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Melville wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 07:46 am

renostl wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 22:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 22:33 pm

renostl wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 22:23 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 22:06 pm

renostl wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 21:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 21:41 pm

45s wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 21:08 pm They may not have a choice….unless they are content with a dead spot on the roster….

Package him with Mootbaar.
Easiest way to get him out of town - and the team gets better at 2 roster spots.
That would reduce the amount of N/A dollars STL would have to eat.

Is there a contender that would want 2 under perfoming bats? I think that the only package that a contender would want is with Helsley.

Helsey is the best "rental" chip they have.
And he will be one of the most coveted rentals if Mo moves him.
Tying him to N/A would defeat the purpose.

All true but not my issue with your suggestion.
Which contender that NA would go to would want Nootbaar?

Several are looking for an outfield bat.

Are there even several that NA goes to.
I don’t think I need my full hand for that but
an answer will come soon enough.
I just see pitching used if grease is needed....
Jo Jo? Matz?

If STL does what is needed, N/A will go where he is told.
Simply instruct N/A that if he chooses to remain in STL, he will immediately be demoted to 3rd string behind Gorman and Saggese - and will compete with Fermin for a couple of PA's a week as the last man on the bench.
STL holds all the cards and all the leverage - and needs nothing more than a willingness to use it.
And yes, I agree that Matz or Maton could join N/A in a package in place of Mootbaar, depending on the preference of the trade partner.

Youboughtit wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 21:02 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 20:57 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 20:55 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 20:51 pm I have a hard time believing Arenado can last on this roster through 2027. It's very clear he's in decline. He has an OPS+ of 88 at 3rd base, and seems to be losing mobility. Did anyone see him running home last night from 2nd base. You can't have Gorman, Wetherholt, Arenado, Donovan, all on this roster.

The Cardinals surely are going to have an uphill battle trading him. Does anyone know how much money teams are expecting the Cardinals to cover? Is it possible teams are expecting us to cover the whole thing? He looks like a salary dump or a player you'd have to attach to a prospect to move.

What are the odds the Cardinals eventually have to just DFA him, anytime between now and when the contract is up?

BDW probably wouldn't want to swallow the sunken cost yet. If they have to DFA him it probably wouldn't happen until mid-2026 I bet, after more possible failed attempts to trade him.

Yes you can. Donovan plays LF. Gorman plays a horrible 3B. Move on from one or 2 of Gorman, Noot, Burleson. Walker.

They might well move on from some of those players, but the reason shouldn't have anything to do with Arenado's presence on the roster.

Right now I'd play both Gorman and Walker before Arenado, so at least you can look to the future. If Gorman is bad at 3B, play him at 2nd and Wetherholt at 3B.

Gorman is a DH. That’s the problem. This team really has 3 DH only guys in Burleson Hererra and Gorman. Not to mention the OF problem when Donovan moves to LF. I think 2 of Burleson Donovan Gorman Walker or Nootbar need to go because 4 of that group will be forced to the bench next season.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 11:55 am ZERO chance NADO is ever DFA'd

JDW wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 12:01 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 11:55 am ZERO chance NADO is ever DFA'd

I agree. You can't do that ever imo.

Melville wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 07:48 am

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 00:01 am Since Nado is a likely HOF and a future Cardinal HOF, they are not going to DFA him during this contract. Unless he wants to be traded, I don't think Bloom will be able to get rid of him either. The more likely scenario is that he has reduced playing time during both 2026 and 2027. Something like 120-125 games in 2026 and maybe 80-100 in 2027. They can allow him to retire gracefully that way.

I say likely HOF player as his numbers are likely to end up near those of Ron Santo who took forever to get in the HOF. Arenado will end up short of 400 HRs, a bit over 2000 hits and a career WAR around 60. Santo had a career WAR of 70, hit 342 HRs. If Arenado retires after the 2027 season, he would have played exactly the same number of seasons Santo did in MLB. Arenado was a better defender. Santo's OBP was higher and the OPS is nearly identical.

Santo does not belong in the HOF.
He was selected for reasons other than what he contributed on the field.
As for N/A, "allowing him to retire gracefully" should be of zero consideration to STL or any other team.
Only a fool would allocate playing time now, next year, the year after, or any other year on that basis.
STL attempted that idiocy with Wainwright - which led to a TOXIC disaster which is still negatively impacting the team.

Melville wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 07:48 am

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 00:01 am Since Nado is a likely HOF and a future Cardinal HOF, they are not going to DFA him during this contract. Unless he wants to be traded, I don't think Bloom will be able to get rid of him either. The more likely scenario is that he has reduced playing time during both 2026 and 2027. Something like 120-125 games in 2026 and maybe 80-100 in 2027. They can allow him to retire gracefully that way.

I say likely HOF player as his numbers are likely to end up near those of Ron Santo who took forever to get in the HOF. Arenado will end up short of 400 HRs, a bit over 2000 hits and a career WAR around 60. Santo had a career WAR of 70, hit 342 HRs. If Arenado retires after the 2027 season, he would have played exactly the same number of seasons Santo did in MLB. Arenado was a better defender. Santo's OBP was higher and the OPS is nearly identical.

Santo does not belong in the HOF.
He was selected for reasons other than what he contributed on the field.
As for N/A, "allowing him to retire gracefully" should be of zero consideration to STL or any other team.
Only a fool would allocate playing time now, next year, the year after, or any other year on that basis.
STL attempted that idiocy with Wainwright - which led to a TOXIC disaster which is still negatively impacting the team.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 12:20 pm

Melville wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 07:48 am

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 00:01 am Since Nado is a likely HOF and a future Cardinal HOF, they are not going to DFA him during this contract. Unless he wants to be traded, I don't think Bloom will be able to get rid of him either. The more likely scenario is that he has reduced playing time during both 2026 and 2027. Something like 120-125 games in 2026 and maybe 80-100 in 2027. They can allow him to retire gracefully that way.

I say likely HOF player as his numbers are likely to end up near those of Ron Santo who took forever to get in the HOF. Arenado will end up short of 400 HRs, a bit over 2000 hits and a career WAR around 60. Santo had a career WAR of 70, hit 342 HRs. If Arenado retires after the 2027 season, he would have played exactly the same number of seasons Santo did in MLB. Arenado was a better defender. Santo's OBP was higher and the OPS is nearly identical.

Santo does not belong in the HOF.
He was selected for reasons other than what he contributed on the field.
As for N/A, "allowing him to retire gracefully" should be of zero consideration to STL or any other team.
Only a fool would allocate playing time now, next year, the year after, or any other year on that basis.
STL attempted that idiocy with Wainwright - which led to a TOXIC disaster which is still negatively impacting the team.

I didn't say the Cards should allocate playing time to him. Based on past history, this is the most likely scenario. The history of playing contracts over doing the right thing for the team...

Whether Santo belongs in the HOF or not, he is in. I was merely pointing out that Arenado's numbers are most comparable to Santo who only got in via the veterans committee I believe.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 11:55 am ZERO chance NADO is ever DFA'd

Melville wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 13:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 11:55 am ZERO chance NADO is ever DFA'd

The Yankees recently DFA'd an infielder who was owed 7M for the balance of this year and 15M for each of the next two.
That is what winning team does: whatever is necessary.
The Cardinals do not.

ramfandan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 10:05 am

Melville wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 07:46 am

renostl wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 22:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 22:33 pm

renostl wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 22:23 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 22:06 pm

renostl wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 21:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 21:41 pm

45s wrote: ↑27 Jul 2025 21:08 pm They may not have a choice….unless they are content with a dead spot on the roster….

Package him with Mootbaar.
Easiest way to get him out of town - and the team gets better at 2 roster spots.
That would reduce the amount of N/A dollars STL would have to eat.

Is there a contender that would want 2 under perfoming bats? I think that the only package that a contender would want is with Helsley.

Helsey is the best "rental" chip they have.
And he will be one of the most coveted rentals if Mo moves him.
Tying him to N/A would defeat the purpose.

All true but not my issue with your suggestion.
Which contender that NA would go to would want Nootbaar?

Several are looking for an outfield bat.

Are there even several that NA goes to.
I don’t think I need my full hand for that but
an answer will come soon enough.
I just see pitching used if grease is needed....
Jo Jo? Matz?

If STL does what is needed, N/A will go where he is told.
Simply instruct N/A that if he chooses to remain in STL, he will immediately be demoted to 3rd string behind Gorman and Saggese - and will compete with Fermin for a couple of PA's a week as the last man on the bench.
STL holds all the cards and all the leverage - and needs nothing more than a willingness to use it.
And yes, I agree that Matz or Maton could join N/A in a package in place of Mootbaar, depending on the preference of the trade partner.

So according to your plan, if Arenado refuses to waive his NTC Mo will demote him as you outlined.
So now the POBO is determining who plays each day and NOT the manager. Wow! Oli might as well resign if Mo is going to tell him who and who not to play.
Oli or any succeeding manager would have zero respect from the other players . Clubhouse would be a disaster zone.