Is Gorman right sized in his current role?

[Melville]

Gorman needs to be at Memphis getting AB's, not rotting on the bench

Good job Mo

Agree, Gorman is seeing way too much bench time. He needs to be playing 3B and 2B at Memphis. As of now, I am not seeing him as an heir apparent at 3B for Nado. Glad the Cards have decided so far to keep Nado. I could see Wetherholt or Saggese or both playing 3B or 2B within this season or next.

If they keep him up here, then he's GOT to play 3rd base at least once a week (a day off/week would do NADO good) and 2nd at least once/week too.

They have to be getting close to Memphis time.

I honestly can't fault Oli here for not playing him when the team is on a 15-4 run and only 2 game back.

I've ALWAYS felt MLB is NOT the place you develop players, that's what the minor leagues are for and it appears Gorman's regression means he needs more development time.

Unlike N/A, Walker, Herrera and a few others, Gorman has the ability to play 2B/3B/1B/DH and being a LH hitter, meaning it would be easy and practical to start him 3 times a week.
Gorman has had very good overall success at the MLB level and needs no further "development" in the minors.
He simply needs to play and get the 500 PA's in a single season as Super Slo Mo originally committed to.
Then STL can make an informed decision about the future.
But, what we are seeing is The Marmot displaying the same poor leadership skills as he has so many times in the past.
He has zero ability to think long term.
And very little ability to think strategically.
Instead, it is very clear that he is once again playing the silly "sending a message" game which has backfired several times previously.
And it is doing so once again right now.

I don’t know about 500 pas but he’ll get more PAs eventually someone will get injured and he’ll be needed.

Or when N/A is traded again.

[imadangman]

If they only play him 300-400 PAs per season he'll only ever be a backup guy. Funny how that works.

Misuse of assets not to have given him the "runway" they claimed they would last winter.

And it's funny saying you like his power off the bench. His SLG has completely evaporated this year. Funny how not having consistent PT may affect that.

I think we've seen what happens when they play him full-time. He does not consistently slug because he does all his slugging (and hitting) for about a month. The rest of the time he sucks. He is a Randal Grichuk that happens to play 2B. The uniKKKorn. If what they're doing now is best for the team then do it. Maybe Gorman will have a unicorn good moment as a bench player. Maybe he will even justify semi-regular playing time at some stretch in the future.

[scoutyjones2]

Gorman needs to be at Memphis getting AB's, not rotting on the bench

Good job Mo

Agree, Gorman is seeing way too much bench time. He needs to be playing 3B and 2B at Memphis. As of now, I am not seeing him as an heir apparent at 3B for Nado. Glad the Cards have decided so far to keep Nado. I could see Wetherholt or Saggese or both playing 3B or 2B within this season or next.

If they keep him up here, then he's GOT to play 3rd base at least once a week (a day off/week would do NADO good) and 2nd at least once/week too.

They have to be getting close to Memphis time.

I honestly can't fault Oli here for not playing him when the team is on a 15-4 run and only 2 game back.

I've ALWAYS felt MLB is NOT the place you develop players, that's what the minor leagues are for and it appears Gorman's regression means he needs more development time.

Unlike N/A, Walker, Herrera and a few others, Gorman has the ability to play 2B/3B/1B/DH and being a LH hitter, meaning it would be easy and practical to start him 3 times a week.
Gorman has had very good overall success at the MLB level and needs no further "development" in the minors.
He simply needs to play and get the 500 PA's in a single season as Super Slo Mo originally committed to.
Then STL can make an informed decision about the future.
But, what we are seeing is The Marmot displaying the same poor leadership skills as he has so many times in the past.
He has zero ability to think long term.
And very little ability to think strategically.
Instead, it is very clear that he is once again playing the silly "sending a message" game which has backfired several times previously.
And it is doing so once again right now.

LoL ..Bumbles has the ability to play 1b and OF...that doesn't mean he's good at it. And to state UniKKKorn has had "very good success at the MLB level," is preposterous!

Carter: 3.1 WAR

218/299/423/723...99 OPS+...Below average hitter

He hasn't proved [shirt] at MLB level.

Needs daily field and hitting work in AAA.

[Dewey Kuey]

Defensively in 2024, his batting run value was 22nd (percentile), baserunning 29th, and fielding 19th. His Range OAA 9th percentile, Arm Strength 14th and Sprint Speed 21st. These are all bottom quartile or close to it....

2025 Range shot up SSS, arm strength about the same 19th and sprint speed 18th.

He isn't much on defense or on the bases. He has power and this season seems to have developed the ability to draw some walks. But is he really some poorly developed prospect or is he, what he is as we see him now. Part-time player who has an explosive bat with a lot of miss. I realize his PA's are ~100 this season.

I don't see all the hype, I don't see a missed opportunity like you all. His xwOBA is league average over his last 100 PA's and with a sharp dip over his last 250.

Last year 616 pitches he posted a -4 run value against the fastball and has the same run value this season at 139 pitches vs the fastball

A just a side note. How in the hell did anyone expect him to play 3rd base all season with below average arm strength? Let's all rejoice that Nado wasn't traded

*** I like him in his current role, I like having that power and ability to walk late in games if an injury occurs or there is a favorable match up. Essentially a pitcher who doesn't have an elite fastball.

The Cardinals have been and still are wasting to much time on this guy. He just doesn't have any tools in his box except some power, when he can hit the ball. He doesn't run well and he doesn't field well and I was saying this last year. You don't need numbers, just watch him. He's not going to be a very good ballplayer.

[woofy25]

Is there anything easier than saying one doesn’t see the hype with a once highly regarded prospect hitting under .200 and is barely playing?
He was untouchable in 2021 and 2022 for a reason and had a very good 2023/age 23 season that should have made you excited for his future. He clearly has fallen off the wagon since then.

Gorman is Exhibit A showing the cardinals have not stuck to their stated 2025 plan

Who is he replacing in the lineup?

Kid needs ABs in AAA...he's failed and flailed at MLB. League found his huge and obvious weakness and exploited it.

His numbers suck worse year after year. 53 OPS+

Literally, who could he replace? Well, he could replace anyone of the following when they need a day off: Donovan, Arenado, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbar, Scott, Walker, Winn…..literally anyone except the starting catcher.

[Ozziesfan41]

Is there anything easier than saying one doesn’t see the hype with a once highly regarded prospect hitting under .200 and is barely playing?
He was untouchable in 2021 and 2022 for a reason and had a very good 2023/age 23 season that should have made you excited for his future. He clearly has fallen off the wagon since then.

Gorman is Exhibit A showing the cardinals have not stuck to their stated 2025 plan

Who is he replacing in the lineup?

Kid needs ABs in AAA...he's failed and flailed at MLB. League found his huge and obvious weakness and exploited it.

His numbers suck worse year after year. 53 OPS+

Literally, who could he replace? Well, he could replace anyone of the following when they need a day off: Donovan, Arenado, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbar, Scott, Walker, Winn…..literally anyone except the starting catcher.

It’s stupid for them to keep him in majors but it’s smart to not bench better players just to get a non productive player playing time. He’s not replacing Donovan at second Donovan is one of the best players in the majors he’s not replacing Herrera at DH he’s one of the players they were wanting to get playing time and he’s more than proven he needs to play every day. The only way it would work is if they benched walker moved Donovan to left and noot to right and played Gorman at second but walker is another player they were wanting to get time and he’s actually showing life so it would be dumb to bench him at this point in favor of Gorman. Gorman should be sent down no need to bench good players for him to suck

[scoutyjones2]

Is there anything easier than saying one doesn’t see the hype with a once highly regarded prospect hitting under .200 and is barely playing?
He was untouchable in 2021 and 2022 for a reason and had a very good 2023/age 23 season that should have made you excited for his future. He clearly has fallen off the wagon since then.

Gorman is Exhibit A showing the cardinals have not stuck to their stated 2025 plan

Who is he replacing in the lineup?

Kid needs ABs in AAA...he's failed and flailed at MLB. League found his huge and obvious weakness and exploited it.

His numbers suck worse year after year. 53 OPS+

Literally, who could he replace? Well, he could replace anyone of the following when they need a day off: Donovan, Arenado, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbar, Scott, Walker, Winn…..literally anyone except the starting catcher.

And make the team worse. UniKKKorn needs to be down on the farm, not struggling with a 53 OPS+

[Ike Hammett]

Sounds like he needs to be a house painter

The dude once put up 27 home runs and .805 ops for a season. He has had Ivan Herrera type stretches, dominated in triple A. If you can get that type of power at second base, that's huge. He isn't making big bucks and the team needs power from the bench. Just keep giving him spot starts and around for injuries. Hope he figures it out. If Walker can't stay consistent after June, try Gorman.

[woofy25]

Is there anything easier than saying one doesn’t see the hype with a once highly regarded prospect hitting under .200 and is barely playing?
He was untouchable in 2021 and 2022 for a reason and had a very good 2023/age 23 season that should have made you excited for his future. He clearly has fallen off the wagon since then.

Gorman is Exhibit A showing the cardinals have not stuck to their stated 2025 plan

Who is he replacing in the lineup?

Kid needs ABs in AAA...he's failed and flailed at MLB. League found his huge and obvious weakness and exploited it.

His numbers suck worse year after year. 53 OPS+

Literally, who could he replace? Well, he could replace anyone of the following when they need a day off: Donovan, Arenado, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbar, Scott, Walker, Winn…..literally anyone except the starting catcher.

And make the team worse. UniKKKorn needs to be down on the farm, not struggling with a 53 OPS+

Again, for the 1000th time, the cardinals provided a 2025 plan during the offseason. It’s not my plan. It’s not your plan. It was their plan, and they deviated from it less than a month into the season. Gorman could be and should be playing far more than he is. I stated above that when any of those guys needs a day off, Gorman could be in the lineup. He could easily play 4 days/week. If they continue playing him at the rate they currently are, which is on pace for 250 ABs, then come the offseason, they are not going to have an educated idea of what to do with him. They are not putting him in a position that allows him to succeed or fail on his own. He is getting set up for failure bc very few people can thrive on 250 ABs.

[Spock]

He has DH written all over him and may have value later on and right now he should be on AAA playing everyday

[scoutyjones2]

Is there anything easier than saying one doesn’t see the hype with a once highly regarded prospect hitting under .200 and is barely playing?
He was untouchable in 2021 and 2022 for a reason and had a very good 2023/age 23 season that should have made you excited for his future. He clearly has fallen off the wagon since then.

Gorman is Exhibit A showing the cardinals have not stuck to their stated 2025 plan

Who is he replacing in the lineup?

Kid needs ABs in AAA...he's failed and flailed at MLB. League found his huge and obvious weakness and exploited it.

His numbers suck worse year after year. 53 OPS+

Literally, who could he replace? Well, he could replace anyone of the following when they need a day off: Donovan, Arenado, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbar, Scott, Walker, Winn…..literally anyone except the starting catcher.

And make the team worse. UniKKKorn needs to be down on the farm, not struggling with a 53 OPS+

Again, for the 1000th time, the cardinals provided a 2025 plan during the offseason. It’s not my plan. It’s not your plan. It was their plan, and they deviated from it less than a month into the season. Gorman could be and should be playing far more than he is. I stated above that when any of those guys needs a day off, Gorman could be in the lineup. He could easily play 4 days/week. If they continue playing him at the rate they currently are, which is on pace for 250 ABs, then come the offseason, they are not going to have an educated idea of what to do with him. They are not putting him in a position that allows him to succeed or fail on his own. He is getting set up for failure bc very few people can thrive on 250 ABs.

Plans change. It's funny because you see the dichotomy of placing blame on going by a script with a lineup, or calling it Oli pad. Then the Cards deviate, and they go 16-4 on their last 20, and that's unacceptable.

Whining about a 50 ish OPS + hitter not getting enough consistent ABs while going 16-4, is just CT being CT.

What is wrong with sending him down?

Again, I think there will be decisions made around the 60 game mark

[sikeston bulldog2]

Is there anything easier than saying one doesn’t see the hype with a once highly regarded prospect hitting under .200 and is barely playing?
He was untouchable in 2021 and 2022 for a reason and had a very good 2023/age 23 season that should have made you excited for his future. He clearly has fallen off the wagon since then.

Gorman is Exhibit A showing the cardinals have not stuck to their stated 2025 plan

Who is he replacing in the lineup?

Kid needs ABs in AAA...he's failed and flailed at MLB. League found his huge and obvious weakness and exploited it.

His numbers suck worse year after year. 53 OPS+

Literally, who could he replace? Well, he could replace anyone of the following when they need a day off: Donovan, Arenado, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbar, Scott, Walker, Winn…..literally anyone except the starting catcher.

And make the team worse. UniKKKorn needs to be down on the farm, not struggling with a 53 OPS+

Again, for the 1000th time, the cardinals provided a 2025 plan during the offseason. It’s not my plan. It’s not your plan. It was their plan, and they deviated from it less than a month into the season. Gorman could be and should be playing far more than he is. I stated above that when any of those guys needs a day off, Gorman could be in the lineup. He could easily play 4 days/week. If they continue playing him at the rate they currently are, which is on pace for 250 ABs, then come the offseason, they are not going to have an educated idea of what to do with him. They are not putting him in a position that allows him to succeed or fail on his own. He is getting set up for failure bc very few people can thrive on 250 ABs.

Plans change. It's funny because you see the dichotomy of placing blame on going by a script with a lineup, or calling it Oli pad. Then the Cards deviate, and they go 16-4 on their last 20, and that's unacceptable.

Whining about a 50 ish OPS + hitter not getting enough consistent ABs while going 16-4, is just CT being CT.

What is wrong with sending him down?

Again, I think there will be decisions made around the 60 game mark

Gorman has a couple other things not in his favor. As you note, team is sizzling. No smart manager is gonna deviate much from that position. Gorman in this scenario is a man on an island.

Position. Who does he replace- gold glove Nado or gold glove Donny.

Team chemistry. A bittxch to achieve- an even big issue to continue it.

I see the boy in a trade. Solves that problem.

[scoutyjones2]

Is there anything easier than saying one doesn’t see the hype with a once highly regarded prospect hitting under .200 and is barely playing?
He was untouchable in 2021 and 2022 for a reason and had a very good 2023/age 23 season that should have made you excited for his future. He clearly has fallen off the wagon since then.

Gorman is Exhibit A showing the cardinals have not stuck to their stated 2025 plan

Who is he replacing in the lineup?

Kid needs ABs in AAA...he's failed and flailed at MLB. League found his huge and obvious weakness and exploited it.

His numbers suck worse year after year. 53 OPS+

Literally, who could he replace? Well, he could replace anyone of the following when they need a day off: Donovan, Arenado, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbar, Scott, Walker, Winn…..literally anyone except the starting catcher.

And make the team worse. UniKKKorn needs to be down on the farm, not struggling with a 53 OPS+

Again, for the 1000th time, the cardinals provided a 2025 plan during the offseason. It’s not my plan. It’s not your plan. It was their plan, and they deviated from it less than a month into the season. Gorman could be and should be playing far more than he is. I stated above that when any of those guys needs a day off, Gorman could be in the lineup. He could easily play 4 days/week. If they continue playing him at the rate they currently are, which is on pace for 250 ABs, then come the offseason, they are not going to have an educated idea of what to do with him. They are not putting him in a position that allows him to succeed or fail on his own. He is getting set up for failure bc very few people can thrive on 250 ABs.

Plans change. It's funny because you see the dichotomy of placing blame on going by a script with a lineup, or calling it Oli pad. Then the Cards deviate, and they go 16-4 on their last 20, and that's unacceptable.

Whining about a 50 ish OPS + hitter not getting enough consistent ABs while going 16-4, is just CT being CT.

What is wrong with sending him down?

Again, I think there will be decisions made around the 60 game mark

Gorman has a couple other things not in his favor. As you note, team is sizzling. No smart manager is gonna deviate much from that position. Gorman in this scenario is a man on an island.

Position. Who does he replace- gold glove Nado or gold glove Donny.

Team chemistry. A bittxch to achieve- an even big issue to continue it.

I see the boy in a trade. Solves that problem.

No, the minors to see if he can resucitate the brief glimpses he's shown. No need to trade.

A poor bat without a position but supposed power, needs to be in AAA working things out. Very simple, unless he has no options left to go down to AAA

[sikeston bulldog2]

Is there anything easier than saying one doesn’t see the hype with a once highly regarded prospect hitting under .200 and is barely playing?
He was untouchable in 2021 and 2022 for a reason and had a very good 2023/age 23 season that should have made you excited for his future. He clearly has fallen off the wagon since then.

Gorman is Exhibit A showing the cardinals have not stuck to their stated 2025 plan

Who is he replacing in the lineup?

Kid needs ABs in AAA...he's failed and flailed at MLB. League found his huge and obvious weakness and exploited it.

His numbers suck worse year after year. 53 OPS+

Literally, who could he replace? Well, he could replace anyone of the following when they need a day off: Donovan, Arenado, Burleson, Herrera, Nootbar, Scott, Walker, Winn…..literally anyone except the starting catcher.

And make the team worse. UniKKKorn needs to be down on the farm, not struggling with a 53 OPS+

Again, for the 1000th time, the cardinals provided a 2025 plan during the offseason. It’s not my plan. It’s not your plan. It was their plan, and they deviated from it less than a month into the season. Gorman could be and should be playing far more than he is. I stated above that when any of those guys needs a day off, Gorman could be in the lineup. He could easily play 4 days/week. If they continue playing him at the rate they currently are, which is on pace for 250 ABs, then come the offseason, they are not going to have an educated idea of what to do with him. They are not putting him in a position that allows him to succeed or fail on his own. He is getting set up for failure bc very few people can thrive on 250 ABs.

Plans change. It's funny because you see the dichotomy of placing blame on going by a script with a lineup, or calling it Oli pad. Then the Cards deviate, and they go 16-4 on their last 20, and that's unacceptable.

Whining about a 50 ish OPS + hitter not getting enough consistent ABs while going 16-4, is just CT being CT.

What is wrong with sending him down?

Again, I think there will be decisions made around the 60 game mark

Gorman has a couple other things not in his favor. As you note, team is sizzling. No smart manager is gonna deviate much from that position. Gorman in this scenario is a man on an island.

Position. Who does he replace- gold glove Nado or gold glove Donny.

Team chemistry. A bittxch to achieve- an even big issue to continue it.

I see the boy in a trade. Solves that problem.

No, the minors to see if he can resucitate the brief glimpses he's shown. No need to trade.

A poor bat without a position but supposed power, needs to be in AAA working things out. Very simple, unless he has no options left to go down to AAA

You make a good point reference AAA. I still think they had a play plan for him, but this hot stretch has them focused on same lineup. Gorman now seems to be day off relief.

[hullie]

Is there anything easier than saying one doesn’t see the hype with a once highly regarded prospect hitting under .200 and is barely playing?
He was untouchable in 2021 and 2022 for a reason and had a very good 2023/age 23 season that should have made you excited for his future. He clearly has fallen off the wagon since then.

Gorman is Exhibit A showing the cardinals have not stuck to their stated 2025 plan

Their stated plan was altered when the top 3 exercised their NT clause

[Goldfan]

Well he is 4 for 24 since May 4