Bernie on Marmol: he's not stupid, you are

[bccardsfan]

"It's not the losing as much as it is how they lose and how the demeanor of the players cavalier attitude of acceptance that should be the concern."

Thanks to 11WS for common sense. Gorman, Herrera, Burleson, etc lack of game awareness when running the bases. Burleson and Gorman lack of game awareness on defense. Then of course the lack of game strategy - everyday.

Playoffs FUBAR is reality on Marmots lack of MLB competence. Teacher of young players - of course the players will like you if you do not get after them after a bad play - DUH!!

Marmot brings zip and nada to Cardinal baseball.

I don't like to see the laughing in the dugout when they are losing. Sure a smile now and then, but we have seen tons of shots of players and Marmol joking around during losing games. We are talking about staying focused for 2-3 hours. How hard is that? It is not a country club. There have been far too many fundamental errors. On the bases, in the field, no overall team two strike approach, whatever. That is a culture created by the manager and I have not seen a good one from Marmol. If he is so great at player development, then why is it such a loose ship on fundamental baseball? Those are my concerns with Marmol, and I hope he improves because he is here for at least this season.

[Basil Shabazz]

Bernie’s opinion on Marmol is upbeat and positive largely because Oli gives Bernie the access and time he wants. That access helps Bernie’s content and clicks. If Marmol weren’t as accessible, I think the tone would be very different. It really is that simple.

What’s interesting is that Bernie rarely brings up culture when discussing Marmol. He hasn’t addressed the handling of the Contreras and O’Neill situations. He doesn’t talk about the perception of acceptable losing when the manager, coaches, and players are laughing and joking in the dugout while getting blown out. Fair or not, perception matters.

As I’ve said countless times: culture matters. One of a manager’s biggest responsibilities is to establish and reinforce a winning culture. That includes accountability, standards, and urgency. In my opinion, Marmol has struggled to do that. At times, he seems more focused on being one of the guys than setting the tone.

The job in St. Louis isn’t just about managing lineups and bullpen decisions — it’s about leading a clubhouse with championship expectations. Media members may continue to praise him, especially when they’re given strong access and communication. But access and leadership aren’t the same thing — and only one of those builds a winning culture.

[Clubmaker2]

Early in the 2025 season NA said something like.........this year is different, we show up feeling like we have a good chance to win the game verse last year we would show up just expecting whatever was going to happen to us was going to happen.

So Marmol got to manage a totally not looking to win clubhouse in 2024 lol and accepted it and didnt change it etc... so ok, if winning and a winning culture is not a concern in evaluating a manager leading an organization

[82birds]

Oli is carrying the stench of the downward spiral this team has endured under his tutelage. If he got fired from the Cardinals today, how many MLB teams are beating down his door and competing for his services? I think we know the answer is zero. So why would the Cardinals want him?

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with a body odor ridden valet left a stench in Jerry's car that was unshakable.

You can add to the fact that he's extremely unpopular with the fans that you're trying to lure back to the ballpark.

Dude's gotta go

no doubt in my mind that Oli is not the guy to get rid of the stench.
but the stench belongs to Mozeliak.

[Goldfan]

Early in the 2025 season NA said something like.........this year is different, we show up feeling like we have a good chance to win the game verse last year we would show up just expecting whatever was going to happen to us was going to happen.

So Marmol got to manage a totally not looking to win clubhouse in 2024 lol and accepted it and didnt change it etc... so ok, if winning and a winning culture is not a concern in evaluating a manager leading an organization

His contracted was extended…….SO HE WOULDN’T FEEL PRESSURE TO WIN!!!!

[Adam2]

Early in the 2025 season NA said something like.........this year is different, we show up feeling like we have a good chance to win the game verse last year we would show up just expecting whatever was going to happen to us was going to happen.

So Marmol got to manage a totally not looking to win clubhouse in 2024 lol and accepted it and didnt change it etc... so ok, if winning and a winning culture is not a concern in evaluating a manager leading an organization

His contracted was extended…….SO HE WOULDN’T FEEL PRESSURE TO WIN!!!!

His contracted?

[Ozziesfan41]

So he knows how to deal with young players? The players love to play for him?

When is the team no longer considered “young”?

How does that create a winning atmosphere? How does that build a team that knows how to play together?

What about his in-game management? His (mis)-handling of the pitching staff?

What is his overall grade? I’d say, a C at best

How exactly does he mis-handle the pitching staff? This is just one of those narratives people run with backed up by absolutely nothing.

The Cards had the 9th best bullpen ERA in MLB last season. Do you think we had the 9th most talented bullpen? We traded away our closer and setup man at the deadline and still had the 9th best bullpen ERA.

Yes it was. Even after the deadline they still had svanson romero obrien and lehay thats paint by numbers with a lead to victory even oli couldnt screw up. Its easy to be “good” at managing the bullpen when you have multiple lock down relievers to go to when you have the lead

[cardinalsfever44]

So he knows how to deal with young players? The players love to play for him?

When is the team no longer considered “young”?

How does that create a winning atmosphere? How does that build a team that knows how to play together?

What about his in-game management? His (mis)-handling of the pitching staff?

What is his overall grade? I’d say, a C at best

How exactly does he mis-handle the pitching staff? This is just one of those narratives people run with backed up by absolutely nothing.

The Cards had the 9th best bullpen ERA in MLB last season. Do you think we had the 9th most talented bullpen? We traded away our closer and setup man at the deadline and still had the 9th best bullpen ERA.

Yes it was. Even after the deadline they still had svanson romero obrien and lehay thats paint by numbers with a lead to victory even oli couldnt screw up. Its easy to be “good” at managing the bullpen when you have multiple lock down relievers to go to when you have the lead

Yeah, because all of those guys were known as lock down relievers prior to last year.

You can dig on Oli for many things, but bullpen management isn't one of them.

[Ozziesfan41]

So he knows how to deal with young players? The players love to play for him?

When is the team no longer considered “young”?

How does that create a winning atmosphere? How does that build a team that knows how to play together?

What about his in-game management? His (mis)-handling of the pitching staff?

What is his overall grade? I’d say, a C at best

How exactly does he mis-handle the pitching staff? This is just one of those narratives people run with backed up by absolutely nothing.

The Cards had the 9th best bullpen ERA in MLB last season. Do you think we had the 9th most talented bullpen? We traded away our closer and setup man at the deadline and still had the 9th best bullpen ERA.

Yes it was. Even after the deadline they still had svanson romero obrien and lehay thats paint by numbers with a lead to victory even oli couldnt screw up. Its easy to be “good” at managing the bullpen when you have multiple lock down relievers to go to when you have the lead

Yeah, because all of those guys were known as lock down relievers prior to last year.

You can dig on Oli for many things, but bullpen management isn't one of them.

I don’t dig on him about the bullpen I’ve repeatedly said he’s a fine paint by numbers manager. When you give him a great bullpen with multiple lock down relievers who he can plug and play in any situation he’s fine. The problem is when it doesn’t go the paint by numbers way he just stands in the dugout and stares stupidly as the closer who is injured implodes in the post season. As long as he doesn’t have to do much managing in a game he’s fine

[ForumPolice]

Oli is carrying the stench of the downward spiral this team has endured under his tutelage. If he got fired from the Cardinals today, how many MLB teams are beating down his door and competing for his services? I think we know the answer is zero. So why would the Cardinals want him?

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with a body odor ridden valet left a stench in Jerry's car that was unshakable.

You can add to the fact that he's extremely unpopular with the fans that you're trying to lure back to the ballpark.

Dude's gotta go

no doubt in my mind that Oli is not the guy to get rid of the stench.
but the stench belongs to Mozeliak.

Yes. Thanks for pointing that out. Mo also chose Oli. Oli has the Mo taint.

[Clubmaker2]

Early in the 2025 season NA said something like.........this year is different, we show up feeling like we have a good chance to win the game verse last year we would show up just expecting whatever was going to happen to us was going to happen.

So Marmol got to manage a totally not looking to win clubhouse in 2024 lol and accepted it and didnt change it etc... so ok, if winning and a winning culture is not a concern in evaluating a manager leading an organization

His contracted was extended…….SO HE WOULDN’T FEEL PRESSURE TO WIN!!!!

Then there is Jordan Walker not doing the relief pitcher study in depth as supposed to be done on first day of a series, yet Oli leaves this as somehow optional instead of telling walker its mandatory ....

[renostl]

Here's what we know about Bloom:

1. He's been here a while, more than 2 years in fact.
2. He makes changes: Wanted to trade FOUR vets this offseason. HE DID IT.
3. He knows more about Oli, his performance and how players feel about him than CTers do.

The three things above are indisputable facts.


Now...I seriously doubt CB would retain Oli if Oli were as bad as CTers think he is.

Does that mean I love Oli? No. Does that mean I think CB loves Oli? No.

But I do think the fact that OM is still here means that CB obviously sees positives in Oli's managerial performance that are an asset to where the team is now. And no, it has nothing to do with the possible lockout...

Well stated.

Just to add.

4. He seen how OM carried out the direction by MO. Bloom may or may not agree with
that direction and still like what he sees in that.

5. Do we know what Bloom wants in his mgr?

One thing Oli has to clean up is to end the calling out of players in the media.
He would be in the average range by that one very simple change.

[Dicktar2023]

BM has conveniently condensed years of Marmol apologetics into one video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM5Sx4RHxGQ

My favorite argument the classic: well, Marmol has had bad rosters. What's he supposed to do?

This argument is circular. Those rosters are only so awful because we know how it ended up. In spring 2023, it was a forgone conclusion that a team with Walker, Gorman, Nootbar, O'Neill, Flaherty, Hudson, etc. was destined to finish 10 games under .500? We only know that roster stunk because ALL of those guys underperformed--and continued to underperform in subsequent years. Did Marmol--who apparently has "coaching young players in his DNA"-- have no say (directly or indirectly) in whether half his team was prepared to play? Either way you answer that question, doesn't it seem like a problem?

Same thing when BM gets snarky about the toxic club culture, that the veterans (Arenado and PG, one assumes) wouldn't share a lunch table with the young guys (Walker, one assumes). Again, is Marmol just an innocent bystander here? just watching helplessly from the sidelines? If so, that seems not great.

But it's all good, because Bloom has deployed an army of space-age robots to take over the coaching duties. In this sense, it's never mattered less who is writing down the names on the lineup card. Go team!

I'm not following your statement that

Bloom has deployed an army of space-age robots to take over the coaching duties

From my perspective, Mo was the one leaning heavily on digital analytics, whereas Bloom has hired an army of PEOPLE to develop and assess the talent that we draft, trade for and sign.

You haven't heard about all the new technology? They literally won't shut up about it.

[Dicktar2023]

Early in the 2025 season NA said something like.........this year is different, we show up feeling like we have a good chance to win the game verse last year we would show up just expecting whatever was going to happen to us was going to happen.

So Marmol got to manage a totally not looking to win clubhouse in 2024 lol and accepted it and didnt change it etc... so ok, if winning and a winning culture is not a concern in evaluating a manager leading an organization

His contracted was extended…….SO HE WOULDN’T FEEL PRESSURE TO WIN!!!!

Then there is Jordan Walker not doing the relief pitcher study in depth as supposed to be done on first day of a series, yet Oli leaves this as somehow optional instead of telling walker its mandatory ....

Exactly. A huge pillar of Marmol Apologetics is "well, he has good advice, but these stubborn players don't listen."

But getting players to listen...Is. His. Job.

He's a coach, not a reference librarian. He doesn't just need to be able to have knowledge, he needs to be able to communicate that knowledge in a way that people take in. Not every coach is going to be great at that aspect of the job. But then you should not be the manager of a MLB team.

[woofy25]

Why fire him and pay 2 guys to manage?

Another question: Why keep a manager who is detrimental to the team when you are trying to build a winning culture?

Answer: Bloom's actions prove that OM is obviously not bad for the team and culture. Maybe he's not the end game, but by Bloom's actions he's not hurting...

Who are the guys so much better than Oli that will take on this rebuild? It’s a catch 22. No great manager is taking the job with the roster that currently exists.

The manager is not the problem that needs fixing today.

[Dicktar2023]

Why fire him and pay 2 guys to manage?

Another question: Why keep a manager who is detrimental to the team when you are trying to build a winning culture?

Answer: Bloom's actions prove that OM is obviously not bad for the team and culture. Maybe he's not the end game, but by Bloom's actions he's not hurting...

Who are the guys so much better than Oli that will take on this rebuild? It’s a catch 22. No great manager is taking the job with the roster that currently exists.

The manager is not the problem that needs fixing today.

Ok, so he's just an interim manager. But then why are we talking about re-signing him before the season even begins?