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Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑07 May 2025 09:51 am Never thought it was a bad trade from the beginning. We essentially traded away a RH Lars Nootbaar(Randy A stays healthier than Lars and Lars plays better defense) for a 21 year old, 1st round draft pick, LH starting pitcher. Libby was a lottery ticket worth trading for. Arozarena had a blistering COVID shortened 2020. In 2021 he won ROY w/ a 4.2 WAR, and 129 OPS +. That same year the Cards OF posted WARS of 6.4, 4.1, 3.2 and OPS+ of 148, 114, 115. The 6.4/148 coming from O'Neill who would have been the LF option vs Arozarena because Arozarena should not be a CF ever. Somethings are not predictable as Carlson disappeared as a rising star after '21. O'Neill had a down year and Bader regressed offensively all in one year. But then Lars came along in LF and him and Arozarena are essentially a loss.

Bottom line, LH stud starting pitchers are very hard to find and players develop at different paces. I am not sold yet that Libby is a top of the rotation guy. But I become more convinced after every start.

Trades cannot be evaluated in the short term.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 09:05 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 05:24 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:48 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:07 pm Been preaching for years that Libby had this type of talent and that they needed to give him the consistency that a starter needs to unlock it.

Loving that he's showing out this year... one of the bright spots.

And to whomever said it... yeah, I think Bloom was the catalyst, likely told Mozo to stop being a bozo and put him in the rotation.

And yet, cards signed 3 starters last year and not a word from you that Libby was blocked….

It’s weird the things you forget.

Nope. You didn't say a word.

I remember. I wrote an OP about how it was weird/curious that the big Libby fans weren't up in arms with the Gray/Gibson/Lynn signings.

Now more than a year later, Libby has a really good April and you're all like, "Hey guys, remember when I was talking about Libby in 2022!!??"

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:12 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 09:05 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 05:24 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:48 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:07 pm Been preaching for years that Libby had this type of talent and that they needed to give him the consistency that a starter needs to unlock it.

Loving that he's showing out this year... one of the bright spots.

And to whomever said it... yeah, I think Bloom was the catalyst, likely told Mozo to stop being a bozo and put him in the rotation.

And yet, cards signed 3 starters last year and not a word from you that Libby was blocked….

It’s weird the things you forget.

Nope. You didn't say a word.

I remember. I wrote an OP about how it was weird/curious that the big Libby fans weren't up in arms with the Gray/Gibson/Lynn signings.

Now more than a year later, Libby has a really good April and you're all like, "Hey guys, remember when I was talking about Libby in 2022!!??"

I don’t know why you decide to be a liar and an idiot, but you do you.

I’ve probably been the LOUDEST poster on this forum about Liberatore and you among others have given me endless [shirt] about it. Now you’re gonna pretend I haven’t said anything?

FOH

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:33 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:12 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 09:05 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 05:24 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:48 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:07 pm Been preaching for years that Libby had this type of talent and that they needed to give him the consistency that a starter needs to unlock it.

Loving that he's showing out this year... one of the bright spots.

And to whomever said it... yeah, I think Bloom was the catalyst, likely told Mozo to stop being a bozo and put him in the rotation.

And yet, cards signed 3 starters last year and not a word from you that Libby was blocked….

It’s weird the things you forget.

Nope. You didn't say a word.

I remember. I wrote an OP about how it was weird/curious that the big Libby fans weren't up in arms with the Gray/Gibson/Lynn signings.

Now more than a year later, Libby has a really good April and you're all like, "Hey guys, remember when I was talking about Libby in 2022!!??"

I don’t know why you decide to be a liar and an idiot, but you do you.

I’ve probably been the LOUDEST poster on this forum about Liberatore and you among others have given me endless [shirt] about it. Now you’re gonna pretend I haven’t said anything?

FOH

You didn’t say anything when the Cards signed 3 pitchers last offseason, which essentially removed guys like Thompson and Libby from starter consideration.

Tons of chatter, especially about Gibson and Lynn, but none from you. I even wrote an OP asking “shouldn’t the Libby wonks be mad?” No chatter from you.

I’m guessing Old Friend had one leg off the Libby bandwagon by then. Now Libby is doing well and Ol’ Friend is chirpy as ever. Lol.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:33 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:12 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 09:05 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 05:24 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:48 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:07 pm Been preaching for years that Libby had this type of talent and that they needed to give him the consistency that a starter needs to unlock it.

Loving that he's showing out this year... one of the bright spots.

And to whomever said it... yeah, I think Bloom was the catalyst, likely told Mozo to stop being a bozo and put him in the rotation.

And yet, cards signed 3 starters last year and not a word from you that Libby was blocked….

It’s weird the things you forget.

Nope. You didn't say a word.

I remember. I wrote an OP about how it was weird/curious that the big Libby fans weren't up in arms with the Gray/Gibson/Lynn signings.

Now more than a year later, Libby has a really good April and you're all like, "Hey guys, remember when I was talking about Libby in 2022!!??"

I don’t know why you decide to be a liar and an idiot, but you do you.

I’ve probably been the LOUDEST poster on this forum about Liberatore and you among others have given me endless [shirt] about it. Now you’re gonna pretend I haven’t said anything?

FOH

You didn’t say anything when the Cards signed 3 pitchers last offseason, which essentially removed guys like Thompson and Libby from starter consideration.

Tons of chatter, especially about Gibson and Lynn, but none from you. I even wrote an OP asking “shouldn’t the Libby wonks be mad?” No chatter from you.

I’m guessing Old Friend had one leg off the Libby bandwagon by then. Now Libby is doing well and Ol’ Friend is chirpy as ever. Lol.

Banner29 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:39 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:33 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:12 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 09:05 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 05:24 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:48 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:07 pm Been preaching for years that Libby had this type of talent and that they needed to give him the consistency that a starter needs to unlock it.

Loving that he's showing out this year... one of the bright spots.

And to whomever said it... yeah, I think Bloom was the catalyst, likely told Mozo to stop being a bozo and put him in the rotation.

And yet, cards signed 3 starters last year and not a word from you that Libby was blocked….

It’s weird the things you forget.

Nope. You didn't say a word.

I remember. I wrote an OP about how it was weird/curious that the big Libby fans weren't up in arms with the Gray/Gibson/Lynn signings.

Now more than a year later, Libby has a really good April and you're all like, "Hey guys, remember when I was talking about Libby in 2022!!??"

I don’t know why you decide to be a liar and an idiot, but you do you.

I’ve probably been the LOUDEST poster on this forum about Liberatore and you among others have given me endless [shirt] about it. Now you’re gonna pretend I haven’t said anything?

FOH

You didn’t say anything when the Cards signed 3 pitchers last offseason, which essentially removed guys like Thompson and Libby from starter consideration.

Tons of chatter, especially about Gibson and Lynn, but none from you. I even wrote an OP asking “shouldn’t the Libby wonks be mad?” No chatter from you.

I’m guessing Old Friend had one leg off the Libby bandwagon by then. Now Libby is doing well and Ol’ Friend is chirpy as ever. Lol.

No offense, but can you definitively say he never mentioned a word about it? And if you can why are you so hyper focused on his posts out of everyone else on here?

You may very well be right, but this accusation just reeks of this disturbingly exhausting trend these days where people in society state something as if it’s a fact, provide no factual evidence to support it, and just hope that nobody calls them out on it. I’m not allowed to discuss politics. But it’s extremely common in people that if they played baseball they would be “left handed”

Banner29 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:39 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:33 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:12 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 09:05 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 05:24 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:48 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:07 pm Been preaching for years that Libby had this type of talent and that they needed to give him the consistency that a starter needs to unlock it.

Loving that he's showing out this year... one of the bright spots.

And to whomever said it... yeah, I think Bloom was the catalyst, likely told Mozo to stop being a bozo and put him in the rotation.

And yet, cards signed 3 starters last year and not a word from you that Libby was blocked….

It’s weird the things you forget.

Nope. You didn't say a word.

I remember. I wrote an OP about how it was weird/curious that the big Libby fans weren't up in arms with the Gray/Gibson/Lynn signings.

Now more than a year later, Libby has a really good April and you're all like, "Hey guys, remember when I was talking about Libby in 2022!!??"

I don’t know why you decide to be a liar and an idiot, but you do you.

I’ve probably been the LOUDEST poster on this forum about Liberatore and you among others have given me endless [shirt] about it. Now you’re gonna pretend I haven’t said anything?

FOH

You didn’t say anything when the Cards signed 3 pitchers last offseason, which essentially removed guys like Thompson and Libby from starter consideration.

Tons of chatter, especially about Gibson and Lynn, but none from you. I even wrote an OP asking “shouldn’t the Libby wonks be mad?” No chatter from you.

I’m guessing Old Friend had one leg off the Libby bandwagon by then. Now Libby is doing well and Ol’ Friend is chirpy as ever. Lol.

No offense, but can you definitively say he never mentioned a word about it? And if you can why are you so hyper focused on his posts out of everyone else on here?

You may very well be right, but this accusation just reeks of this disturbingly exhausting trend these days where people in society state something as if it’s a fact, provide no factual evidence to support it, and just hope that nobody calls them out on it. I’m not allowed to discuss politics. But it’s extremely common in people that if they played baseball they would be “left handed”

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:46 am

Banner29 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:39 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:33 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:12 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 09:05 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑07 May 2025 05:24 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:48 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑06 May 2025 23:07 pm Been preaching for years that Libby had this type of talent and that they needed to give him the consistency that a starter needs to unlock it.

Loving that he's showing out this year... one of the bright spots.

And to whomever said it... yeah, I think Bloom was the catalyst, likely told Mozo to stop being a bozo and put him in the rotation.

And yet, cards signed 3 starters last year and not a word from you that Libby was blocked….

It’s weird the things you forget.

Nope. You didn't say a word.

I remember. I wrote an OP about how it was weird/curious that the big Libby fans weren't up in arms with the Gray/Gibson/Lynn signings.

Now more than a year later, Libby has a really good April and you're all like, "Hey guys, remember when I was talking about Libby in 2022!!??"

I don’t know why you decide to be a liar and an idiot, but you do you.

I’ve probably been the LOUDEST poster on this forum about Liberatore and you among others have given me endless [shirt] about it. Now you’re gonna pretend I haven’t said anything?

FOH

You didn’t say anything when the Cards signed 3 pitchers last offseason, which essentially removed guys like Thompson and Libby from starter consideration.

Tons of chatter, especially about Gibson and Lynn, but none from you. I even wrote an OP asking “shouldn’t the Libby wonks be mad?” No chatter from you.

I’m guessing Old Friend had one leg off the Libby bandwagon by then. Now Libby is doing well and Ol’ Friend is chirpy as ever. Lol.

No offense, but can you definitively say he never mentioned a word about it? And if you can why are you so hyper focused on his posts out of everyone else on here?

You may very well be right, but this accusation just reeks of this disturbingly exhausting trend these days where people in society state something as if it’s a fact, provide no factual evidence to support it, and just hope that nobody calls them out on it. I’m not allowed to discuss politics. But it’s extremely common in people that if they played baseball they would be “left handed”

He’s not right. He’s blatantly lying. He’s given me so much [shirt] for being bullish on Liberatore for years, now. I stopped leaning into his juvenile games as often, so now he’s making up a new story.

It’s stupid.

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:51 am ecleme ecleme ecleme..... why or how do you always seem to be the one that gets caught up in the childish he said/she said back and forth banter? You are obsessed with proving that you are right all of the time to complete strangers. Really a weird trait. These people don't know you and could give two Fs whether you are right or wrong, whether you agree with them or not, etc. Grow up or seek help bro.

JDW wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:57 am Countless times Old Friend has posted how the Cards have messed up not giving Libs a consistent chance to develop as a SP. Basically almost every time such a thread came up that I saw, OF was there to voice his opinion that Libs should be given a runway to develop as a SP, not exact words, but a similar and consistent opinion over the last few years.
I hated to see Arozarena traded away, and that Shildt wouldn't give him any runway over a fading Fowler. Too bad another player couldn't have been subbed into the trade instead of Aroz, who provided a lot of value for the Rays while he was cost controlled.
Anyway, to the OP's question, yes, if Libs can keep this up, reassessment of this trade will and already is taking place.
The final assessment ........................ IDK, ................................. when all the players involved careers are over I guess, lol.
Currently fluid.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 12:03 pm

JDW wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:57 am Countless times Old Friend has posted how the Cards have messed up not giving Libs a consistent chance to develop as a SP. Basically almost every time such a thread came up that I saw, OF was there to voice his opinion that Libs should be given a runway to develop as a SP, not exact words, but a similar and consistent opinion over the last few years.
I hated to see Arozarena traded away, and that Shildt wouldn't give him any runway over a fading Fowler. Too bad another player couldn't have been subbed into the trade instead of Aroz, who provided a lot of value for the Rays while he was cost controlled.
Anyway, to the OP's question, yes, if Libs can keep this up, reassessment of this trade will and already is taking place.
The final assessment ........................ IDK, ................................. when all the players involved careers are over I guess, lol.
Currently fluid.

No doubt Old Friend has championed ML in the past and was vocal about the 2023 usage.

But weirdly enough, after the Cards signed three pitchers within a week, Old Friend remained silent about the obvious slight to ML’s rotation chances. I found it odd.

JDW wrote: ↑07 May 2025 12:05 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 May 2025 12:03 pm

JDW wrote: ↑07 May 2025 11:57 am Countless times Old Friend has posted how the Cards have messed up not giving Libs a consistent chance to develop as a SP. Basically almost every time such a thread came up that I saw, OF was there to voice his opinion that Libs should be given a runway to develop as a SP, not exact words, but a similar and consistent opinion over the last few years.
I hated to see Arozarena traded away, and that Shildt wouldn't give him any runway over a fading Fowler. Too bad another player couldn't have been subbed into the trade instead of Aroz, who provided a lot of value for the Rays while he was cost controlled.
Anyway, to the OP's question, yes, if Libs can keep this up, reassessment of this trade will and already is taking place.
The final assessment ........................ IDK, ................................. when all the players involved careers are over I guess, lol.
Currently fluid.

No doubt Old Friend has championed ML in the past and was vocal about the 2023 usage.

But weirdly enough, after the Cards signed three pitchers within a week, Old Friend remained silent about the obvious slight to ML’s rotation chances. I found it odd.

You want odd, reassess by looking in the mirror.