Another pretty good start for Doyle

[Cardinals1964]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

as a reliever, sure...later this year. But why would you do that to your #5 overall pick in his first season as a Pro?

Plus what I know about C. Bloom he isn't one to rush quality starting pitchers to MLB.

He wants them to be totally ready to start, fully prepared and be successfully as they can be once they're up here.

From what I see from a lot of media folks that cover the team… they’re dumb AF. They understand nothing about development and are hyper prone to hyperbole. They don’t react… rather, they overreact to everything.

I don’t mind them challenging him at AA. Personally I would’ve started him a level down but it’s important to understand that their development guys aren’t scouting results. How he performs this year isn’t all that important to achieving the end goal.

Idiot fans want him up pronto lest he be labeled a bust.

AOF, I don't care about his results. I'm watching his pitches. And I believe his only comfortable secondary pitch is his curve. And it's not a swing and miss pitch yet...but it's okay enough to keep the batters honest, and runs in well enough to RH batters to get the weak contact out.

I agree with the level lower.

and I don't mind being an idiot, but I've never backed down from offering my amateurish opinion either. It gets me in trouble...yes. But I do learn a lot. And you've taught me several things over the years

That jerky motion is concerning.

[Cardinals1964]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

He is behind on his secondary offerings, which is why, as a Tennessee grad, I didn’t want to see us draft him. But I don’t think it will take 3-4 years for him to get here. I think 2 as long as he progresses. He does pitch high octane, up in the zone a lot, and uses a lot of his body to generate that MPH. If he can improve the secondaries, he would be here end of 2027. But I always thought, he was going to be a reliever. Not sure why they took him at #5 to be honest.

panic from a team that didn't want to draft a High School SS. And probably ego where they believe they can develop the High K% pitchers into an MLB starter. I'm not against that philosophy, per se. But I'm not fan of starting him in AA so naked. His contemporary/equal/rival, Kade Anderson (3rd overall pick, LSU) is ready for AAA. He's got a 0.39 ERA with the Travelers (Seattle AA) in 5 starts.

Nice. Meanwhile the guy I really wanted and drafted just before Doyle has a .910 OPS at A ball - Ethan Holliday.

What might have been if the draft order was just slightly different…. And this year we drew really poorly so a lot of top talent will go ahead of our selection.

And plenty of players that are drafted after us will perform better. Happens all the time.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

I saw some encouraging stats on Twitter the other day.

Doyle’s stats through his first 49 batters faced at AA: 11.17 ERA, 18.4 K%, 12.2 BB%, 16 hits.

His stats through the last 24 batters faced: 1.42 ERA, 37.5 K%, 4.2 BB%, 4 hits.

They challenged him pretty good by sending him to AA this season. Hopefully this is a sign that he has adjusted.

Last 49 batters faced:
2.38, 39.3 K%, 2.3 BB%, 9 hits.

Also, I saw a tweet from a Baseball America guy, Geoff Pontes, who said that he got tipped that Doyle altered the grip on his primary breaking ball (not sure what that is) before his last start, and it looks way better. That's development, right?

His stat line from his last start:
5 IP, 5 hits, 2 ER, 0 BB, 8 K

[hugeCardfan]

pitch count?

pulled at 75 after 1st batter/out in the 5th. If he can maintain the 75 on a consistent basis, that would be good thing....so far he's been pulled early depending on how much he's been torched in the 1st or 2nd inning.

Need the consistent long outings...or long for him in his early pro developement....75 pitches

Realistically duce, how close is he to St. Louis?

Could he be ready for a September call up or do you think 2027 is more likely?

How close? After one really good start? 2 years at the best...that's without one hiccup in a start, one hiccup with an injury, one hiccup with the grip of the baseball and he loses feeling and progress in his secondary pitches. We're not dealing with a "Switch" that needs to be flipped like in Hitting. This guy is so far behind with his secondary pitches it's going to take a minimum of 2 Perfect Scenario years to be a starter in the bigs. I want the guy in a Pitching Lab....PRONTO. Pitching in AA, is like him being 15yo, and the opponents are perennial All-Stars with 8 figure contracts....that's for him....it's neato experience, but it's not doing him much good.

2 years...maybe 3 or 4 if you want effective.

2 years if the pitching lab scenario is 1) utilized and 2) works

I can't guarantee any of that, so I'll go with 3-4 years (which includes this one)....

Now, if we're talking as a reliever...that's a different story.

Thx, good take

Guys here on 101.1 were talking last week like he'd be up here later this year.

as a reliever, sure...later this year. But why would you do that to your #5 overall pick in his first season as a Pro?

Plus what I know about C. Bloom he isn't one to rush quality starting pitchers to MLB.

He wants them to be totally ready to start, fully prepared and be successfully as they can be once they're up here.

From what I see from a lot of media folks that cover the team… they’re dumb AF. They understand nothing about development and are hyper prone to hyperbole. They don’t react… rather, they overreact to everything.

I don’t mind them challenging him at AA. Personally I would’ve started him a level down but it’s important to understand that their development guys aren’t scouting results. How he performs this year isn’t all that important to achieving the end goal.

Idiot fans want him up pronto lest he be labeled a bust.

AOF, I don't care about his results. I'm watching his pitches. And I believe his only comfortable secondary pitch is his curve. And it's not a swing and miss pitch yet...but it's okay enough to keep the batters honest, and runs in well enough to RH batters to get the weak contact out.

I agree with the level lower.

and I don't mind being an idiot, but I've never backed down from offering my amateurish opinion either. It gets me in trouble...yes. But I do learn a lot. And you've taught me several things over the years

Well you aren’t an. Idiot. Far from it.

Kyle Reis’ analyses early spring was that his only secondary pitch ready was the splitter and that he had decent command of it. He also said that Doyle didn’t really have a curve. He also insisted that Doyle needed a lot of work on sweeper, slider and cutter; to actually call them that. So, if Doyle is comfortable with a curve at this point, sounds like he’s come a long way.

What other secondaries is he trying to throw? Do you think he should be pitching at AA or in a lab learning to throw a slider and a curve? How about a change up?

If the goal is to make Doyle a starter, I doubt ‘27 is in the cards.