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Futuregm2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:54 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore. But he lacks consistency.

Why should Burleson be untouchable?

2024 1st half: .288/.320/.494/.814 14 2B 17 HR 53 RBI 127 OPS+
2025 1st half: .293/.340/.466/.806 17 2B 11 HR 43 RBI 124 OPS+

2024 finish: .269/.314/.420 20 2B 21 HR 78 RBI 104 OPS+
2025 finish: ???

Hopefully he’s worked on his conditioning and has a better 2nd half in 2025 than he did in 2024. But I still question why a platoon player without a set defensive position like Burleson is “untouchable”.

ClassicO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:28 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:19 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:18 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:16 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:11 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:54 pm

rightthinker4 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:40 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.

So your clogging DH and Burelson Walker Gorman can go. Sounds good to me. Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and then must add a RH RF

You're right.
This team has 4 DHs with Walker, Gorman, Herrera, and Burly. The first two haven't figured out how to hit and the last two should not play defense. Do we need all four? Maybe only one - IH.
They need a CFer and RFer who can hit and play D. So do other teams.
It's hard to believe Josh Baez is the only one they have in the minors with even a hope of filling one of those roles. Awful.

Burleson is a very good defensive firstbaseman whether you realize it or not.

Do you purposely try to embarrass yourself in other parts of life?

No need to get personal. That's for low self esteem sorts. Do you not feel Burleson is a vert good defensive first baseman?

My apologies. No, he's not a very good first baseman. The internet has sites to verify this, and I know you can use the internet.
In short, he's 32nd in DRS and 28th in OAA among 1st basemen with over 100 ABs. That's not "very good."
And do you want to move Contreras off 1b?

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:28 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:26 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:23 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:21 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:20 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:16 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:11 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:54 pm

rightthinker4 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:40 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.

So your clogging DH and Burelson Walker Gorman can go. Sounds good to me. Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and then must add a RH RF

You're right.
This team has 4 DHs with Walker, Gorman, Herrera, and Burly. The first two haven't figured out how to hit and the last two should not play defense. Do we need all four? Maybe only one - IH.
They need a CFer and RFer who can hit and play D. So do other teams.
It's hard to believe Josh Baez is the only one they have in the minors with even a hope of filling one of those roles. Awful.

Burleson is a very good defensive firstbaseman whether you realize it or not.

This is wonderful news because the Red Sox, Mariners, Rangers, and Twins are all contending and need help at 1B.

Some of those teams, maybe all, would be elated to add Burly to the lineup.

I agree, and this is why I could see him being traded. Heck, there are teams that would be so thrilled to see him in their lineup that they would put him in a corner OF spot.

Burleson can fricken' hit. And most MLB organizations likely know it.

I say you're right! Let's trade him and make 'em pay!

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:28 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:26 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:23 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:21 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:20 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:16 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:11 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:54 pm

rightthinker4 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:40 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.

So your clogging DH and Burelson Walker Gorman can go. Sounds good to me. Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and then must add a RH RF

You're right.
This team has 4 DHs with Walker, Gorman, Herrera, and Burly. The first two haven't figured out how to hit and the last two should not play defense. Do we need all four? Maybe only one - IH.
They need a CFer and RFer who can hit and play D. So do other teams.
It's hard to believe Josh Baez is the only one they have in the minors with even a hope of filling one of those roles. Awful.

Burleson is a very good defensive firstbaseman whether you realize it or not.

This is wonderful news because the Red Sox, Mariners, Rangers, and Twins are all contending and need help at 1B.

Some of those teams, maybe all, would be elated to add Burly to the lineup.

I agree, and this is why I could see him being traded. Heck, there are teams that would be so thrilled to see him in their lineup that they would put him in a corner OF spot.

Burleson can fricken' hit. And most MLB organizations likely know it.

I say you're right! Let's trade him and make 'em pay!

2ninr wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:36 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:28 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:26 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:23 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:21 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:20 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:16 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:11 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:54 pm

rightthinker4 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:40 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.

So your clogging DH and Burelson Walker Gorman can go. Sounds good to me. Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and then must add a RH RF

You're right.
This team has 4 DHs with Walker, Gorman, Herrera, and Burly. The first two haven't figured out how to hit and the last two should not play defense. Do we need all four? Maybe only one - IH.
They need a CFer and RFer who can hit and play D. So do other teams.
It's hard to believe Josh Baez is the only one they have in the minors with even a hope of filling one of those roles. Awful.

Burleson is a very good defensive firstbaseman whether you realize it or not.

This is wonderful news because the Red Sox, Mariners, Rangers, and Twins are all contending and need help at 1B.

Some of those teams, maybe all, would be elated to add Burly to the lineup.

I agree, and this is why I could see him being traded. Heck, there are teams that would be so thrilled to see him in their lineup that they would put him in a corner OF spot.

Burleson can fricken' hit. And most MLB organizations likely know it.

I say you're right! Let's trade him and make 'em pay!

Who can we get rh outfielder close to majors for Burleson? That's a deal I make.

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:38 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:36 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:28 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:26 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:23 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:21 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:20 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:16 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:11 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:54 pm

rightthinker4 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:40 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

Of the four players mentioned, only Herrera is an untouchable. That doesn’t mean I think the other three should be traded. If Bloom (not MO) needs to include any of those players in a trade that he feels upgrades the team, I wouldn’t be unhappy.

So your clogging DH and Burelson Walker Gorman can go. Sounds good to me. Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and then must add a RH RF

You're right.
This team has 4 DHs with Walker, Gorman, Herrera, and Burly. The first two haven't figured out how to hit and the last two should not play defense. Do we need all four? Maybe only one - IH.
They need a CFer and RFer who can hit and play D. So do other teams.
It's hard to believe Josh Baez is the only one they have in the minors with even a hope of filling one of those roles. Awful.

Burleson is a very good defensive firstbaseman whether you realize it or not.

This is wonderful news because the Red Sox, Mariners, Rangers, and Twins are all contending and need help at 1B.

Some of those teams, maybe all, would be elated to add Burly to the lineup.

I agree, and this is why I could see him being traded. Heck, there are teams that would be so thrilled to see him in their lineup that they would put him in a corner OF spot.

Burleson can fricken' hit. And most MLB organizations likely know it.

I say you're right! Let's trade him and make 'em pay!

Who can we get rh outfielder close to majors for Burleson? That's a deal I make.

Would you trade Burleson for Robert, even up?

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:54 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:43 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:40 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:06 pm

bakker wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:05 pm I actually think Donovan could be traded. Not so much at the trade deadline but in the offseason. Looking at the Cardinal roster and their best prospects he might be available. He could bring quality in return. This isn't a shot at BD but just reality. Plus I think he has 2 more years before FA (maybe it's 3) and the '27 season could be problematic due to the labor situation.

I agree, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bloom trades Donovan.

Donovan is seen as one of the new team leaders, one Bloom will want to build around.

I'd bet he gets an extension (maybe Bloom's first) that buys out the remaining ARB years plus first two-three free agent years taking him to his age 32/33 seasons.

Personally he’s not a guy I overpay for. I like him as a player, but I’d be careful about signing him to too big of a contract. He’ll probably be looking for an Edman like deal at least (5 years/$75ish million).

Edman signed that extension as he was becoming a free agent, i.e. none of the 5 years covered arb years. Donovan probably does want equivalent dollars, but because it would cover 2 arb years it would be a bit cheaper, probably 5/$60-65M. As many people that want to trade Donovan on here, it is hard to find players that play good defense and hit to an 800 OPS. Keep him, I don't care where he plays. That 5/$65M is a bargain contract.

To the crowd that says he doesn't hit enough HRs to play LF. I will take his consistency and decent defense over all the other folks we have put in the OF the last 10 years. When we find one OF that is better than him, just one, then we can talk about another upgrade...

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:46 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

I like Burleson but I halfway hope he is traded just so you’ll stop inundating this place with posts about him. Unfortunately, I’m sure you’d do the same thing with some other player anyway.

AnExParrot wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:43 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:46 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

I like Burleson but I halfway hope he is traded just so you’ll stop inundating this place with posts about him. Unfortunately, I’m sure you’d do the same thing with some other player anyway.

That wouldn't stop the posts about him. They'd just pop up every time Burly has a decent stretch at the plate, lamenting "the loss."

woofy25 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 15:57 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 15:47 pm

woofy25 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 15:37 pm

Red7 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:33 pm Outside of Winn, Wetherholt, and Matthews, there’s no one in the organization who isn’t moveable. There’s nobody on the 26 outside of Winn that is a cornerstone player. Everyone else is a complimentary piece. Liberatore is finally showing promise, but if this qualifies as his breakout season, that’s scary.

It seems to me that a lot of people here are mindlessly locked in on Winn. And, I'm not 100% sure why. Maybe it's because he hasn't been as bad as Walker?
His career to-date is defined as a defensive first player (excellent at short) with slightly below average offensive numbers. He's having a worse season at the plate so far this year, than last. Not by much, but one would hope he would have taken a big step forward in '25 rather than a slight regression. It's great he's only 23, because he does still have time to improve at the plate. His numbers represent a 7-8 hitter rather than a player hitting in the 2 hole.
I'm not yet sold on Winn being given the SS job through his arbitration years. Am I the only one?

TBH, it's hard to evaluate any of our players. If someone did make that trade offer, I'd be worried.
With Wetherholt coming along. If Mo can get a future top of the rotation pitcher and a righty hitting OF slugger that's close to the bigs in a 2 for 1 deal for Winn. Maybe they are already MLB players. Why wouldn't he?

I believe you are vastly overestimating Winn's worth. I don't see any team offering that in return for a below league average hitter, even if he does only commit three errors a season. IDK, maybe it's me. I'm completely open to being wrong on Winn. I did think he'd be more of an offensive threat at this point. Maybe the offense is coming in his mid 20's. That's fair.

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 18:09 pm

AnExParrot wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 17:43 pm

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:46 pm

Shady wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:46 pm Donovan, Winn, Herrera and Burleson. Just about every other player should be available including Liberatore. I'd like to include Liberatore as not being available. But he lacks consistency.

I like Burleson but I halfway hope he is traded just so you’ll stop inundating this place with posts about him. Unfortunately, I’m sure you’d do the same thing with some other player anyway.

That wouldn't stop the posts about him. They'd just pop up every time Burly has a decent stretch at the plate, lamenting "the loss."

You are a deadbeat. Try adding something of value to an interesting trades discussion.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:32 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).

Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.

I deal any and all. None are untouchable

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:43 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:40 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:06 pm

bakker wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 14:05 pm I actually think Donovan could be traded. Not so much at the trade deadline but in the offseason. Looking at the Cardinal roster and their best prospects he might be available. He could bring quality in return. This isn't a shot at BD but just reality. Plus I think he has 2 more years before FA (maybe it's 3) and the '27 season could be problematic due to the labor situation.

I agree, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bloom trades Donovan.

Donovan is seen as one of the new team leaders, one Bloom will want to build around.

I'd bet he gets an extension (maybe Bloom's first) that buys out the remaining ARB years plus first two-three free agent years taking him to his age 32/33 seasons.

Personally he’s not a guy I overpay for. I like him as a player, but I’d be careful about signing him to too big of a contract. He’ll probably be looking for an Edman like deal at least (5 years/$75ish million).

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:25 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:32 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).

Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.

I deal any and all. None are untouchable

I can see your point scouty.

BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.

JMO

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:33 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:25 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:32 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).

Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.

I deal any and all. None are untouchable

I can see your point scouty.

BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.

JMO

Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.

Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.

Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:46 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:33 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Jul 2025 08:25 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 16:32 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑16 Jul 2025 13:58 pm In the right deal, I'd trade Burleson and Winn (JJW on the way and can play SS).

Agree on not dealing Donny or Hererra.

I deal any and all. None are untouchable

I can see your point scouty.

BUT given the return is nothing but prospects, the vast majority who become suspects, I'm keeping Donny (all-star) and Hererra (could finally get his OF'ers glove I've been clamoring for since last season) to build around.

JMO

Winn is a keeper. I see a Renteria type hitter, an Ozzie type glove, and a Templeton type arm.

Gibson had Maxvill. The worst hitting position player in baseball.

Donovan Winn McG Herrera Gorman- my future first baseman.

I'm not as high on him BDog, NO WAY I see a Renteria type hitter or even close to an Ozzie type glove.

Better arm than Temp though.

Perhaps the Cardinals aren't either given JJW is getting so much time at SS?

I'd deal him for the right major league player, not a prospect.