STLtoday.com

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 14:49 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:41 pm

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:55 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:12 am

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 09:16 am

Bushiro wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 21:44 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 18:05 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:42 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:18 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:11 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.

I don't think anybody we have on the trade block can bring that return

You are probably right. That's why DeWitt needs to shell out some cash for a quality FA starting pitcher to help make this team more competitive next season. And get more fans back in the stadium.

They just traded away a legit “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (plus $20mm) for prospects. What does that tell you?

For the umpteenth time: They. Aren’t. Focused. On. Being. Competitive. Next. Season.

"They just traded away a legit “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (plus $20mm) for prospects. What does that tell you?" That they are dumping salary, Stooge.

No kidding...so why will he shell out cash when he is dumping it...unbelievable

Dumping salary to spend the money elsewhere. While adding some younger players.

So you’re saying they’re “dumping salary” by trading away a “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (and kicking in $20mm) for prospects so that they can turn around and “spend the money” in free agency to acquire . . . a “quality #2 type starting pitcher” to compete in 2026? Brilliant.

It's actually not as crazy or contradictive as many are making it out to be. There is a world where they could sign or trade for a #1/#2 if that pitcher is under contract for 4+ years. Through the rebuild and into our competitive window. Sonny Gray was not that, as his contract was all but up after this year.

He's not talking about a "rebuild" or "competitive windows," he's talking about 2026--he said they need to add a "#2 type FA starting pitcher" specifically for the purpose of being competitive "next season", because of "hint hint, attendance."

And if you trade for a (presumably young) "#1/#2 pitcher" that is "under contract for 4+ years," you will have to raid the same farm system that you're trying to build up for the next "competitive window." Or take on the longer-term FA market contract of a 30+ year old veteran "#1/#2," which would be a terrible fit for any team in the early stages of a credible rebuild.

I understand your point. I was more thinking, it wouldn't have been that outlandish (though very improbable) to sign someone like Cease to a long-term contract even amidst the rebuild. You get a young ace to anchor the rotation, try and help keep the team at least competitive, and bring the youngen's along.

hornetfb52 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 14:57 pm The constant b****ing back and forth between certain posters makes this f***ing website borderline unbearable. And don’t pull the “it’s a message board, people are allowed to have differing opinions”. Thats not what this is. People on here just go at each other just because. This place used to be full of good info and good sports talk, but has really gone down the crapper.

Go ahead, start b****ing at me now, flame away.

And this is not just this thread. It’s been this way for a long [ash] time.

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.

hornetfb52 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 14:57 pm The constant b****ing back and forth between certain posters makes this f***ing website borderline unbearable. And don’t pull the “it’s a message board, people are allowed to have differing opinions”. Thats not what this is. People on here just go at each other just because. This place used to be full of good info and good sports talk, but has really gone down the crapper.

Go ahead, start b****ing at me now, flame away.

And this is not just this thread. It’s been this way for a long [ash] time.

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 15:01 pm

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 14:49 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:41 pm

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:55 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:12 am

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 09:16 am

Bushiro wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 21:44 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 18:05 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:42 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:18 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:11 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.

I don't think anybody we have on the trade block can bring that return

You are probably right. That's why DeWitt needs to shell out some cash for a quality FA starting pitcher to help make this team more competitive next season. And get more fans back in the stadium.

They just traded away a legit “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (plus $20mm) for prospects. What does that tell you?

For the umpteenth time: They. Aren’t. Focused. On. Being. Competitive. Next. Season.

"They just traded away a legit “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (plus $20mm) for prospects. What does that tell you?" That they are dumping salary, Stooge.

No kidding...so why will he shell out cash when he is dumping it...unbelievable

Dumping salary to spend the money elsewhere. While adding some younger players.

So you’re saying they’re “dumping salary” by trading away a “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (and kicking in $20mm) for prospects so that they can turn around and “spend the money” in free agency to acquire . . . a “quality #2 type starting pitcher” to compete in 2026? Brilliant.

It's actually not as crazy or contradictive as many are making it out to be. There is a world where they could sign or trade for a #1/#2 if that pitcher is under contract for 4+ years. Through the rebuild and into our competitive window. Sonny Gray was not that, as his contract was all but up after this year.

He's not talking about a "rebuild" or "competitive windows," he's talking about 2026--he said they need to add a "#2 type FA starting pitcher" specifically for the purpose of being competitive "next season", because of "hint hint, attendance."

And if you trade for a (presumably young) "#1/#2 pitcher" that is "under contract for 4+ years," you will have to raid the same farm system that you're trying to build up for the next "competitive window." Or take on the longer-term FA market contract of a 30+ year old veteran "#1/#2," which would be a terrible fit for any team in the early stages of a credible rebuild.

I understand your point. I was more thinking, it wouldn't have been that outlandish (though very improbable) to sign someone like Cease to a long-term contract even amidst the rebuild. You get a young ace to anchor the rotation, try and help keep the team at least competitive, and bring the youngen's along.

Understood, you made a more coherent argument than the OP. I just don’t think they want to pay prevailing market prices for a couple of premium seasons from a current #1/#2-type in 2026-2027 when this process is likely to take more than a year or two. By the time they’re “in the window,” that current #1/#2 will likely be on the less attractive back-end of his contract (and career).

Bloom needs to find a bargain #2 type FA starting pitcher

This is a timely OP topic. But the goon squad, as usual, turn the thread into a personal vendetta.

kyace wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:26 pm Cease is a questionable #2 and he got $210 million. Best bet would be trade for someone like Rivers from Dodgers or Gill or Hampton from the Yankees who demonstrated the tools to be a #2 before injuries.

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.

kyace wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:26 pm Cease is a questionable #2 and he got $210 million. Best bet would be trade for someone like Rivers from Dodgers or Gill or Hampton from the Yankees who demonstrated the tools to be a #2 before injuries.

Absolut wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 06:20 am Bargain #2 starters. And the tooth fairy.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 09:19 am

Absolut wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 06:20 am Bargain #2 starters. And the tooth fairy.

The best way to accomplish that is the amateur draft and international signings. Then develop and don't trade them away like we did with Alcantara and Gallen.

I put that on DeWitt. I don't think Mozeliak did that without pressure to win now or else.

RamFan08NY wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 16:47 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.

You pretty much get what you pay for with pitchers. Your reference to a #2 is kind of a gray area. A #2 on the Cardinals for a "bargain price", would probably be a 4-5 on most other teams. Just by labeling a guy a 2, doesn't make him good.


Just look around the league at what quality pitchers are being paid and how they are coveted. Teams aren't giving them away and quality free agent pitchers aren't giving the bargain discounts, especially to a bad baseball team.

You want a pitcher at a cheap price to label #2? Meet Miles Mikolas. Thats what you get.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 09:27 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 09:19 am

Absolut wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 06:20 am Bargain #2 starters. And the tooth fairy.

The best way to accomplish that is the amateur draft and international signings. Then develop and don't trade them away like we did with Alcantara and Gallen.

I put that on DeWitt. I don't think Mozeliak did that without pressure to win now or else.

That last paragraph is made up bull[shirt].

My guess is the Ozuna trade was MO’s attempt to make up for the Grichuk and Piscotty disappointments. That’s my guess.

But let’s assume your made up narrative is correct. A POBO who knows the players in his organization would tell Dewitt Sandy and Zac are off limits.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 09:52 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 09:27 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 09:19 am

Absolut wrote: ↑29 Nov 2025 06:20 am Bargain #2 starters. And the tooth fairy.

The best way to accomplish that is the amateur draft and international signings. Then develop and don't trade them away like we did with Alcantara and Gallen.

I put that on DeWitt. I don't think Mozeliak did that without pressure to win now or else.

That last paragraph is made up bull[shirt].

My guess is the Ozuna trade was MO’s attempt to make up for the Grichuk and Piscotty disappointments. That’s my guess.

But let’s assume your made up narrative is correct. A POBO who knows the players in his organization would tell Dewitt Sandy and Zac are off limits.

DeWitt's comments about the firing of Matheny revealed the truth. Winning isn't enough. Mozeliak didn't want to suffer the same fate so he traded the future for 2 seasons of playoffs.

It's not made up. DeWitt said it out loud with the cameras rolling.