Bernie on Marmol: he's not stupid, you are

[Dicktar2023]

BM has conveniently condensed years of Marmol apologetics into one video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM5Sx4RHxGQ

My favorite argument the classic: well, Marmol has had bad rosters. What's he supposed to do?

This argument is circular. Those rosters are only so awful because we know how it ended up. In spring 2023, it was a forgone conclusion that a team with Walker, Gorman, Nootbar, O'Neill, Flaherty, Hudson, etc. was destined to finish 10 games under .500? We only know that roster stunk because ALL of those guys underperformed--and continued to underperform in subsequent years. Did Marmol--who apparently has "coaching young players in his DNA"-- have no say (directly or indirectly) in whether half his team was prepared to play? Either way you answer that question, doesn't it seem like a problem?

Same thing when BM gets snarky about the toxic club culture, that the veterans (Arenado and PG, one assumes) wouldn't share a lunch table with the young guys (Walker, one assumes). Again, is Marmol just an innocent bystander here? just watching helplessly from the sidelines? If so, that seems not great.

But it's all good, because Bloom has deployed an army of space-age robots to take over the coaching duties. In this sense, it's never mattered less who is writing down the names on the lineup card. Go team!

[icon]

Bernie loves access "journalism." He lost his fastball long ago.

[BrockFloodMaris]

BM has conveniently condensed years of Marmol apologetics into one video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM5Sx4RHxGQ

My favorite argument the classic: well, Marmol has had bad rosters. What's he supposed to do?

This argument is circular. Those rosters are only so awful because we know how it ended up. In spring 2023, it was a forgone conclusion that a team with Walker, Gorman, Nootbar, O'Neill, Flaherty, Hudson, etc. was destined to finish 10 games under .500? We only know that roster stunk because ALL of those guys underperformed--and continued to underperform in subsequent years. Did Marmol--who apparently has "coaching young players in his DNA"-- have no say (directly or indirectly) in whether half his team was prepared to play? Either way you answer that question, doesn't it seem like a problem?

Same thing when BM gets snarky about the toxic club culture, that the veterans (Arenado and PG, one assumes) wouldn't share a lunch table with the young guys (Walker, one assumes). Again, is Marmol just an innocent bystander here? just watching helplessly from the sidelines? If so, that seems not great.

But it's all good, because Bloom has deployed an army of space-age robots to take over the coaching duties. In this sense, it's never mattered less who is writing down the names on the lineup card. Go team!

I'm not following your statement that

Bloom has deployed an army of space-age robots to take over the coaching duties

From my perspective, Mo was the one leaning heavily on digital analytics, whereas Bloom has hired an army of PEOPLE to develop and assess the talent that we draft, trade for and sign.

[CardMUfan]

When Bernie starts his rant for Ollie, I switch my youtube to another blog

[ecleme22]

Here's what we know about Bloom:

1. He's been here a while, more than 2 years in fact.
2. He makes changes: Wanted to trade FOUR vets this offseason. HE DID IT.
3. He knows more about Oli, his performance and how players feel about him than CTers do.

The three things above are indisputable facts.


Now...I seriously doubt CB would retain Oli if Oli were as bad as CTers think he is.

Does that mean I love Oli? No. Does that mean I think CB loves Oli? No.

But I do think the fact that OM is still here means that CB obviously sees positives in Oli's managerial performance that are an asset to where the team is now. And no, it has nothing to do with the possible lockout...

[rage-STL]

Oli is signed through this season to manage the team. Why fire him and pay 2 guys to manage? I think Oli moves on to another role within the organization after this year and Yadi is signed to take the reins in ‘27 and beyond. Guess we’ll see.

I agree with you and Bernie that regardless of the players on the roster, I’d like to see this team play better baseball. They’ve all reached the professional level, it’s on the coaching staff to hold them to certain standards. Smart, aggressive, hard nosed and fundamentally sound baseball. That alone goes a long way to put butts in seats in this town.

[ecleme22]

Why fire him and pay 2 guys to manage?

Another question: Why keep a manager who is detrimental to the team when you are trying to build a winning culture?

Answer: Bloom's actions prove that OM is obviously not bad for the team and culture. Maybe he's not the end game, but by Bloom's actions he's not hurting...

[Banner29]

Oli is signed through this season to manage the team. Why fire him and pay 2 guys to manage? I think Oli moves on to another role within the organization after this year and Yadi is signed to take the reins in ‘27 and beyond. Guess we’ll see.

I agree with you and Bernie that regardless of the players on the roster, I’d like to see this team play better baseball. They’ve all reached the professional level, it’s on the coaching staff to hold them to certain standards. Smart, aggressive, hard nosed and fundamentally sound baseball. That alone goes a long way to put butts in seats in this town.

I swear people will level 4 autism cling to thoughts around here no matter what. It’s like going into a special needs classroom and saying “poo poo pee pee” and then watching the chaos unfold as everyone desperately tries to get the little guys to stop repeating it with absolutely zero success

Since when did it become such an unheard of thing for teams in ANY major sport to continue paying fired coaches/paying multiple coaches? The Raiders are paying like 6 right now. It’s not an unheard of thing nor is it a major financial burden.

[alw80]

Oli is signed through this season to manage the team. Why fire him and pay 2 guys to manage? I think Oli moves on to another role within the organization after this year and Yadi is signed to take the reins in ‘27 and beyond. Guess we’ll see.

I agree with you and Bernie that regardless of the players on the roster, I’d like to see this team play better baseball. They’ve all reached the professional level, it’s on the coaching staff to hold them to certain standards. Smart, aggressive, hard nosed and fundamentally sound baseball. That alone goes a long way to put butts in seats in this town.

I swear people will level 4 autism cling to thoughts around here no matter what. It’s like going into a special needs classroom and saying “poo poo pee pee” and then watching the chaos unfold as everyone desperately tries to get the little guys to stop repeating it with absolutely zero success

Since when did it become such an unheard of thing for teams in ANY major sport to continue paying fired coaches/paying multiple coaches? The Raiders are paying like 6 right now. It’s not an unheard of thing nor is it a major financial burden.

The Raiders are definitely a franchise you want to model other franchises around.

[ForumPolice]

Oli is carrying the stench of the downward spiral this team has endured under his tutelage. If he got fired from the Cardinals today, how many MLB teams are beating down his door and competing for his services? I think we know the answer is zero. So why would the Cardinals want him?

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with a body odor ridden valet left a stench in Jerry's car that was unshakable.

You can add to the fact that he's extremely unpopular with the fans that you're trying to lure back to the ballpark.

Dude's gotta go

[3dender]

Here's what we know about Bloom:

1. He's been here a while, more than 2 years in fact.
2. He makes changes: Wanted to trade FOUR vets this offseason. HE DID IT.
3. He knows more about Oli, his performance and how players feel about him than CTers do.

The three things above are indisputable facts.


Now...I seriously doubt CB would retain Oli if Oli were as bad as CTers think he is.

Does that mean I love Oli? No. Does that mean I think CB loves Oli? No.

But I do think the fact that OM is still here means that CB obviously sees positives in Oli's managerial performance that are an asset to where the team is now. And no, it has nothing to do with the possible lockout...

Good post.

[3dender]

Oli is carrying the stench of the downward spiral this team has endured under his tutelage. If he got fired from the Cardinals today, how many MLB teams are beating down his door and competing for his services? I think we know the answer is zero. So why would the Cardinals want him?

It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with a body odor ridden valet left a stench in Jerry's car that was unshakable.

You can add to the fact that he's extremely unpopular with the fans that you're trying to lure back to the ballpark.

Dude's gotta go

I suspect you'd be surprised at how quickly he got another shot at managing.

I was very critical of Marmol for how he handled Contreras, Carlson, O'Neill and Walker. And I still blame him for how bad 2023 went, and for how he unnecessarily still calls out players publicly (most recently with Walker last season).

But if you're looking at it rationally he has made significant improvements over the last 2 seasons, most of the players seem to really like him and his bullpen management (one of the manager's top 3 most important duties) is objectively good, if not great.

So at this point yeah I think the Cards could do a lot worse than him as manager.

[The Nard]

So he knows how to deal with young players? The players love to play for him?

When is the team no longer considered “young”?

How does that create a winning atmosphere? How does that build a team that knows how to play together?

What about his in-game management? His (mis)-handling of the pitching staff?

What is his overall grade? I’d say, a C at best

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Here's what we know about Bloom:

1. He's been here a while, more than 2 years in fact.
2. He makes changes: Wanted to trade FOUR vets this offseason. HE DID IT.
3. He knows more about Oli, his performance and how players feel about him than CTers do.

The three things above are indisputable facts.


Now...I seriously doubt CB would retain Oli if Oli were as bad as CTers think he is.

Does that mean I love Oli? No. Does that mean I think CB loves Oli? No.

But I do think the fact that OM is still here means that CB obviously sees positives in Oli's managerial performance that are an asset to where the team is now. And no, it has nothing to do with the possible lockout...

Yea, I agree. People need to chill out over this. I mean, we're talking about a group of people who paid to fly a banner over spring training that said fire LaRussa, the HOF manager who won two championships here, so I don't expect a rational discussion any time soon.

Bloom is not an idiot. He's been in professional baseball for two decades at this point. He has been here on this team for two years. He has millions of dollars that he can use to evaluate things. If he wants this year to work with Oli, then what is the big deal? And if he decides to extend Oli, then maybe he knows what he is doing.

And Oli himself has lasted a long time in the game with two different POBOs. Maybe he is doing something right. I can't say I'm his biggest fan, but I think he's shown a lot of improvement over the years, even if I disagree with some of the ways he does from time to time. But lots of managers have struggled in their first years in this league. Players all seem to really like him too.

One last thing. They've brought in Yadier Molina, beloved franchise legend, future HOFer, current managerial candidate for many MLB teams, possible replacement for Oli, and Oli doesnt let it bother him. He seems to be welcoming it. That is admirable. With the egos in this league, it's easy to imagine a manager doing everything he can to avoid a situation like that.

[45s]

I don't care about Marmol one way or the other..

but the idea that any other manager would get more out of this collection of stiffs is fantasy

[cardinalsfever44]

So he knows how to deal with young players? The players love to play for him?

When is the team no longer considered “young”?

How does that create a winning atmosphere? How does that build a team that knows how to play together?

What about his in-game management? His (mis)-handling of the pitching staff?

What is his overall grade? I’d say, a C at best

How exactly does he mis-handle the pitching staff? This is just one of those narratives people run with backed up by absolutely nothing.

The Cards had the 9th best bullpen ERA in MLB last season. Do you think we had the 9th most talented bullpen? We traded away our closer and setup man at the deadline and still had the 9th best bullpen ERA.