Where are the Cardinals fans?

[Youboughtit]

Boring team...no stars....out of touch owner...and an arrogant P[ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton] Mo-ran...and apparently when it's hot, old people can't go because they will combust.

Why take a shot at old people. I was with you until then. The team, the owner, the POBO all have a lot to do with no one showing up to the games but what did old people have to do with any of this.

It’s less a shot at old people and more a shot at Cranny, who used “old people can’t handle the heat” as an excuse for poor attendance. Kind of an inside joke.

Sorry I guess I haven’t followed the give and take very well. It at least explains it to me. I was wondering what the heck old people had to do with this mess.

Well when the fan base is old and no young people are watching the fanbase eventually dies. I am 52 and my father is 75. We were season ticket holders for 35 years until Covid. I have 3 kids who grew up through 2006 and 2011 going to meaningful baseball. 5 fans that now watch or listen to 0 Cardinals games. My kids view the Cardinals as I used to the Pirates. A small market with an owner that doesn’t spend. The Cardinals need to develop a new young fan base.

This

BDW is in great jeopardy of losing The STL fan base for exactly this reason. Younger generations don’t have the passion for the game or Cardinals that gen X and older do. Cardinals fandom will be lost forever if this isn’t fixed immediately. Not 3,4,5 yrs “to figure out what they have”

Young fans want to see Superstars and WS contenders. They seen no value in spending limited entertainment $ on an average to below average team. They would rather spend more to go see the Savannah Bannanas than the Cardinals.

[desertrat23]

Boring team...no stars....out of touch owner...and an arrogant P[ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton] Mo-ran...and apparently when it's hot, old people can't go because they will combust.

Why take a shot at old people. I was with you until then. The team, the owner, the POBO all have a lot to do with no one showing up to the games but what did old people have to do with any of this.

It’s less a shot at old people and more a shot at Cranny, who used “old people can’t handle the heat” as an excuse for poor attendance. Kind of an inside joke.

Sorry I guess I haven’t followed the give and take very well. It at least explains it to me. I was wondering what the heck old people had to do with this mess.

Well when the fan base is old and no young people are watching the fanbase eventually dies. I am 52 and my father is 75. We were season ticket holders for 35 years until Covid. I have 3 kids who grew up through 2006 and 2011 going to meaningful baseball. 5 fans that now watch or listen to 0 Cardinals games. My kids view the Cardinals as I used to the Pirates. A small market with an owner that doesn’t spend. The Cardinals need to develop a new young fan base.

This

BDW is in great jeopardy of losing The STL fan base for exactly this reason. Younger generations don’t have the passion for the game or Cardinals that gen X and older do. Cardinals fandom will be lost forever if this isn’t fixed immediately. Not 3,4,5 yrs “to figure out what they have”

Young fans want to see Superstars and WS contenders. They seen no value in spending limited entertainment $ on an average to below average team. They would rather spend more to go see the Savannah Bannanas than the Cardinals.

Yep. And they absolutely are not going to be Cardinals fans because of players and victories that happened decades before they were born. They want their own tradition, and the guy who runs the baseball operation says he’s not going to call up the new rookie potential superstars for a few weeks “even though that would be fun and exciting.”

They either don’t get it, or they don’t care. Neither is good.

[Adam2]

How has Cranny not chimed in?

[WLTFE]

The Saggese thread seems to keep some posters very busy.

[blackinkbiz]

Cardinals' fans are not now, not ever, and never will be the BFIB. That's one of the dumbest monickers this city was ever labeled with.

There are no BFIB. Your ownership either spends with risk or scouts and develops ahead of the curve or preferably, does both. It's 2025. We have unlimited alternatives for entertainment at any given moment.

No one with a brain is going to spend ridiculous amounts of money on food and alcohol to sit in 100-degree heat and watch a mediocre team with a penchant for collapsing and playing down to their level of competition.

Pujols, Yadi, Wainwright, Carp, and Edmonds made this team more money than anyone realized during their tenure. Those days are gone until this franchise does what it takes to really compete again.

[Braund241]

As a cardinal fan its painful to say, but this is how we need the season to go from this point on.

Empty seats.
Boring, lackluster losses.
Subpar pitching.
Subpar hitting.
Subpar defense.
Subpar base running.
Subpar managing.

Im sure that Bloom doesn't want to be embarrassed, ruining any chance he has for better jobs in the future. I would hope ownership doesn't want to continue being embarrassed with 75% empty seats.

They either decide to turn it around, or decide to continue being the Rockies, Marlins, and Pirates.

Unfortunately, that decision has already been made. The cost to turn this incompetent franchise around and time needed will be exorbitant. Deep pockets and the want to win.

[Imperial Capitalist]

How has Cranny not chimed in?

Perhaps he's trying to square the math.

In 2015, the Cardinals drew just shy of 3,521,000 fans.

In 2025, we're on track to draw 2,341,000-ish (assuming this ave doesn't drop), a decline of 1,180,000 fans over the course of a decade.

And, somehow, in his worldview, this is our fault vs that of ownership and the front office.

[Braund241]

Cardinals' fans are not now, not ever, and never will be the BFIB. That's one of the dumbest monickers this city was ever labeled with.

There are no BFIB. Your ownership either spends with risk or scouts and develops ahead of the curve or preferably, does both. It's 2025. We have unlimited alternatives for entertainment at any given moment.

No one with a brain is going to spend ridiculous amounts of money on food and alcohol to sit in 100-degree heat and watch a mediocre team with a penchant for collapsing and playing down to their level of competition.

Pujols, Yadi, Wainwright, Carp, and Edmonds made this team more money than anyone realized during their tenure. Those days are gone until this franchise does what it takes to really compete again.

Amen. I live on the west coast, and we have always traveled somewhere to see them for a series. This will be the third year in a row we haven’t done so unless my wife and kids try to get me to Seattle in September, kicking and screaming, because they aren’t worth the effort, money or time. Wife keeps threatening to cancel the baseball package, which I would be fine with. I watch but this team is just not fun.

[desertrat23]

How has Cranny not chimed in?

In 2015, the Cardinals drew just shy of 3,521,000 fans.

In 2025, we're on track to draw 2,341,000-ish (assuming this ave doesn't drop), a decline of 1,180,000 fans over the course of a decade.

Biggest self-inflicted wound in STL sport history.

[riff raff]

Cardinals' fans are not now, not ever, and never will be the BFIB. That's one of the dumbest monickers this city was ever labeled with.

There are no BFIB. Your ownership either spends with risk or scouts and develops ahead of the curve or preferably, does both. It's 2025. We have unlimited alternatives for entertainment at any given moment.

No one with a brain is going to spend ridiculous amounts of money on food and alcohol to sit in 100-degree heat and watch a mediocre team with a penchant for collapsing and playing down to their level of competition.

Pujols, Yadi, Wainwright, Carp, and Edmonds made this team more money than anyone realized during their tenure. Those days are gone until this franchise does what it takes to really compete again.

Amen. I live on the west coast, and we have always traveled somewhere to see them for a series. This will be the third year in a row we haven’t done so unless my wife and kids try to get me to Seattle in September, kicking and screaming, because they aren’t worth the effort, money or time. Wife keeps threatening to cancel the baseball package, which I would be fine with. I watch but this team is just not fun.

They should go without you

[Dazepster]

Right here.

Though, even here our numbers have declined drastically.

One would need to be an Idiot to spend their hard earned money supporting The Current Cardinals Owner and his Minions.

I do not need to give a rundown of all the abuses that have been perpetrated on an adoring and supportive fanbase Post TLR. Not just supportive, amongst the Most Supportive. In all of sports.

Don't need a rundown, cause we have done that, day in, day out, ad nauseum, many are now dead after presenting their case(s) for years. E.g. What would Sweeps be ranting about. He would be Enraged at our Turn of Events.

Back on point. We are here. Simply waiting for an Ownership/Management Team that has a desire and actually makes an attempt To Compete For A Championship. With an understanding that no one expects them to run the team at a loss in that attempt.

An Ownership Change is a Necessity cause this Crew doesn't give a toss about Championships or a serious pursuit of one. Will simply continue to milk the cow till she runs completely dry. For Shame!!!

[Youboughtit]

Right here.

Though, even here our numbers have declined drastically.

One would need to be an Idiot to spend their hard earned money supporting The Current Cardinals Owner and his Minions.

I do not need to give a rundown of all the abuses that have been perpetrated on an adoring and supportive fanbase Post TLR. Not just supportive, amongst the Most Supportive. In all of sports.

Don't need a rundown, cause we have done that, day in, day out, ad nauseum, many are now dead after presenting their case(s) for years. E.g. What would Sweeps be ranting about. He would be Enraged at our Turn of Events.

Back on point. We are here. Simply waiting for an Ownership/Management Team that has a desire and actually makes an attempt To Compete For A Championship. With an understanding that no one expects them to run the team at a loss in that attempt.

An Ownership Change is a Necessity cause this Crew doesn't give a toss about Championships or a serious pursuit of one. Will simply continue to milk the cow till she runs completely dry. For Shame!!!

Disagree on one point. It will take years for fans to come back. They indeed will have to spend to their established payroll of top 11 (2006-2011) range to win and that indeed will be at a “loss” until fans return but it’s also how business is run. They pocketed 20 years of 3.5m fans and saw the value of the franchise skyrocket. In order to regain their place they will need to spend and take a loss to be able to generate more revenue. Like a normal business. Owner spends to create something to seek at a profit eventually. Fans have already paid for it in the past and will in the future but not until the owner spends first.

[Dazepster]

Right here.

Though, even here our numbers have declined drastically.

One would need to be an Idiot to spend their hard earned money supporting The Current Cardinals Owner and his Minions.

I do not need to give a rundown of all the abuses that have been perpetrated on an adoring and supportive fanbase Post TLR. Not just supportive, amongst the Most Supportive. In all of sports.

Don't need a rundown, cause we have done that, day in, day out, ad nauseum, many are now dead after presenting their case(s) for years. E.g. What would Sweeps be ranting about. He would be Enraged at our Turn of Events.

Back on point. We are here. Simply waiting for an Ownership/Management Team that has a desire and actually makes an attempt To Compete For A Championship. With an understanding that no one expects them to run the team at a loss in that attempt.

An Ownership Change is a Necessity cause this Crew doesn't give a toss about Championships or a serious pursuit of one. Will simply continue to milk the cow till she runs completely dry. For Shame!!!

Disagree on one point. It will take years for fans to come back. They indeed will have to spend to their established payroll of top 11 (2006-2011) range to win and that indeed will be at a “loss” until fans return but it’s also how business is run. They pocketed 20 years of 3.5m fans and saw the value of the franchise skyrocket. In order to regain their place they will need to spend and take a loss to be able to generate more revenue. Like a normal business. Owner spends to create something to seek at a profit eventually. Fans have already paid for it in the past and will in the future but not until the owner spends first.
[/quote


I remember A Time when Gussie wouldn't spend a Plum Nickel. I remember A Time when Gussie doled out the largest contacts in MLB History.

And then Gussie died..and his son didn't give a rats (donkey) about the team.

And then Bill Sr came in and picked up an undervalued asset with a lot of deferred maintenance. And he sold some parking lots he acquired in his Cards purchase and did indeed make some investments in The Team. In an attempt to compete.

But that Stopped with Jocketty and later TLR's ouster.

We are now in The Post Gussie phase with Bill having basically turned the Team over to The Much Lesser and Couldn't Give a toss Bill.

I subscribe to Cranny's desired Plan. Certainly need to develop your Core or a good percentage of it internally and spend to fill the gaps. But Jr ain't and hasn't been doing that and has no plan nor desire to do it.

So we Watch and Wait. From the confines of our living rooms, mobile and media devices etc etc.. Till the Cows come home if we must. But we ain't putting a nickel in the Current Bills pocket. Those Days are Over. DooDah

[cardstatman]

IMHO, ownership was spending as much as ever until the past season. Spending enough isn't the problem.

The problem was they started spending stupidly. Fans can see that. You can easily find over $300M the Cards spent for a large group of players that collectively were below average over the past less than 10 years.

The other problem is that poor fundamental baseball is difficult for the older generation to watch. It is tough to take pride in that. If they knew less about baseball, it would bother them less.

The poor spending and poor fundamentals gradually turned a team that averaged 91 wins per year into to a "lucky to win 81" team.

Attendance is also down because the team marketing is horrific, the print and online media coverage is boring and often negative (they don't make baseball sound dreamy anymore), and outside of the metro area, many people not far away can't listen to games on the radio or watch them on TV without chasing around the television providers who happen to carry the game today. If baseball is not on in the house, new fans are not formed. If the kids don't care about baseball, the family is not going to the game. People used to come long distances to St Louis to see a game and visit the Arch, etc. Not much anymore. It is sad that the momentum has been lost and it will be very difficult to get back. It may not happen for decades unless the Cardinals get serious. I"m hoping Bloom gets serious and brings back intelligent baseball and intelligent ownership. It won't be easy.

IMHO, the current team lacks superstarts but is above average in talent but they lack baseball intelligence (including the manager). They are successful now and then but they give away advantages left and right. Life is tough, it is tougher when you are ignorant about how it all works.

[Youboughtit]

Right here.

Though, even here our numbers have declined drastically.

One would need to be an Idiot to spend their hard earned money supporting The Current Cardinals Owner and his Minions.

I do not need to give a rundown of all the abuses that have been perpetrated on an adoring and supportive fanbase Post TLR. Not just supportive, amongst the Most Supportive. In all of sports.

Don't need a rundown, cause we have done that, day in, day out, ad nauseum, many are now dead after presenting their case(s) for years. E.g. What would Sweeps be ranting about. He would be Enraged at our Turn of Events.

Back on point. We are here. Simply waiting for an Ownership/Management Team that has a desire and actually makes an attempt To Compete For A Championship. With an understanding that no one expects them to run the team at a loss in that attempt.

An Ownership Change is a Necessity cause this Crew doesn't give a toss about Championships or a serious pursuit of one. Will simply continue to milk the cow till she runs completely dry. For Shame!!!

Disagree on one point. It will take years for fans to come back. They indeed will have to spend to their established payroll of top 11 (2006-2011) range to win and that indeed will be at a “loss” until fans return but it’s also how business is run. They pocketed 20 years of 3.5m fans and saw the value of the franchise skyrocket. In order to regain their place they will need to spend and take a loss to be able to generate more revenue. Like a normal business. Owner spends to create something to seek at a profit eventually. Fans have already paid for it in the past and will in the future but not until the owner spends first.
[/quote


I remember A Time when Gussie wouldn't spend a Plum Nickel. I remember A Time when Gussie doled out the largest contacts in MLB History.

And then Gussie died..and his son didn't give a rats (donkey) about the team.

And then Bill Sr came in and picked up an undervalued asset with a lot of deferred maintenance. And he sold some parking lots he acquired in his Cards purchase and did indeed make some investments in The Team. In an attempt to compete.

But that Stopped with Jocketty and later TLR's ouster.

We are now in The Post Gussie phase with Bill having basically turned the Team over to The Much Lesser and Couldn't Give a toss Bill.

I subscribe to Cranny's desired Plan. Certainly need to develop your Core or a good percentage of it internally and spend to fill the gaps. But Jr ain't and hasn't been doing that and has no plan nor desire to do it.

So we Watch and Wait. From the confines of our living rooms, mobile and media devices etc etc.. Till the Cows come home if we must. But we ain't putting a nickel in the Current Bills pocket. Those Days are Over. DooDah

Still look at the list of WS winners and in best case scenario your one and done. 30/32 of the most previous WS winners had a top 13 payroll (Marlins and Royals were the exceptions) and all but 4 top 11 payrolls ($215m currently and Cardinals are at $135m) so draft and develop is fine as long as they spend to that threshold to keep the stars they do develop or Aquire them via FA otherwise the owner is not trying to win a WS because spend to win is here to stay.

[Youboughtit]

IMHO, ownership was spending as much as ever until the past season. Spending enough isn't the problem.

The problem was they started spending stupidly. Fans can see that. You can easily find over $300M the Cards spent for a large group of players that collectively were below average over the past less than 10 years.

The other problem is that poor fundamental baseball is difficult for the older generation to watch. It is tough to take pride in that. If they knew less about baseball, it would bother them less.

The poor spending and poor fundamentals gradually turned a team that averaged 91 wins per year into to a "lucky to win 81" team.

Attendance is also down because the team marketing is horrific, the print and online media coverage is boring and often negative (they don't make baseball sound dreamy anymore), and outside of the metro area, many people not far away can't listen to games on the radio or watch them on TV without chasing around the television providers who happen to carry the game today. If baseball is not on in the house, new fans are not formed. If the kids don't care about baseball, the family is not going to the game. People used to come long distances to St Louis to see a game and visit the Arch, etc. Not much anymore. It is sad that the momentum has been lost and it will be very difficult to get back. It may not happen for decades unless the Cardinals get serious. I"m hoping Bloom gets serious and brings back intelligent baseball and intelligent ownership. It won't be easy.

IMHO, the current team lacks superstarts but is above average in talent but they lack baseball intelligence (including the manager). They are successful now and then but they give away advantages left and right. Life is tough, it is tougher when you are ignorant about how it all works.

This team if they move Arenado would have less than $70m on next years payroll and a plethora or tradable pieces and role players. What’s missing? 2 TOR SP and an elite superstar bat but they will have $100-$120m to reach the top 11 payrolls (like 2006-2011) so Tucker and 2 pitchers should be easily obtained. For you to be correct let’s see the owner spend. THEN the fans will Show up. That’s what we are all waiting for