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hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 13:42 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:51 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:47 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:41 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:34 pm

Jatalk wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 09:05 am

Turn2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 08:50 am NO! Do not trade Donovan!

I’m with you. The return will not match his contribution

Exactly. He is an all star and a CARDINAL. Leave him the he.ll alone.

He was an all-star because we had to have one. He wasn’t voted in by fans. Every player is a Cardinal. Mikolas is a 2 time All-star and a Cardinal, I suppose we shouldn’t trade him either?

He wasn't voted one because Cardinal fans don't care enough to vote him in. He is gold glove caliber and a top notch hitter who should be pursued by teams wanting to add excellence. He should be the face of this organization.

Mikolas? Really. Fortunately, I take you as a more serious poster than this.

Donovan has a .788 OPS this season, a little above his career average. He’s never driven in or scored more than 73 runs in a season. He’s on pace for a little above that in runs this year and less in RBI. He is a solid player, but not someone an excellent team builds around. He’s a really nice complimentary player. If we could get a player with build around potential and more for him we should do it and not look back.

A 121 OPS+ is nothing to sneeze at. He is a baseball rat who does everything well and can play virtually any position but catcher and pitcher. If we had 8 position players like him we'd be a frontrunner. I didn't suggest that we should build around him but there is no reason to take him out of the everyday lineup.

Trading for a prospect with "potential" is how we get into trouble in the first place. Donovan is actual and consistent as hel.l.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 13:47 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 13:42 pmTrading for a prospect with "potential" is how we get into trouble in the first place. Donovan is actual and consistent as hel.l.

I don't think you trade him for a prospect with potential. I think you trade him for someone who is major league ready or currently in the majors. Which is why I'm glad to see the Cardinals have a "sky high" asking price. I'm in favor of trading him in the right deal, but I agree that he's a (drat) good player that we shouldn't just rush to give away just because.

icon wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 13:54 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 13:42 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:51 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:47 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:41 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:34 pm

Jatalk wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 09:05 am

Turn2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 08:50 am NO! Do not trade Donovan!

I’m with you. The return will not match his contribution

Exactly. He is an all star and a CARDINAL. Leave him the he.ll alone.

He was an all-star because we had to have one. He wasn’t voted in by fans. Every player is a Cardinal. Mikolas is a 2 time All-star and a Cardinal, I suppose we shouldn’t trade him either?

He wasn't voted one because Cardinal fans don't care enough to vote him in. He is gold glove caliber and a top notch hitter who should be pursued by teams wanting to add excellence. He should be the face of this organization.

Mikolas? Really. Fortunately, I take you as a more serious poster than this.

Donovan has a .788 OPS this season, a little above his career average. He’s never driven in or scored more than 73 runs in a season. He’s on pace for a little above that in runs this year and less in RBI. He is a solid player, but not someone an excellent team builds around. He’s a really nice complimentary player. If we could get a player with build around potential and more for him we should do it and not look back.

A 121 OPS+ is nothing to sneeze at. He is a baseball rat who does everything well and can play virtually any position but catcher and pitcher. If we had 8 position players like him we'd be a frontrunner. I didn't suggest that we should build around him but there is no reason to take him out of the everyday lineup.

Trading for a prospect with "potential" is how we get into trouble in the first place. Donovan is actual and consistent as hel.l.

Fair points, but you have to give to get to improve the team's chances at truly contending. And here's the biggest obstacle to wanting to keep him. There are 2 years of control left, so his trade value will dip as that control period dwindles. And it's not likely he will agree to any extension offered by the Cardinals whose owner clearly wants a reduced payroll. So he most likely will want to test free agency than agree to what he might consider a low-ball offer by the Cardinals. So keeping him until free agency doesn't seem like a good strategy unless his potential free agency value plummets because his production drops or he suffers a serious injury. And those outcomes wouldn't be good for the Cardinals, either.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:06 pm

icon wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 13:54 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 13:42 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:51 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:47 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:41 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:34 pm

Jatalk wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 09:05 am

Turn2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 08:50 am NO! Do not trade Donovan!

I’m with you. The return will not match his contribution

Exactly. He is an all star and a CARDINAL. Leave him the he.ll alone.

He was an all-star because we had to have one. He wasn’t voted in by fans. Every player is a Cardinal. Mikolas is a 2 time All-star and a Cardinal, I suppose we shouldn’t trade him either?

He wasn't voted one because Cardinal fans don't care enough to vote him in. He is gold glove caliber and a top notch hitter who should be pursued by teams wanting to add excellence. He should be the face of this organization.

Mikolas? Really. Fortunately, I take you as a more serious poster than this.

Donovan has a .788 OPS this season, a little above his career average. He’s never driven in or scored more than 73 runs in a season. He’s on pace for a little above that in runs this year and less in RBI. He is a solid player, but not someone an excellent team builds around. He’s a really nice complimentary player. If we could get a player with build around potential and more for him we should do it and not look back.

A 121 OPS+ is nothing to sneeze at. He is a baseball rat who does everything well and can play virtually any position but catcher and pitcher. If we had 8 position players like him we'd be a frontrunner. I didn't suggest that we should build around him but there is no reason to take him out of the everyday lineup.

Trading for a prospect with "potential" is how we get into trouble in the first place. Donovan is actual and consistent as hel.l.

Fair points, but you have to give to get to improve the team's chances at truly contending. And here's the biggest obstacle to wanting to keep him. There are 2 years of control left, so his trade value will dip as that control period dwindles. And it's not likely he will agree to any extension offered by the Cardinals whose owner clearly wants a reduced payroll. So he most likely will want to test free agency than agree to what he might consider a low-ball offer by the Cardinals. So keeping him until free agency doesn't seem like a good strategy unless his potential free agency value plummets because his production drops or he suffers a serious injury. And those outcomes wouldn't be good for the Cardinals, either.

I don't think any of that is a given. Donovan is just the kind of player we should consider giving an extension with a fair offer. He isn't a superstar and gets no superstar offer but with the right amount both he and team can be happy. Lots of teams manage the happy medium and we need to be one of them if we are to be taken seriously and compete well.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:01 pmHaving trouble understanding why a team is willing to trade an existing ML" player with build around potential and more (future's words)" for Donovan.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:09 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:01 pmHaving trouble understanding why a team is willing to trade an existing ML" player with build around potential and more (future's words)" for Donovan.

Teams get desperate. When they are in the race and they just need a piece or two that might put them over the top, they might do things that they might not normally do. Plus, Donovan is a complete player now. He's entering into his prime now. It might be worth it for that team to trade a young player with a ton of potential, but is going to take a few years before he reaches his prime. The team needs help now, they make a deal.

For the record, I think Donovan stays put.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:18 pm

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:09 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:01 pmHaving trouble understanding why a team is willing to trade an existing ML" player with build around potential and more (future's words)" for Donovan.

Teams get desperate. When they are in the race and they just need a piece or two that might put them over the top, they might do things that they might not normally do. Plus, Donovan is a complete player now. He's entering into his prime now. It might be worth it for that team to trade a young player with a ton of potential, but is going to take a few years before he reaches his prime. The team needs help now, they make a deal.

For the record, I think Donovan stays put.

I get it. I'm just not trusting our talent evaluators enough to find the player worthy of trading for a complete player like Donovan. He can be an icon as far as I'm concerned.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:31 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:18 pm

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:09 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:01 pmHaving trouble understanding why a team is willing to trade an existing ML" player with build around potential and more (future's words)" for Donovan.

Teams get desperate. When they are in the race and they just need a piece or two that might put them over the top, they might do things that they might not normally do. Plus, Donovan is a complete player now. He's entering into his prime now. It might be worth it for that team to trade a young player with a ton of potential, but is going to take a few years before he reaches his prime. The team needs help now, they make a deal.

For the record, I think Donovan stays put.

I get it. I'm just not trusting our talent evaluators enough to find the player worthy of trading for a complete player like Donovan. He can be an icon as far as I'm concerned.

lol

Again I like Donovan, he’s a solid player. But ICON? Please.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 14:06 pm

icon wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 13:54 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 13:42 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:51 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:47 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:41 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 12:34 pm

Jatalk wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 09:05 am

Turn2 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 08:50 am NO! Do not trade Donovan!

I’m with you. The return will not match his contribution

Exactly. He is an all star and a CARDINAL. Leave him the he.ll alone.

He was an all-star because we had to have one. He wasn’t voted in by fans. Every player is a Cardinal. Mikolas is a 2 time All-star and a Cardinal, I suppose we shouldn’t trade him either?

He wasn't voted one because Cardinal fans don't care enough to vote him in. He is gold glove caliber and a top notch hitter who should be pursued by teams wanting to add excellence. He should be the face of this organization.

Mikolas? Really. Fortunately, I take you as a more serious poster than this.

Donovan has a .788 OPS this season, a little above his career average. He’s never driven in or scored more than 73 runs in a season. He’s on pace for a little above that in runs this year and less in RBI. He is a solid player, but not someone an excellent team builds around. He’s a really nice complimentary player. If we could get a player with build around potential and more for him we should do it and not look back.

A 121 OPS+ is nothing to sneeze at. He is a baseball rat who does everything well and can play virtually any position but catcher and pitcher. If we had 8 position players like him we'd be a frontrunner. I didn't suggest that we should build around him but there is no reason to take him out of the everyday lineup.

Trading for a prospect with "potential" is how we get into trouble in the first place. Donovan is actual and consistent as hel.l.

Fair points, but you have to give to get to improve the team's chances at truly contending. And here's the biggest obstacle to wanting to keep him. There are 2 years of control left, so his trade value will dip as that control period dwindles. And it's not likely he will agree to any extension offered by the Cardinals whose owner clearly wants a reduced payroll. So he most likely will want to test free agency than agree to what he might consider a low-ball offer by the Cardinals. So keeping him until free agency doesn't seem like a good strategy unless his potential free agency value plummets because his production drops or he suffers a serious injury. And those outcomes wouldn't be good for the Cardinals, either.

I don't think any of that is a given. Donovan is just the kind of player we should consider giving an extension with a fair offer. He isn't a superstar and gets no superstar offer but with the right amount both he and team can be happy. Lots of teams manage the happy medium and we need to be one of them if we are to be taken seriously and compete well.

kyace wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 08:21 am Article says the asking price is sky high as it should be. Add Helsley and get Pages and a young pitcher from Dodgers or Dominguez and a young pitcher from Yankees

therzog29 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 15:00 pm The Dodgers have a few highly rated prospects in their system. 3 in the top 40 of baseball.
22nd - 20 year old OF De Paula
31st - 20 year old OF Hope
36th - 23 year old SS/3rd/2nd Freeland

They have 3 more in the top 100 including 21 year old pitcher Jackson Ferris.

If the Cardinals can pry a few of these guys away from the Dodgers for Donovan and maybe some combination of our relievers on expiring contracts (Helsley, Matz, Maton, etc) I think you need to jump at the chance. Next season this team isn’t going to be in any better position to compete with the starting rotation needing to be rebuilt. I believe 2027 or 2028 is the time the window would truly begin to open for this team to start making some noise and be able to make a playoff push. Also about the time those prospects should be a contributing piece of the mlb squad and the time when Donovan will become a free agent and leave or become expensive and probably hinder the chances of signing an impactful free agent.

I like Donovan as a player, but his current value could help reset this organization rather than standing pat, doing nothing/more of the same and spinning our wheels for another few seasons.

Shady wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 15:06 pm

therzog29 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 15:00 pm The Dodgers have a few highly rated prospects in their system. 3 in the top 40 of baseball.
22nd - 20 year old OF De Paula
31st - 20 year old OF Hope
36th - 23 year old SS/3rd/2nd Freeland

They have 3 more in the top 100 including 21 year old pitcher Jackson Ferris.

If the Cardinals can pry a few of these guys away from the Dodgers for Donovan and maybe some combination of our relievers on expiring contracts (Helsley, Matz, Maton, etc) I think you need to jump at the chance. Next season this team isn’t going to be in any better position to compete with the starting rotation needing to be rebuilt. I believe 2027 or 2028 is the time the window would truly begin to open for this team to start making some noise and be able to make a playoff push. Also about the time those prospects should be a contributing piece of the mlb squad and the time when Donovan will become a free agent and leave or become expensive and probably hinder the chances of signing an impactful free agent.

I like Donovan as a player, but his current value could help reset this organization rather than standing pat, doing nothing/more of the same and spinning our wheels for another few seasons.

I've been saying the Cardinals need to work on the Dodgers as a trade partner. As you point out, they have some pieces the Cardinals could really use for now and, especially, the future.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 15:08 pm

Shady wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 15:06 pm

therzog29 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2025 15:00 pm The Dodgers have a few highly rated prospects in their system. 3 in the top 40 of baseball.
22nd - 20 year old OF De Paula
31st - 20 year old OF Hope
36th - 23 year old SS/3rd/2nd Freeland

They have 3 more in the top 100 including 21 year old pitcher Jackson Ferris.

If the Cardinals can pry a few of these guys away from the Dodgers for Donovan and maybe some combination of our relievers on expiring contracts (Helsley, Matz, Maton, etc) I think you need to jump at the chance. Next season this team isn’t going to be in any better position to compete with the starting rotation needing to be rebuilt. I believe 2027 or 2028 is the time the window would truly begin to open for this team to start making some noise and be able to make a playoff push. Also about the time those prospects should be a contributing piece of the mlb squad and the time when Donovan will become a free agent and leave or become expensive and probably hinder the chances of signing an impactful free agent.

I like Donovan as a player, but his current value could help reset this organization rather than standing pat, doing nothing/more of the same and spinning our wheels for another few seasons.

I've been saying the Cardinals need to work on the Dodgers as a trade partner. As you point out, they have some pieces the Cardinals could really use for now and, especially, the future.

Well it comes down to if dodgers need anyone we have