STLtoday.com

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have in higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney.

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have in higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney.

yesterday you claimed the Cards had two #3's.

And why is it "pure baloney"?....what set precedent do you have to back up your Bobo Claims?

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have in higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney.

yesterday you claimed the Cards had two #3's.

And why is it "pure baloney"?....what set precedent do you have to back up your Bobo Claims?

Read my post more closely. Guru, your obsession has you rushing to be contrite. Slow down a little.

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:04 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have in higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney.

yesterday you claimed the Cards had two #3's.

And why is it "pure baloney"?....what set precedent do you have to back up your Bobo Claims?

Read my post more closely. Guru, your obsession has you rushing to be contrite. Slow down a little.

I tried reading more closely...it was severely incoherent.

"Obsession" is making call out posts about people when they don't respond to you.

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:08 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:04 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have in higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney.

yesterday you claimed the Cards had two #3's.

And why is it "pure baloney"?....what set precedent do you have to back up your Bobo Claims?

Read my post more closely. Guru, your obsession has you rushing to be contrite. Slow down a little.

I tried reading more closely...it was severely incoherent.

"Obsession" is making call out posts about people when they don't respond to you.

You are obsessed with me. No matter how you try to spin it. You can't discuss baseball with me without being condescending and spewing put downs. Don't lecture me.

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:08 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:04 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have in higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney.

yesterday you claimed the Cards had two #3's.

And why is it "pure baloney"?....what set precedent do you have to back up your Bobo Claims?

Read my post more closely. Guru, your obsession has you rushing to be contrite. Slow down a little.

I tried reading more closely...it was severely incoherent.

"Obsession" is making call out posts about people when they don't respond to you.

You are obsessed with me. No matter how you try to spin it. You can't discuss baseball with me without being condescending and spewing put downs. Don't lecture me. Didn't you advise your cult to ignore me? Why can't you do the same?

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:10 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:08 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:04 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have in higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney.

yesterday you claimed the Cards had two #3's.

And why is it "pure baloney"?....what set precedent do you have to back up your Bobo Claims?

Read my post more closely. Guru, your obsession has you rushing to be contrite. Slow down a little.

I tried reading more closely...it was severely incoherent.

"Obsession" is making call out posts about people when they don't respond to you.

You are obsessed with me. No matter how you try to spin it. You can't discuss baseball with me without being condescending and spewing put downs. Don't lecture me.

but yesterday you did claim the Cards had two #3's...that's not condescending.

Back up your claims. Stop making stuff up.

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:14 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:10 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:08 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:04 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:03 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:01 pm

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have in higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney.

yesterday you claimed the Cards had two #3's.

And why is it "pure baloney"?....what set precedent do you have to back up your Bobo Claims?

Read my post more closely. Guru, your obsession has you rushing to be contrite. Slow down a little.

I tried reading more closely...it was severely incoherent.

"Obsession" is making call out posts about people when they don't respond to you.

You are obsessed with me. No matter how you try to spin it. You can't discuss baseball with me without being condescending and spewing put downs. Don't lecture me.

but yesterday you did claim the Cards had two #3's...that's not condescending.

Back up your claims. Stop making stuff up.

Your the one that has made stuff up. Can't you report on the Blues or something? Instead of being obsessed with harassing me?

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple that are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney. I contend the priority is the future. But going down the tubes next season is not something DeWitt, Bloom, Marmol and many fans wil tolerate. Nor should they.

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple that are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney. I contend the priority is the future. But going down the tubes next season is not something DeWitt, Bloom, Marmol and many fans wil tolerate. Nor should they.

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:58 pm Some feel the Cardinals currently don't have higher than #5 type starting pitchers. I feel there are a couple that are at least #4 types. Maybe #3. But none higher. If that's the case, unless a young pitcher comes out of nowhere. DeWitt's stadium attendance will continue to dwindle. Some here don't feel there is any way to trade for a #2 type starting pitcher. And evidently, they feel DeWitt won't spend for a #2 type FA starting pitcher. Some posters go on to say the Cardinals don't care about contending next season. That's pure baloney. I contend the priority is the future. But going down the tubes next season is not something DeWitt, Bloom, Marmol and many fans wil tolerate. Nor should they.

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:55 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:12 am

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 09:16 am

Bushiro wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 21:44 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 18:05 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:42 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:18 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:11 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.

I don't think anybody we have on the trade block can bring that return

You are probably right. That's why DeWitt needs to shell out some cash for a quality FA starting pitcher to help make this team more competitive next season. And get more fans back in the stadium.

They just traded away a legit “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (plus $20mm) for prospects. What does that tell you?

For the umpteenth time: They. Aren’t. Focused. On. Being. Competitive. Next. Season.

"They just traded away a legit “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (plus $20mm) for prospects. What does that tell you?" That they are dumping salary, Stooge.

No kidding...so why will he shell out cash when he is dumping it...unbelievable

Dumping salary to spend the money elsewhere. While adding some younger players.

So you’re saying they’re “dumping salary” by trading away a “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (and kicking in $20mm) for prospects so that they can turn around and “spend the money” in free agency to acquire . . . a “quality #2 type starting pitcher” to compete in 2026? Brilliant.

It's actually not as crazy or contradictive as many are making it out to be. There is a world where they could sign or trade for a #1/#2 if that pitcher is under contract for 4+ years. Through the rebuild and into our competitive window. Sonny Gray was not that, as his contract was all but up after this year.

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:26 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 11:16 am

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:52 am

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:18 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:11 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.

I don't think anybody we have on the trade block can bring that return

You are probably right. That's why DeWitt needs to shell out some cash for a quality FA starting pitcher to help make this team more competitive next season. And get more fans back in the stadium.

Who did you have in mind and at what cost? cease is gone. Framber Valdez has some serious concerns about his personality/trustworthiness.

He has a thread around here somewhere with trading Jordan Walker for Bubba Chandler. "A savvy GM could do it". We can all see it : the Pirates will jump at the chance to disrupt their solid rotation for a flaked out prospect. Gotta get that #2, that's what a Savvy GM would do.

I still can't figure out why the forum guru is so concerned about what a lowlife poster like me posts. Guru is obsessed, indeed.

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 13:41 pm

TraveledLessRoad wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 12:55 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 10:12 am

Shady wrote: ↑28 Nov 2025 09:16 am

Bushiro wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 21:44 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 18:05 pm

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:42 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:18 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:11 pm

Shady wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:36 pm And DeWitt really needs to OK the money to sign that pitcher. Or maybe Bloom can get one in a trade. Probably, trading Donovan is the only possibility that route. Maybe a Contreras trade could. With Liberatore, McGreevy and Fitts, the Cardinals now have three pretty good #3 type starting pitchers.But that's not going to move the needle much from last season. If this scenario plays out, the Cardinals might surprise some people next season.

I don't think anybody we have on the trade block can bring that return

You are probably right. That's why DeWitt needs to shell out some cash for a quality FA starting pitcher to help make this team more competitive next season. And get more fans back in the stadium.

They just traded away a legit “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (plus $20mm) for prospects. What does that tell you?

For the umpteenth time: They. Aren’t. Focused. On. Being. Competitive. Next. Season.

"They just traded away a legit “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (plus $20mm) for prospects. What does that tell you?" That they are dumping salary, Stooge.

No kidding...so why will he shell out cash when he is dumping it...unbelievable

Dumping salary to spend the money elsewhere. While adding some younger players.

So you’re saying they’re “dumping salary” by trading away a “quality #2 type starting pitcher” (and kicking in $20mm) for prospects so that they can turn around and “spend the money” in free agency to acquire . . . a “quality #2 type starting pitcher” to compete in 2026? Brilliant.

It's actually not as crazy or contradictive as many are making it out to be. There is a world where they could sign or trade for a #1/#2 if that pitcher is under contract for 4+ years. Through the rebuild and into our competitive window. Sonny Gray was not that, as his contract was all but up after this year.

He's not talking about a "rebuild" or "competitive windows," he's talking about 2026--he said they need to add a "#2 type FA starting pitcher" specifically for the purpose of being competitive "next season", because of "hint hint, attendance."

And if you trade for a (presumably young) "#1/#2 pitcher" that is "under contract for 4+ years," you will have to raid the same farm system that you're trying to build up for the next "competitive window." Or take on the longer-term FA market contract of a 30+ year old veteran "#1/#2," which would be a terrible fit for any team in the early stages of a credible rebuild.