STLtoday.com

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:29 am

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 09:47 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 09:43 am

RunSup wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 09:38 am Absolutely. Oneil Cruz needed to hit the dirt after Skenes hit Contreras. The fact that no Cardinal pitcher responded was weak. Not even pitching inside.

Libby ought to make a statement to Skenes and Pirates today with the first pitch to Cruz. If the Cardinals don't respond they get what they deserve.

Hitting a player on purpose regardless of the situation requires strategy. Not just something you do daily. Hit a human.

So with strategy in mind, the hit must come at the least impactful moment in a game, say a blow out.

Or just let it go. A win is worth much more than spiteful retaliation. It’s like two wins.

But it isn't about the game, per se. Contreras keeps getting buzzed and hit because other teams know the Cardinals are wimps and won't retaliate. Change that perception and Contreras starts getting pitched differently. And he's less likely to get hurt.

Not a fan of purposeful hitting, but that is the strongest argument I’ve heard in favor of it.

Worst thing about DH is a pitcher can hit a guy purposely, then go hide out in the dugout and never have to stand in the box himself.

How about a rule that when a pitcher hits a guy, he has to take the next DH at-bat?

Yeah, I had that thought about the pitcher.

It's a delicate thing in baseball, and always has been. The most effective purpose pitch is one that just puts a guy on his (bleep), or if it does hit him it does so on a fleshy part and not a bone. The point is the message, and should never be to hurt a guy.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:34 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:32 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 09:49 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:52 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:50 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:37 am

ilcubuffs wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:36 am Would have greater impact if Cardinal pitchers started throwing at Cardinal batters and Marmot. Lack of production and in game strategy is self evident.

What strategy did Oli not employ? Enlighten me please.

Squeeze play in the 9th w/VSII?

Have you seen MLB players bunt? Have you seen Argo's horrible attempts?

I suspect the team knows they blow at bunting. How many squeeze plays occur in MLB? Bunting is a lost art throughout the league.

When he squares quickly, he's good at it. When he tries to disguise it and squares late, he's not.

On a squeeze w/even a decent runner like Fermin the odds are strong he walks home since he's coming full tilt and all you have to do is put the bunt in play.

But strategic thinking evades Oli so I didn't think he'd use it.

no, they like al of MLB, suck at it...And a suicide squeeze is last second presentation. high failure rates.

Simply getting these [shirt]ty hitters to pop up to the outfield is the best and easiest way...

Actually high success rate as long as the hitter gets the bunt down.

High success if the player hits the ball to the outfield. Or gets a hit.

This is fun

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:46 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:34 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:32 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 09:49 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:52 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:50 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:37 am

ilcubuffs wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:36 am Would have greater impact if Cardinal pitchers started throwing at Cardinal batters and Marmot. Lack of production and in game strategy is self evident.

What strategy did Oli not employ? Enlighten me please.

Squeeze play in the 9th w/VSII?

Have you seen MLB players bunt? Have you seen Argo's horrible attempts?

I suspect the team knows they blow at bunting. How many squeeze plays occur in MLB? Bunting is a lost art throughout the league.

When he squares quickly, he's good at it. When he tries to disguise it and squares late, he's not.

On a squeeze w/even a decent runner like Fermin the odds are strong he walks home since he's coming full tilt and all you have to do is put the bunt in play.

But strategic thinking evades Oli so I didn't think he'd use it.

no, they like al of MLB, suck at it...And a suicide squeeze is last second presentation. high failure rates.

Simply getting these [shirt]ty hitters to pop up to the outfield is the best and easiest way...

Actually high success rate as long as the hitter gets the bunt down.

High success if the player hits the ball to the outfield. Or gets a hit.

This is fun

How'd that work last night?

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:48 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:46 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:34 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 11:32 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 09:49 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:52 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:50 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:37 am

ilcubuffs wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 08:36 am Would have greater impact if Cardinal pitchers started throwing at Cardinal batters and Marmot. Lack of production and in game strategy is self evident.

What strategy did Oli not employ? Enlighten me please.

Squeeze play in the 9th w/VSII?

Have you seen MLB players bunt? Have you seen Argo's horrible attempts?

I suspect the team knows they blow at bunting. How many squeeze plays occur in MLB? Bunting is a lost art throughout the league.

When he squares quickly, he's good at it. When he tries to disguise it and squares late, he's not.

On a squeeze w/even a decent runner like Fermin the odds are strong he walks home since he's coming full tilt and all you have to do is put the bunt in play.

But strategic thinking evades Oli so I didn't think he'd use it.

no, they like al of MLB, suck at it...And a suicide squeeze is last second presentation. high failure rates.

Simply getting these [shirt]ty hitters to pop up to the outfield is the best and easiest way...

Actually high success rate as long as the hitter gets the bunt down.

High success if the player hits the ball to the outfield. Or gets a hit.

This is fun

How'd that work last night?

Like I thought it would...and I guarantee a bunt would have failed because they are horrible at it!

OK - I think this game is over so ... start throwing at 'em Sonny!

They laid down like [kittycats] in this series

Leahy should have been drilling hitters in 8th

They just want their little off day

Lack of leadership from manager and vets

I'll mark this as the end of the Cardinals attempt to compete this season.

No response to WC being plunked. Pitchers don't have hitters backs. Apathetic offense. Swept by the lowly Pirates.

Can they bounce back from this new low? Really they don't have what it takes to win this year. If just in the clubhouse.

The Cubs series will confirm it.

WC still cares. Arenado still cares. Do them a favor and trade them to a team that cares about winning.

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 09:36 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑01 Jul 2025 22:17 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑01 Jul 2025 22:01 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑01 Jul 2025 21:59 pm Yes, retaliate and put a runner on base in a game that was decided 1-0. That makes a lot of sense.

But tomorrow perhaps could be fair game. I just think it would have been stupid to intentionally put a player on base today.

That was implied in the thread, maybe read a little closer

Title says that Willson is upset that the Cardinals don’t retaliate. That implies he’s upset that we didn’t retaliate tonight.

And he's right. Pallante should have plunked a batter the very next inning. And so what if he put a runner on base in a scoreless game? I can guarandamntee you the game would have played out differently after that. You DO NOT hold back on doing something you have to do because you are scared of putting someone on base.

Absolutely. Contreras is right.
Revenge can also motivate your team, because, you know, your manager is protecting you.
Dolt of a manager.

Poor poor pitiful me
Poor poor pitiful me
Oh these boys won't let me be
Lord have mercy on me
Woe woe is me

-Warren Zevon

Asking - When he was a catcher was he calling knockdown pitches? The move he pulled at first base where he tripped the Phillies player and then wanted to fight someone in the Phillies dugout makes me wonder if he has a history and that's why he gets pitched inside.

Double digit hbp 7 of 10 MLB seasons. Or is he just slow at getting out of the way?

I understand Willson wanting the pitchers to return the favor, but guys who crowd the plate, check with Craig Biggio or Don Baylor, will get hit often. Some even invite it, see Ron Hunt. If you don't want to get hit as often, then you stand further from the plate.

DwaininAztec wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 15:32 pm I understand Willson wanting the pitchers to return the favor, but guys who crowd the plate, check with Craig Biggio or Don Baylor, will get hit often. Some even invite it, see Ron Hunt. If you don't want to get hit as often, then you stand further from the plate.

Don Baylor didn't do something Biggio and Contreras do. He didn't wear an elbow pad.

I have a solution: When the pitch is coming at you……GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!

You stand up for your teammates.

You have a clubhouse to consider and backs to cover.

Not responding is not a good sign.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 17:44 pm You stand up for your teammates.

You have a clubhouse to consider and backs to cover.

Not responding is not a good sign.

Still waiting for a link where he said this

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 18:56 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 17:44 pm You stand up for your teammates.

You have a clubhouse to consider and backs to cover.

Not responding is not a good sign.

Still waiting for a link where he said this

Go find it yourself idiot

It was in the P-D

Link that (buzz)

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 18:56 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑02 Jul 2025 17:44 pm You stand up for your teammates.

You have a clubhouse to consider and backs to cover.

Not responding is not a good sign.

Still waiting for a link where he said this

That's my opinion.