STLtoday.com

3dender wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:50 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

This may be the first time I've ever totally agreed with Cranny.

Anyone saying Winn has disappointed in any way is simply a moron. Do y'all know how rare it is for any rookie to hit the ground running like he has, and put up 3+ WAR in his first two seasons? And how much rarer at age 22?

After this his 2nd season Winn will have put up around 1/3 of the WAR that Kolten Wong did in his entire career. He's already the best SS they've had in 20 years, and he's likely to get a lot better as he gets more experienced and mature (both physically and mentally). In 5 years he could very well be getting MVP votes.

2ninr wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 04:45 am

3dender wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:50 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

This may be the first time I've ever totally agreed with Cranny.

Anyone saying Winn has disappointed in any way is simply a moron. Do y'all know how rare it is for any rookie to hit the ground running like he has, and put up 3+ WAR in his first two seasons? And how much rarer at age 22?

After this his 2nd season Winn will have put up around 1/3 of the WAR that Kolten Wong did in his entire career. He's already the best SS they've had in 20 years, and he's likely to get a lot better as he gets more experienced and mature (both physically and mentally). In 5 years he could very well be getting MVP votes.

BPOT

AnExParrot wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 05:08 am

2ninr wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 04:45 am

3dender wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:50 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

This may be the first time I've ever totally agreed with Cranny.

Anyone saying Winn has disappointed in any way is simply a moron. Do y'all know how rare it is for any rookie to hit the ground running like he has, and put up 3+ WAR in his first two seasons? And how much rarer at age 22?

After this his 2nd season Winn will have put up around 1/3 of the WAR that Kolten Wong did in his entire career. He's already the best SS they've had in 20 years, and he's likely to get a lot better as he gets more experienced and mature (both physically and mentally). In 5 years he could very well be getting MVP votes.

BPOT

Burn Pits and Other Toxins?

2ninr wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 05:11 am

AnExParrot wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 05:08 am

2ninr wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 04:45 am

3dender wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:50 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

This may be the first time I've ever totally agreed with Cranny.

Anyone saying Winn has disappointed in any way is simply a moron. Do y'all know how rare it is for any rookie to hit the ground running like he has, and put up 3+ WAR in his first two seasons? And how much rarer at age 22?

After this his 2nd season Winn will have put up around 1/3 of the WAR that Kolten Wong did in his entire career. He's already the best SS they've had in 20 years, and he's likely to get a lot better as he gets more experienced and mature (both physically and mentally). In 5 years he could very well be getting MVP votes.

BPOT

Burn Pits and Other Toxins?

Best player on team.

2ninr wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 05:11 am

AnExParrot wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 05:08 am

2ninr wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 04:45 am

3dender wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:50 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 07:37 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

So a draftee who made the majors at 21 years old, and is still only 23, and just starting to come into his own is being judged by you. Got it.

This may be the first time I've ever totally agreed with Cranny.

Anyone saying Winn has disappointed in any way is simply a moron. Do y'all know how rare it is for any rookie to hit the ground running like he has, and put up 3+ WAR in his first two seasons? And how much rarer at age 22?

After this his 2nd season Winn will have put up around 1/3 of the WAR that Kolten Wong did in his entire career. He's already the best SS they've had in 20 years, and he's likely to get a lot better as he gets more experienced and mature (both physically and mentally). In 5 years he could very well be getting MVP votes.

BPOT

Burn Pits and Other Toxins?

Best player on team.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 03:40 am

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 15:38 pm The team has been burned in the past signing players to extensions too quickly. Let's wait until next year to fully evaluate him. And decide then.

They've mostly gotten burned by signing older players that they knew a lot about - Matt Carpenter, Mikolas, Molina, etc. - to extensions before they needed to.

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 09:54 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 03:40 am

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 15:38 pm The team has been burned in the past signing players to extensions too quickly. Let's wait until next year to fully evaluate him. And decide then.

They've mostly gotten burned by signing older players that they knew a lot about - Matt Carpenter, Mikolas, Molina, etc. - to extensions before they needed to.

Yes. But I remember Craig fell off a cliff not long after he resigned.

Wattage wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 06:29 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 03:40 am Cards should absolutely draft one of
Aiva Arquette, Eli Willits or Billy Carlson.
Winn I don't think is the LT solution.
Has a great arm, but other than that the
D isn't really elite and the hitting isn't either.
The big three of Walker, Gorman and Winn
are turning out to be duds.
Burleson and Donovan are the keepers here.
I expect JJ to step up and so, we need one more.
Burleson, Donovan, JJ and Billy Carlson be a nice 4some.
Not giving up on Winn, but just not superb by any means.

I dont necessarily disagree on extending winn, but calling him a dud is asinine.

AnExParrot wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 06:50 am
Ahh thanks, the coffee doesn't seem to be coffee-ing yet this morning.

3dender wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 09:59 am

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 09:54 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 03:40 am

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 15:38 pm The team has been burned in the past signing players to extensions too quickly. Let's wait until next year to fully evaluate him. And decide then.

They've mostly gotten burned by signing older players that they knew a lot about - Matt Carpenter, Mikolas, Molina, etc. - to extensions before they needed to.

Yes. But I remember Craig fell off a cliff not long after he resigned.

Yes I guess they should have anticipated his career-derailing foot injury.

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 10:08 am

3dender wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 09:59 am

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 09:54 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 03:40 am

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 15:38 pm The team has been burned in the past signing players to extensions too quickly. Let's wait until next year to fully evaluate him. And decide then.

They've mostly gotten burned by signing older players that they knew a lot about - Matt Carpenter, Mikolas, Molina, etc. - to extensions before they needed to.

Yes. But I remember Craig fell off a cliff not long after he resigned.

Yes I guess they should have anticipated his career-derailing foot injury.

I wouldn't have thought it would ruin his swing forever. It certainly didn't when he hit .375 in the World Series 6 weeks later.

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 10:39 am Winn isn’t even Arb eligible until 2027.
Teams usually look to buy out a couple of Arb seasons with extensions.
If they follow that then two more seasons after 2025 before they make a move??

bccardsfan wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 16:30 pm Winn steals an out or two a game with that arm. He doubled up Elly De La Cruz today and there are very few SS that could have made that pivot to get him. I have no idea how all of this shows up in defensive metrics, but I want that kid playing D for me. If he hits well enough to bat 7th or 8th that is fine for me....

3dender wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 10:43 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 10:39 am Winn isn’t even Arb eligible until 2027.
Teams usually look to buy out a couple of Arb seasons with extensions.
If they follow that then two more seasons after 2025 before they make a move??

...would drastically increase his AAV over the course of the contract. The reason you do it know is because it's tens of millions cheaper.

The whole point is to balance bust potential with cost control, so when you see a guy with a 3 WAR floor come along you lock him up asap.

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑24 Jun 2025 09:54 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Jun 2025 03:40 am

DIAMONDINTHEROUGH wrote: ↑22 Jun 2025 15:38 pm The team has been burned in the past signing players to extensions too quickly. Let's wait until next year to fully evaluate him. And decide then.

They've mostly gotten burned by signing older players that they knew a lot about - Matt Carpenter, Mikolas, Molina, etc. - to extensions before they needed to.

Yes. But I remember Craig fell off a cliff not long after he resigned.