What are the Ducks going to do?

[TheJackBurton]

Verbeek is supposedly whining to the league for a comp fifth rounder (not from philly) due to the cost of the contract (not sure how much I believe that) He is totally responsible for this situation having done it to four of his prospects. He is proud (donkey)(pit) who may be stubborn enough to cut Carlsson loose because he (bleep) him.

Hadn't considered his personality in this deal.

Good point if true.

He was on the dirty side as a player, no?

Absolutely. Famously cut a digit off in a bizarre gardening accident. The interesting part of it is that he has like 9 million left to sign gauthier who unlike lc led the team in goals and points and famously spurned the flyers because fletcher did not have enough money to sign him after his freshman year at bc. Losing that year (and money) ticked him off so bad he refused to deal with flyers and briere (who had nothing to do with the decision). Do you think that guy is going to take one for the team and agree to take half of what lc is making ? Unless he signs a heavily backloaded deal but still looking at a minimum between 25 to 34 percent of cap tied up in two players.

Wow signing Gauthier after this debacle was already a concern before I knew all that. Watch Verbeek let Carlsson go to PHI and then sign Gauthier to slightly more.

Going off some of the other posts - The fact he didn't immediately match on Carlsson said so much to me. Now we learn Carlsson even came to him before signing the PHI offer and offered ANA a lower deal at $15m! Could've never been a thing, and would've been like Matthews or Eichel, but now is closer to McDavid.

Could you post the link that establishes this offer by Carlson to the Ducks please?

It was stated on Elliotte Friedman 32 thoughts podcast.

Had not heard that.

It must have been before the offer sheet was even made......and I have to wonder if the agent leaked it to Philly.

the thing that gets me is, you have a player who is making it known he wants to stay and is willing to sign an long term extension with you, and is looking like a player that you want to build around, and you do everything you possibly can to push him out the door.

On 32 Thoughts yesterday, Friedman didn’t throw Verbeek under the bus or anything he names several players that have had to go through tough negations with him. I’m definitely not a fan of giving the players everything they want without, but given today’s landscape, I do wonder if a GM like Verbeek won’t last. How many young players might he alienate simply because he wants to play hardball (more so than is even expected)?

That's kind of my point. You have a young player who is making it known he wants to stay, his original demands weren't outrageous, but probably a little more than they should have been, but with the cap going up, not surprising. Then he comes back and gives you a second opportunity and you still turn him down. At some point they can take a hint.

Yeah, I think with Verbeek it's not even that he doesn't respect or want to keep his players. He was just still operating with the mindset that nobody touches RFAs even though they're technically allowed. That's largely been the case for a long time. Plenty of good players have been squeezed on their RFA contracts because their teams were up against the cap and no other offers were there. But Armstrong re-opened that door with the successful offers to Holloway and Broberg. A lot of other GMs took notice and the gloves are coming off. Combine that with the cap exploding and a super young legit 1C sitting there unsigned. Perfect storm for Briere to go for it. Verbeek should have seen it coming.

Yep. I was meaning along the lines with the "they can take a hint" line was that Verbeek wasn't going to budge on his price and was in no hurry to get the extension done, so as a player why wouldn't you see if there isn't something else out there?

[skilles]

What they should be doing is calling every team and seeing what they can get with 4 first round picks.

I don't think it would be to crazy to think they can't be better the next 5 years by doing that.

[BleedingBleu]

Verbeek is supposedly whining to the league for a comp fifth rounder (not from philly) due to the cost of the contract (not sure how much I believe that) He is totally responsible for this situation having done it to four of his prospects. He is proud (donkey)(pit) who may be stubborn enough to cut Carlsson loose because he (bleep) him.

Hadn't considered his personality in this deal.

Good point if true.

He was on the dirty side as a player, no?

Absolutely. Famously cut a digit off in a bizarre gardening accident. The interesting part of it is that he has like 9 million left to sign gauthier who unlike lc led the team in goals and points and famously spurned the flyers because fletcher did not have enough money to sign him after his freshman year at bc. Losing that year (and money) ticked him off so bad he refused to deal with flyers and briere (who had nothing to do with the decision). Do you think that guy is going to take one for the team and agree to take half of what lc is making ? Unless he signs a heavily backloaded deal but still looking at a minimum between 25 to 34 percent of cap tied up in two players.

Wow signing Gauthier after this debacle was already a concern before I knew all that. Watch Verbeek let Carlsson go to PHI and then sign Gauthier to slightly more.

Going off some of the other posts - The fact he didn't immediately match on Carlsson said so much to me. Now we learn Carlsson even came to him before signing the PHI offer and offered ANA a lower deal at $15m! Could've never been a thing, and would've been like Matthews or Eichel, but now is closer to McDavid.

Could you post the link that establishes this offer by Carlson to the Ducks please?

It was stated on Elliotte Friedman 32 thoughts podcast.

Had not heard that.

It must have been before the offer sheet was even made......and I have to wonder if the agent leaked it to Philly.

the thing that gets me is, you have a player who is making it known he wants to stay and is willing to sign an long term extension with you, and is looking like a player that you want to build around, and you do everything you possibly can to push him out the door.

On 32 Thoughts yesterday, Friedman didn’t throw Verbeek under the bus or anything he names several players that have had to go through tough negations with him. I’m definitely not a fan of giving the players everything they want without, but given today’s landscape, I do wonder if a GM like Verbeek won’t last. How many young players might he alienate simply because he wants to play hardball (more so than is even expected)?

That's kind of my point. You have a young player who is making it known he wants to stay, his original demands weren't outrageous, but probably a little more than they should have been, but with the cap going up, not surprising. Then he comes back and gives you a second opportunity and you still turn him down. At some point they can take a hint.

Yeah, I think with Verbeek it's not even that he doesn't respect or want to keep his players. He was just still operating with the mindset that nobody touches RFAs even though they're technically allowed. That's largely been the case for a long time. Plenty of good players have been squeezed on their RFA contracts because their teams were up against the cap and no other offers were there. But Armstrong re-opened that door with the successful offers to Holloway and Broberg. A lot of other GMs took notice and the gloves are coming off. Combine that with the cap exploding and a super young legit 1C sitting there unsigned. Perfect storm for Briere to go for it. Verbeek should have seen it coming.

I will add in the tanking & lotteries in sports. If you’re team like the Blues, Caps, or Flyers who are always attempting to compete, your not likely to draft in the top 5 without a little help from the Lottery Ball god. More than likely, they’re drafting between 13-24.

Then you see these tanking teams playing [F)ork A)round and F)ind O)ut]. Well, that’s your competition and they’re trying to lock up a premier player through their prime on a discount. I love this kind of stuff. It’s a big FU to those tanking clubs.

I’d laugh my trouser snake off if Bedard got offer sheeted out from under Chicago

[MandatoryDenial]

Curious what ya'll are thinking here.

I'm assuming it's 80/20 they sign him. Because they have to.

I'm in that camp. Because I do believe they have to.

But to be really honest I'm so glad it's not the Blues put in this situation because my gut tells me it's actually the wrong move for multiple reasons.

I would take the picks. That contract is pretty bad for Philly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they start hemorrhaging players and I wouldn’t be surprised if we start to see them miss the playoffs due to an inability to resign people, a lack of first round talent to replace players, and an inability to tweak their roster.

[Old_Goat]

Sorry for the repeat... I just posted this in a different (I guess the wrong) thread...

What if Anaheim doesn't match, but to save face they sign (almost hometown boy) Jason Robertson? Yes, they'll still have to pay some $ more than their historic strategy calls for with players and yes he is a Winger and yes they still need a Center...but maybe they can gain something with any cash savings and future draft, or trades of those picks?

[Bluesfan1978]

My first reaction is I’d let him walk. After thinking about it for days I’d match. I would match, if he doesn’t want to play there too bad. They have 3 34 or older forwards that have modified NTC that combine to 19.75 million. They also still have 100000 in cap space. Worst case they finish the year in the bottom 10 and land another good draft pick next year. Then you trade Carlsson next offseason for a much better return than 4 late draft picks. Or maybe you convince Philly to send one of their young centre prospects for you not to sign. I don’t think they can let him walk for 4 late first round picks.

[noted]

They will match. They are just making Philly wait. Making them wait cost Flyers Giroux who decided the resign with Sens rather than waiting himself.

[smilinjoefission]

Ducks are gonna let him go, collect 4 1st rounders and use that $18mill per for 5 years to get 2 or 3 players who combined will provide more offense than Carlsson AND no alienate the rest of the league (put that on Philly). This isn't Scott Stevens nor Sergei Fedorov.

[Old_Goat]

Sorry for the repeat... I just posted this in a different (I guess the wrong) thread...

What if Anaheim doesn't match, but to save face they sign (almost hometown boy) Jason Robertson? Yes, they'll still have to pay some $ more than their historic strategy calls for with players and yes he is a Winger and yes they still need a Center...but maybe they can gain something with any cash savings and future draft, or trades of those picks?

Never mind...I had missed the filing for arbitration notice by Robertson...moving on.

[dhsux]

Ducks are gonna let him go, collect 4 1st rounders and use that $18mill per for 5 years to get 2 or 3 players who combined will provide more offense than Carlsson AND no alienate the rest of the league (put that on Philly). This isn't Scott Stevens nor Sergei Fedorov.

It's just not a popular position for their management, who are in the crosshairs for this screw up, but you may be right on what they should really do.

He's young and dynamic and he is a center but criminy still not a sure bet for top dollar nevertheless bazaaro dollars. And if he pans out as a top center you still have the 5 year term limiting the value of the contract and squeezing the Ducks all over again in 4 years time.

I still say they sign him but as of now won't be shocked if they don't.

[bluetunehead]

Sorry for the repeat... I just posted this in a different (I guess the wrong) thread...

What if Anaheim doesn't match, but to save face they sign (almost hometown boy) Jason Robertson? Yes, they'll still have to pay some $ more than their historic strategy calls for with players and yes he is a Winger and yes they still need a Center...but maybe they can gain something with any cash savings and future draft, or trades of those picks?

Never mind...I had missed the filing for arbitration notice by Robertson...moving on.

They could in theory still offer up Philly’s four 1sts to Dallas and make it known they can offer more and see if they bite on a trade. Arbitration doesn’t prevent a trade or a sign and trade. But yeah I think Dallas and Robertson both want to make it work. They just have to figure out how. A one-year deal until Seguin is off the books might end up being the answer.

[Army's Mom]

Y'all act like 4 lottery tickets are worth more than a franchise center. 18M is an overpay, and 5 yrs is a bitter pill to swallow, but on the plus side after those 5 yrs he may not even be due much of a raise.

As for the "take the picks and see if you can trade them" route, Army had 4 picks to dangle in THIS draft (more valuable than future picks), and the best he could come up with is Mason McTavish and 2 prospects. You're not flipping PHI's four first rounders for someone of comparable value, period.

The only reason theyre waiting is because either theyre trying to massage their cap as much as they can before committing, or ownership has told Verbeek to not touch anything because he's about to get fired. Either way, their only options are to match or start over.

[Backesdraft]

Y'all act like 4 lottery tickets are worth more than a franchise center. 18M is an overpay, and 5 yrs is a bitter pill to swallow, but on the plus side after those 5 yrs he may not even be due much of a raise.

As for the "take the picks and see if you can trade them" route, Army had 4 picks to dangle in THIS draft (more valuable than future picks), and the best he could come up with is Mason McTavish and 2 prospects. You're not flipping PHI's four first rounders for someone of comparable value, period.

The only reason theyre waiting is because either theyre trying to massage their cap as much as they can before committing, or ownership has told Verbeek to not touch anything because he's about to get fired. Either way, their only options are to match or start over.

I am 100% in the camp of matching. Yes, it’s an overpayment today but in a couple of years it won’t be. And who the heck knows what those 4 draft picks end up being.

Not to mention, the message this sends your fan base. Ducks are finally relevant again. Can’t tear it down again now.

[ShakeyWalton]

Y'all act like 4 lottery tickets are worth more than a franchise center. 18M is an overpay, and 5 yrs is a bitter pill to swallow, but on the plus side after those 5 yrs he may not even be due much of a raise.

As for the "take the picks and see if you can trade them" route, Army had 4 picks to dangle in THIS draft (more valuable than future picks), and the best he could come up with is Mason McTavish and 2 prospects. You're not flipping PHI's four first rounders for someone of comparable value, period.

The only reason theyre waiting is because either theyre trying to massage their cap as much as they can before committing, or ownership has told Verbeek to not touch anything because he's about to get fired. Either way, their only options are to match or start over.

He only moved 2 of those picks. How is this even remotely comparable to what Anaheim could do?

[Pierre McGuire]

Leo is going to be a dominant center..90-100pt player and last time I checked…big dominant goal scoring centers are hard to come by. He’s only 21, won’t be 22 until December. He’s progressing exactly like he was supposed to. Wouldn’t be shocked to see him hit 90pts this season.
I think some users in this thread haven’t seen Leo play and are solely looking at it from the $$$ aspect with the Blues locking up players at $8mil.
We can only lock players up at 8mil for so long, actually probably won’t be able to lock any more of them up at that price. Snuggerud is likely going to become the highest paid player in Blues history so you better get used to the 12-$16 mil player because it’s coming.

[Hockey Pete]

Y'all act like 4 lottery tickets are worth more than a franchise center. 18M is an overpay, and 5 yrs is a bitter pill to swallow, but on the plus side after those 5 yrs he may not even be due much of a raise.

As for the "take the picks and see if you can trade them" route, Army had 4 picks to dangle in THIS draft (more valuable than future picks), and the best he could come up with is Mason McTavish and 2 prospects. You're not flipping PHI's four first rounders for someone of comparable value, period.

The only reason theyre waiting is because either theyre trying to massage their cap as much as they can before committing, or ownership has told Verbeek to not touch anything because he's about to get fired. Either way, their only options are to match or start over.

I am 100% in the camp of matching. Yes, it’s an overpayment today but in a couple of years it won’t be. And who the heck knows what those 4 draft picks end up being.

Not to mention, the message this sends your fan base. Ducks are finally relevant again. Can’t tear it down again now.

The only thing that REALLY gives me pause about matching is that they're probably waiving goodbye to Gauthier and any help on Defense (which they sorely need). Tough spot for sure.