you have to have enough elite talent, especially who work well under pressure to advance far. You face some of the more elite pitchers and hitters in the playoffs, you need to have talented enough players to do well against them and/or match inning for inning against or run production against.

Where do people like him think we are going to get the elite talent? Other teams were going to gift them to us in a trade? BDW would go out of character and go on a wild spending spree. It literally has been 3 seasons since our last decent season and as you correctly pointed out, our level of elite talent has deterioriated since then. They saw the Mo, halfway approach and what an utter failure it was.

Folks like that need to Sit TFD and watch instead of lecturing everyone about how the new regime is doing it all wrong.

What we had at the point of the thud, and still have, is the Wrong manager.

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 23:07 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 17:55 pm

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 17:16 pm

Imperial Capitalist wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:26 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:01 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 13:29 pm 2023
71 - 91

2024
83 - 79

2025
78 - 84

What's the definition of insanity? (doing the same thing over & over again and expecting a different result)

And No........BDWJr wasn't going to throw $200-250M in payroll to fix the above problem.

2022?

As you're well aware...

1. League MVP
2. 2nd-runner up, league MVP
3. All-time great/HOF who led league in HR after ASB.
4. Two pitching acquisitions with 9-5 record & sub-3.00 era.
5. Final good seasons from Mikolas & Wainwright & their ~ 400 innings.

The loss of all of that helped bring about 23-25.

People like that are living in a dream world and not reality. 2022 was a magic year that ended with a thud. Let's face it, Pujols brought a vibe, an energy, an excitement, a focus to that time that would have otherwise not happened. People like that are arrogant and they are jack*sses to other posters and pretend they have they answers.

Pro trip: Their are just like everyone else here, rendering their opinion, they are just rude and arrogant about it.

To anyone with a half a brain, you don't just go from a 2022 to a 2023 crash and float around .500 in the two seasons that follow because you are on the precipice of contending.

It has been clear the Cardinals do not have enough elite talent to be a serious contender EVEN if they somehow scrape together enough to limp into the playoffs. Yes, it's a team game and yes have the unheralded shine, BUT you have to have enough elite talent, especially who work well under pressure to advance far. You face some of the more elite pitchers and hitters in the playoffs, you need to have talented enough players to do well against them and/or match inning for inning against or run production against.

Where do people like him think we are going to get the elite talent? Other teams were going to gift them to us in a trade? BDW would go out of character and go on a wild spending spree. It literally has been 3 seasons since our last decent season and as you correctly pointed out, our level of elite talent has deterioriated since then. They saw the Mo, halfway approach and what an utter failure it was.

Folks like that need to Sit TFD and watch instead of lecturing everyone about how the new regime is doing it all wrong.

What we had at the point of the thud, and still have, is the Wrong manager.

That could be true.

I assume Bloom kept him for one or both of these two reasons:
- He has improved enough to justify giving him another look.
- The Cardinals in the immediate future will not be competitive. This might lead him to getting a manager that he'd want anyway.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 15:45 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 15:32 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 13:25 pm Does the OP have reasonable solutions he wants to offer?
Complaining is easy. Providing answers is not.

Personally I don’t want to see another year like the last few years, and keeping the same players would have led to that. They are long past the ability to fix the plane while it’s in flight.
The only way to significantly improve the team is to take risks with younger players, and to draft/trade in order to develop a young core that Tier One free agents would want to join. No top FA wants to join the hot mess of the past few seasons — and it makes no sense to sign such a free agent until there is solid young core.

I do. Do exactly what they are doing without gutting payroll $100m. Add 2-3 young superstars to draw fans back to the stadium. Why does trading old guys for prospects have to mean cutting payroll? 2 separate issues.

Just how do you propose to add 2-3 young superstars.

Teams almost never trade their young superstars. And by the time superstars reach FA, they typically aren't "young" anymore.

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 23:41 pm

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 23:07 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 17:55 pm

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 17:16 pm

Imperial Capitalist wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:26 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:01 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 13:29 pm 2023
71 - 91

2024
83 - 79

2025
78 - 84

What's the definition of insanity? (doing the same thing over & over again and expecting a different result)

And No........BDWJr wasn't going to throw $200-250M in payroll to fix the above problem.

2022?

As you're well aware...

1. League MVP
2. 2nd-runner up, league MVP
3. All-time great/HOF who led league in HR after ASB.
4. Two pitching acquisitions with 9-5 record & sub-3.00 era.
5. Final good seasons from Mikolas & Wainwright & their ~ 400 innings.

The loss of all of that helped bring about 23-25.

People like that are living in a dream world and not reality. 2022 was a magic year that ended with a thud. Let's face it, Pujols brought a vibe, an energy, an excitement, a focus to that time that would have otherwise not happened. People like that are arrogant and they are jack*sses to other posters and pretend they have they answers.

Pro trip: Their are just like everyone else here, rendering their opinion, they are just rude and arrogant about it.

To anyone with a half a brain, you don't just go from a 2022 to a 2023 crash and float around .500 in the two seasons that follow because you are on the precipice of contending.

It has been clear the Cardinals do not have enough elite talent to be a serious contender EVEN if they somehow scrape together enough to limp into the playoffs. Yes, it's a team game and yes have the unheralded shine, BUT you have to have enough elite talent, especially who work well under pressure to advance far. You face some of the more elite pitchers and hitters in the playoffs, you need to have talented enough players to do well against them and/or match inning for inning against or run production against.

Where do people like him think we are going to get the elite talent? Other teams were going to gift them to us in a trade? BDW would go out of character and go on a wild spending spree. It literally has been 3 seasons since our last decent season and as you correctly pointed out, our level of elite talent has deterioriated since then. They saw the Mo, halfway approach and what an utter failure it was.

Folks like that need to Sit TFD and watch instead of lecturing everyone about how the new regime is doing it all wrong.

What we had at the point of the thud, and still have, is the Wrong manager.

That could be true.

I assume Bloom kept him for one or both of these two reasons:
- He has improved enough to justify giving him another look.
- The Cardinals in the immediate future will not be competitive. This might lead him to getting a manager that he'd want anyway.

Shildt might be available to come back. He is well schooled in the Cardinal way, i think his great love is teaching it and working with young players to make them their best, he seems to be good at it. He was a great Cardinal for a long time and seems to be willing to speak his mind, fight for his beliefs and is extremely experienced in baseball. Let's reach out and see if he wants a job.

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 23:50 pm

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 23:41 pm

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 23:07 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 17:55 pm

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 17:16 pm

Imperial Capitalist wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:26 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:01 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 13:29 pm 2023
71 - 91

2024
83 - 79

2025
78 - 84

What's the definition of insanity? (doing the same thing over & over again and expecting a different result)

And No........BDWJr wasn't going to throw $200-250M in payroll to fix the above problem.

2022?

As you're well aware...

1. League MVP
2. 2nd-runner up, league MVP
3. All-time great/HOF who led league in HR after ASB.
4. Two pitching acquisitions with 9-5 record & sub-3.00 era.
5. Final good seasons from Mikolas & Wainwright & their ~ 400 innings.

The loss of all of that helped bring about 23-25.

People like that are living in a dream world and not reality. 2022 was a magic year that ended with a thud. Let's face it, Pujols brought a vibe, an energy, an excitement, a focus to that time that would have otherwise not happened. People like that are arrogant and they are jack*sses to other posters and pretend they have they answers.

Pro trip: Their are just like everyone else here, rendering their opinion, they are just rude and arrogant about it.

To anyone with a half a brain, you don't just go from a 2022 to a 2023 crash and float around .500 in the two seasons that follow because you are on the precipice of contending.

It has been clear the Cardinals do not have enough elite talent to be a serious contender EVEN if they somehow scrape together enough to limp into the playoffs. Yes, it's a team game and yes have the unheralded shine, BUT you have to have enough elite talent, especially who work well under pressure to advance far. You face some of the more elite pitchers and hitters in the playoffs, you need to have talented enough players to do well against them and/or match inning for inning against or run production against.

Where do people like him think we are going to get the elite talent? Other teams were going to gift them to us in a trade? BDW would go out of character and go on a wild spending spree. It literally has been 3 seasons since our last decent season and as you correctly pointed out, our level of elite talent has deterioriated since then. They saw the Mo, halfway approach and what an utter failure it was.

Folks like that need to Sit TFD and watch instead of lecturing everyone about how the new regime is doing it all wrong.

What we had at the point of the thud, and still have, is the Wrong manager.

That could be true.

I assume Bloom kept him for one or both of these two reasons:
- He has improved enough to justify giving him another look.
- The Cardinals in the immediate future will not be competitive. This might lead him to getting a manager that he'd want anyway.

Shildt might be available to come back. He is well schooled in the Cardinal way, i think his great love is teaching it and working with young players to make them their best, he seems to be good at it. He was a great Cardinal for a long time and seems to be willing to speak his mind, fight for his beliefs and is extremely experienced in baseball. Let's reach out and see if he wants a job.

Lol. He's a good manager, but apparently is hard on people, leading to burnout of working with him.

Adam2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 13:58 pm Ike's back on the sauce. careful everyone

zbasspro wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 00:01 am

Adam2 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 13:58 pm Ike's back on the sauce. careful everyone

Reminds me of Ole drunken LongBallLarry. He was the bestest fan ever, defended Matheny non-stop - until one night he left the stadium in a drunken stupor, while it was pouring down rain. He spent two days calling Matheny every name in the book! He didn't go as far as apologizing, but said he was wrong for acting that way, and would be taking a break. To his credit, he has not been seen again. I hope he got the help he needed.

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

Jeff Goldblum wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:05 pm Sometimes the rot is so bad in a foundation that the only solution is to tear it down and start all over.

So you're a home inspector? You think we need to sell the house and move to a Pirates model because the dishwasher is broken, have a few light bulbs that need changing, a deep clean and maybe a paint job? The St. Louis model house is way better than the Pirates model house.

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 23:00 pm

Banner29 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 22:18 pm

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

Jeff Goldblum wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:05 pm Sometimes the rot is so bad in a foundation that the only solution is to tear it down and start all over.

So you're a home inspector? You think we need to sell the house and move to a Pirates model because the dishwasher is broken, have a few light bulbs that need changing, a deep clean and maybe a paint job? The St. Louis model house is way better than the Pirates model house.

No. It’s not

Oh? You want me to show you the winning percentage, playoff appreances, WS championships, pennants, players, attendence numbers etc that prove you wrong? Not really my thing but I will!

Jeff Goldblum wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 06:36 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

Jeff Goldblum wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:05 pm Sometimes the rot is so bad in a foundation that the only solution is to tear it down and start all over.

So you're a home inspector? You think we need to sell the house and move to a Pirates model because the dishwasher is broken, have a few light bulbs that need changing, a deep clean and maybe a paint job? The St. Louis model house is way better than the Pirates model house.

I think they need to bulldoze the house and rebuild from the ground up because Mozeliak completely (bleep) up the franchise.

Banner29 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:15 am

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 23:00 pm

Banner29 wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 22:18 pm

Ike Hammett wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

Jeff Goldblum wrote: ↑22 Dec 2025 14:05 pm Sometimes the rot is so bad in a foundation that the only solution is to tear it down and start all over.

So you're a home inspector? You think we need to sell the house and move to a Pirates model because the dishwasher is broken, have a few light bulbs that need changing, a deep clean and maybe a paint job? The St. Louis model house is way better than the Pirates model house.

No. It’s not

Oh? You want me to show you the winning percentage, playoff appreances, WS championships, pennants, players, attendence numbers etc that prove you wrong? Not really my thing but I will!

The past doesn’t matter. The Pirates are in a FAR better position than the Cardinals are right now