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Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 21:46 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 21:01 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:59 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:52 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:36 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:20 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:10 pm

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:38 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:24 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:23 pm

greyhawk wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:21 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:14 pm

He’s LH and they have to get a RH power bat for RF. So what’s your plan for him to get ABs next year with Donovan in LF and Wetherholt at 2B. Is seems like 2-3 of Nootbar Donovan Burleson Walker and Gorman have to go

thats why you trade burleson now unless you believe he is part of the future --- other than Donovan he has the most value of any of those guys right now. you trade guys when other teams want them and will pay.

Small markets may be willing to take Gorman and Walker for a SP because of cost control

I could see a Jordan Walker for Taj Bradley kind of trade with TB. I’m not sure I’m ready to give up Walker yet, but that might be an interesting change of scenery deal for both sides.

I’d rather send them Gorman, or Nootbaar. To me, you don’t trade away your best hitters for anything that’s not equal or better than what you’re giving up. Herrera, Donovan, Winn, Burleson, and Walker need to stay. The Cardinals and more importantly, us fans, will regret it if any of these players are moved. Mo will not receive equal or better value for any of them.

No but there is not room for them when Wetherholt takes 2B


C Pages
1B Contreras
2B Wetherholt (2026 at the latest)
SS Winn
3B Areanado
LF Donovan
CF Scott
RF RH power bat ?
DH Hererra

Bench
Gorman
Walker
Burleson
Nootbar
Backup C

Maybe that makes it more clear. That’s how I see it. Use those Bench peices to get the RH power bat because Wetherholt is also LH and creates too many LH.

Too many LH Batters? The lineup you just listed already has 5 RH bats without putting in a RH power bat in RF. Do we need 6 RH bats in the every day lineup to be able to hit 25% of the pitchers out there?


How I would like to see the lineup at worst case

2026 lineup
1 3B/LF/2B Donovan
2 2B/3B Wetherholt
3 DH Herrera
4 LF/3B power bat (could be LH or RH, the best one that you can find)
5 1B Contreras
6 RF Burleson
7 SS Winn
8 C Pages/Crooks
9 CF Scott II

They need to get a RH hitter that can platoon with Burleson, but that doesn’t have to be a main player to target, that could be a Grichuk like guy. They also need to find one to platoon with Donovan (.601 OPS this year vs LHP and sucks in his past). The main bat to hit in the middle of the lineup should be the best one they get, no matter what they swing.

They have 3 holes that can’t hit LHP well

Career OPS
Donovan- .650
Burleson- .545
Scott - .517

It shouldn’t be hard to find 2 or 3 players to hit vs LHP for those guys. For Donovan it might be Saggese. For the others it might be someone outside the organization.

1 decent RH bat in Hererra does nothing. That’s the problem. The RH bats they do have are BAD. So what’s your plan for Gorman Nootbar and Walker. IMO they will not be relegated to bench pieces being so young. Nootbars metrics make him a nice player for a contender that has stars. I am saying move those 3 for that elite RH power bat that plays every day. This lineup needs a 35/100 guy somewhere. They have nice pieces other than the superstar

Who’s the elite bat that you’re trading for? Hint: I don’t see an elite bat being traded for those players.

And I guess Contreras isn’t good anymore? He’s RH. You’ve got a perfect spot between Herrera and Contreras for a LH bat. Or RH, but I know Oli likes to alternate. Put Wetherholt 2nd ahead of Herrera next year. Then Burly (or Noot) is good as a 6th hitter vs RHP and we keep the LH/RH going.

Cardinals have 1,157 PA vs LHP and 2,514 PA vs RHP. So you’re really worried about a number that is less than half of the other number.

Again, get a platoon to go with Burly and a platoon to go with Donovan. But the middle of the order bat should be whatever they can get and honestly I would prefer it to be a LH bat.

You trade anyone you can to get a superstar then figure it out. Someone that sells tickets and anchors the lineup. You must like a lineup of average players. Those guys are fine when there is a MOTO player to anchor. Without that player this will not be a legit contender. They can be found. Jus takes a ownership willing to pay

I don’t, I’m just realistic. The superstars I see out there that would anchor this lineup for years to come aren’t being traded. And the ones that enter FA like Kyle Tucker are going to cost $400-500 million or more and Dewitt isn’t going to pay that. So we will have to hope that Wetherholt becomes that superstar and Walker or Gorman figure something out. Or Bloom finds a diamond in the rough. Believe me I would love to see a superstar in the lineup. But it may be a little bit before we get that. I’m crossing my fingers that Wetherholt turns into something like it while knowing that Walker and Gorman both showed glimpses of that and neither has panned out so far.

Wetherholt never projected as a power hitter. They have to find one. Hererra is fine as a second best bat and they have an an abundance of good to very good role players. Alonso last year was who I wanted. His power translates to Busch. There are always guys to get. I just want aggressiveness one way or another. Buy or sell. Don’t do nothing.

bccardsfan wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 23:14 pm I am prepared to be disappointed at the deadline. We are talking about "the market just didn't develop" MO.......

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 22:11 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:19 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:14 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:11 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:08 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:18 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 18:52 pm They can at least attempt to move Helsley. They won't re-sign him and should get a decent return. And they should look to deal one of Nootbaar/Burleson/Gorman.

Mo saying he doesn't want to impact the future roster tells me Bloom is not getting equal say. He could easily ask Chaim which players can be dealt. Or it's just Mo using a new excuse to do nothing. He's had several over the last 17 years.

Moving any pending FA has zero effect on the future roster. Maton Helsley Fedde and Mikolas all need to go. I think Helsely accepts a QO for over $20m and the. We end up with the same team next season

I agree with you. Unless they want to re-sign Maton, I think all should be made available.

They can trade Maton and still resign him…

True

I think he’s a valuable chip…..the club should cash in that chip for the future….

Then take a run at him in the winter..

Would you deal Maton and Helsley if you were in charge?

45s wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:57 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 22:11 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:19 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:14 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:11 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:08 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:18 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 18:52 pm They can at least attempt to move Helsley. They won't re-sign him and should get a decent return. And they should look to deal one of Nootbaar/Burleson/Gorman.

Mo saying he doesn't want to impact the future roster tells me Bloom is not getting equal say. He could easily ask Chaim which players can be dealt. Or it's just Mo using a new excuse to do nothing. He's had several over the last 17 years.

Moving any pending FA has zero effect on the future roster. Maton Helsley Fedde and Mikolas all need to go. I think Helsely accepts a QO for over $20m and the. We end up with the same team next season

I agree with you. Unless they want to re-sign Maton, I think all should be made available.

They can trade Maton and still resign him…

True

I think he’s a valuable chip…..the club should cash in that chip for the future….

Then take a run at him in the winter..

Would you deal Maton and Helsley if you were in charge?

yes.......I see no reason not to

bccardsfan wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 09:14 am

45s wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:57 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 22:11 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:19 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:14 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:11 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:08 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:18 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 18:52 pm They can at least attempt to move Helsley. They won't re-sign him and should get a decent return. And they should look to deal one of Nootbaar/Burleson/Gorman.

Mo saying he doesn't want to impact the future roster tells me Bloom is not getting equal say. He could easily ask Chaim which players can be dealt. Or it's just Mo using a new excuse to do nothing. He's had several over the last 17 years.

Moving any pending FA has zero effect on the future roster. Maton Helsley Fedde and Mikolas all need to go. I think Helsely accepts a QO for over $20m and the. We end up with the same team next season

I agree with you. Unless they want to re-sign Maton, I think all should be made available.

They can trade Maton and still resign him…

True

I think he’s a valuable chip…..the club should cash in that chip for the future….

Then take a run at him in the winter..

Would you deal Maton and Helsley if you were in charge?

yes.......I see no reason not to

Sure, for the right return of prospects who are within a year or two of making the jump to the big club. As has been discussed ad naseam on CT, this team is at best going to sneak into the WC spot. They don't have the pitching to go anywhere in the playoffs. Fine. We are giving young players experience and it is woefully obvious what the team needs. More SPs who are not all back of the rotation starters. A RH hitting OFer who can put up an OPS north of .800 and play adequate D. Other things as well... There are some nice pieces to build around, but lots of redundancy and mediocrity. So I would certainly trade a guy like Hels who you are not going to sign anyway. Maton has been great, but this team is not going deep into the playoffs even if they get into them....

45s wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 09:42 am

bccardsfan wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 09:14 am

45s wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:57 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 22:11 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:19 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:14 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:11 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:08 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:18 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 18:52 pm They can at least attempt to move Helsley. They won't re-sign him and should get a decent return. And they should look to deal one of Nootbaar/Burleson/Gorman.

Mo saying he doesn't want to impact the future roster tells me Bloom is not getting equal say. He could easily ask Chaim which players can be dealt. Or it's just Mo using a new excuse to do nothing. He's had several over the last 17 years.

Moving any pending FA has zero effect on the future roster. Maton Helsley Fedde and Mikolas all need to go. I think Helsely accepts a QO for over $20m and the. We end up with the same team next season

I agree with you. Unless they want to re-sign Maton, I think all should be made available.

They can trade Maton and still resign him…

True

I think he’s a valuable chip…..the club should cash in that chip for the future….

Then take a run at him in the winter..

Would you deal Maton and Helsley if you were in charge?

yes.......I see no reason not to

Sure, for the right return of prospects who are within a year or two of making the jump to the big club. As has been discussed ad naseam on CT, this team is at best going to sneak into the WC spot. They don't have the pitching to go anywhere in the playoffs. Fine. We are giving young players experience and it is woefully obvious what the team needs. More SPs who are not all back of the rotation starters. A RH hitting OFer who can put up an OPS north of .800 and play adequate D. Other things as well... There are some nice pieces to build around, but lots of redundancy and mediocrity. So I would certainly trade a guy like Hels who you are not going to sign anyway. Maton has been great, but this team is not going deep into the playoffs even if they get into them....

in oct.....what do followers want to observe about the club...?

they cleaned up the roster and acquired some solid building blocks

or

they did finish .500 and were close to that third wild card

45s wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 09:42 am

bccardsfan wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 09:14 am

45s wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:57 am

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 22:11 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:19 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:14 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:11 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 20:08 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 19:18 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 18:52 pm They can at least attempt to move Helsley. They won't re-sign him and should get a decent return. And they should look to deal one of Nootbaar/Burleson/Gorman.

Mo saying he doesn't want to impact the future roster tells me Bloom is not getting equal say. He could easily ask Chaim which players can be dealt. Or it's just Mo using a new excuse to do nothing. He's had several over the last 17 years.

Moving any pending FA has zero effect on the future roster. Maton Helsley Fedde and Mikolas all need to go. I think Helsely accepts a QO for over $20m and the. We end up with the same team next season

I agree with you. Unless they want to re-sign Maton, I think all should be made available.

They can trade Maton and still resign him…

True

I think he’s a valuable chip…..the club should cash in that chip for the future….

Then take a run at him in the winter..

Would you deal Maton and Helsley if you were in charge?

yes.......I see no reason not to

Sure, for the right return of prospects who are within a year or two of making the jump to the big club. As has been discussed ad naseam on CT, this team is at best going to sneak into the WC spot. They don't have the pitching to go anywhere in the playoffs. Fine. We are giving young players experience and it is woefully obvious what the team needs. More SPs who are not all back of the rotation starters. A RH hitting OFer who can put up an OPS north of .800 and play adequate D. Other things as well... There are some nice pieces to build around, but lots of redundancy and mediocrity. So I would certainly trade a guy like Hels who you are not going to sign anyway. Maton has been great, but this team is not going deep into the playoffs even if they get into them....

in oct.....what do followers want to observe about the club...?

they cleaned up the roster and acquired some solid building blocks

or

they did finish .500 and were close to that third wild card

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 22:11 pm
Would you deal Maton and Helsley if you were in charge?

DwaininAztec wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 12:35 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 22:11 pm
Would you deal Maton and Helsley if you were in charge?

They along with Noot and maybe Burly, if the return is acceptable. The return I would like would be an AA pitcher with potential to be a 2 or 3, along with an OF who looks to be good defensively and has 25-30 HR power potential.

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:00 pm Buy or sell. IDC. Either go big and obtain a RH power bat and a TOR SP or sell all the pending FA. Don’t do nothin or just a marginal move. Standing pat is the worst thing ownership can do.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 13:04 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:00 pm Buy or sell. IDC. Either go big and obtain a RH power bat and a TOR SP or sell all the pending FA. Don’t do nothin or just a marginal move. Standing pat is the worst thing ownership can do.

You know Mo ybit

Here comes that middle RP no one ever heard of.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 13:37 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 13:04 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:00 pm Buy or sell. IDC. Either go big and obtain a RH power bat and a TOR SP or sell all the pending FA. Don’t do nothin or just a marginal move. Standing pat is the worst thing ownership can do.

You know Mo ybit

Here comes that middle RP no one ever heard of.

Or a TOR SP from 2015, who’s now aging and on his last leg.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 13:47 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 13:37 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 13:04 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:00 pm Buy or sell. IDC. Either go big and obtain a RH power bat and a TOR SP or sell all the pending FA. Don’t do nothin or just a marginal move. Standing pat is the worst thing ownership can do.

You know Mo ybit

Here comes that middle RP no one ever heard of.

Or a TOR SP from 2015, who’s now aging and on his last leg.

He's soooooooooooo predictable, can't wait for him to be gone (and take Oli w/him).