2011 MLB payroll

[Goldfan]

N.Y. Yankees $201,689,030
Philadelphia Phillies $172,976,381
Boston Red Sox $161,407,476
L.A. Angels $138,998,524
Chicago White Sox $129,285,539
Chicago Cubs $125,480,664
N.Y. Mets $120,147,310
San Francisco Giants $118,216,333
Minnesota Twins $112,737,000
Detroit Tigers $105,705,232
St. Louis Cardinals $105,433,572

Can someone explain how the Cards won the WS with the Yankees doubling their payroll that season?? And Philly 70% higher….and Red Sox 60% higher???

Can someone explain to me why it is 2026 and we have a lower payroll than 2011?

Sure

In today's dollars C4L that would equate to a 2026 payroll of approx. $151,000,000+.

And also just because hollidays 16 million dollar salary would be worth 23 million or so today with the way baseball salaries have skyrocketed he would be making way more than 23 million he would be a 35 million dollar a year player At least carp would be a 40 million dollar pitcher

No doubt

And Albert would soon be a $75M player given 2011 was his walk season!

For sure dodgers would probably sign him 4 years 400 million

No doubt

It's insane to think what Albert would get after 2011 in todays market given he'd bring a:

Career
.326 .417 .614 1.031 slash
+ 469 HR's
+1397 RBI's
+ 3 MVP's
+ 2 Gold Glove
+ 2 WS Rings to the free agency table!

$1,000,000,000 for 10 years

Come on fellas…..juiced balls and slow throwing pitchers back in the prehistoric days…..no way AP throws up those numbers
Now keep in mind I’m just parroting the same [nonsense] I get all the time when a discussion comes up about why today’s batters suck…..its the GREAT PITCHING

Well I guess if Aaron judge hits the way he does he would hit 100 home runs back in Albert pujols day and ohtani would hit 90 home runs lol and Raleigh would have hit at least 80 then huh? Why do you think pujols wouldn’t be an elite hitter today?

Oz, I have no doubt that AP would be an elite hitter today….as would most of the elite hitters from that era. The talent pool of elite hitters is much less in 2026 than 20-25 yrs ago and it has nothing to do with hard throwing pitchers and spin rates.

[BleedingBleu]

They didn’t have 12-15 year contracts back then

[Voldemort]

N.Y. Yankees $201,689,030
Philadelphia Phillies $172,976,381
Boston Red Sox $161,407,476
L.A. Angels $138,998,524
Chicago White Sox $129,285,539
Chicago Cubs $125,480,664
N.Y. Mets $120,147,310
San Francisco Giants $118,216,333
Minnesota Twins $112,737,000
Detroit Tigers $105,705,232
St. Louis Cardinals $105,433,572

Can someone explain how the Cards won the WS with the Yankees doubling their payroll that season?? And Philly 70% higher….and Red Sox 60% higher???

How many WS Championships have the Cardinals had since those salary differentials?

I have and will argue that its much less to do with salary differentials than it is organizational incompetence since the last WS win

I don't disagree with some of your points, but would mention that the Cardinals were active attempting to acquire quality FAs and had a mix of minor league players coming of age to make them competitive. Then, the wheels fell off the bus. They stopped trying to acquire any quality FAs, and the minor leaguers were not ready. IMO, the Cardinals will reap what they sow. I know many fans who are upset, angry, or disillusioned, and they will not attend games.

[ScotchMIrish]

2006 and 2011 are examples of why you try to make the playoffs and then go on a run. People who said we shouldn't have added in July when we were 5 games over .500 I disagree with. First you make the playoffs. Then you try to win it all.

lol to compare the 2006 and 2011 teams to last years team is crazy

Because they didn't dump payroll in 2006 and 2011. I'll bet you didn't say that at the time because nobody had us winning the WS.

The St. Louis Cardinals were long shots to win the 2006 World Series, considered underdogs with odds potentially around 100-to-1 (100/1) or higher (some sources mention 999/1 during the season) before their improbable run, as they only won 83 regular season games, the fewest ever for a champion, and had a losing record after the All-Star break, but still clinched the title over the heavily favored Detroit Tigers.

[renostl]

N.Y. Yankees $201,689,030
Philadelphia Phillies $172,976,381
Boston Red Sox $161,407,476
L.A. Angels $138,998,524
Chicago White Sox $129,285,539
Chicago Cubs $125,480,664
N.Y. Mets $120,147,310
San Francisco Giants $118,216,333
Minnesota Twins $112,737,000
Detroit Tigers $105,705,232
St. Louis Cardinals $105,433,572

Can someone explain how the Cards won the WS with the Yankees doubling their payroll that season?? And Philly 70% higher….and Red Sox 60% higher???

Can someone explain to me why it is 2026 and we have a lower payroll than 2011?

Sure

In today's dollars C4L that would equate to a 2026 payroll of approx. $151,000,000+.

And also just because hollidays 16 million dollar salary would be worth 23 million or so today with the way baseball salaries have skyrocketed he would be making way more than 23 million he would be a 35 million dollar a year player At least carp would be a 40 million dollar pitcher

No doubt

And Albert would soon be a $75M player given 2011 was his walk season!

For sure dodgers would probably sign him 4 years 400 million

No doubt

It's insane to think what Albert would get after 2011 in todays market given he'd bring a:

Career
.326 .417 .614 1.031 slash
+ 469 HR's
+1397 RBI's
+ 3 MVP's
+ 2 Gold Glove
+ 2 WS Rings to the free agency table!

$1,000,000,000 for 10 years

Come on fellas…..juiced balls and slow throwing pitchers back in the prehistoric days…..no way AP throws up those numbers
Now keep in mind I’m just parroting the same [nonsense] I get all the time when a discussion comes up about why today’s batters suck…..its the GREAT PITCHING

Well I guess if Aaron judge hits the way he does he would hit 100 home runs back in Albert pujols day and ohtani would hit 90 home runs lol and Raleigh would have hit at least 80 then huh? Why do you think pujols wouldn’t be an elite hitter today?

Oz, I have no doubt that AP would be an elite hitter today….as would most of the elite hitters from that era. The talent pool of elite hitters is much less in 2026 than 20-25 yrs ago and it has nothing to do with hard throwing pitchers and spin rates.

The elite will perform in any era but would they perform at the same numbers?

Velocity matters. IF everything is exactly the same elite. Reaction time, swing speeds,
bat to ball skills, etc. When a ball goes 100 mph pitch recognition time is 0.10 sec to 0.18 sec
when a ball takes only .37 sec to travel to the plate. Give a ball 0.41-0.43 secs in a 90 mph
pitch adds 0.04 to 0.06 secs to the pitch recognition times. All minute milliseconds of time.
but is also about a 35% increase. How can that not have an impact?

[Goldfan]

N.Y. Yankees $201,689,030
Philadelphia Phillies $172,976,381
Boston Red Sox $161,407,476
L.A. Angels $138,998,524
Chicago White Sox $129,285,539
Chicago Cubs $125,480,664
N.Y. Mets $120,147,310
San Francisco Giants $118,216,333
Minnesota Twins $112,737,000
Detroit Tigers $105,705,232
St. Louis Cardinals $105,433,572

Can someone explain how the Cards won the WS with the Yankees doubling their payroll that season?? And Philly 70% higher….and Red Sox 60% higher???

Can someone explain to me why it is 2026 and we have a lower payroll than 2011?

Sure

In today's dollars C4L that would equate to a 2026 payroll of approx. $151,000,000+.

And also just because hollidays 16 million dollar salary would be worth 23 million or so today with the way baseball salaries have skyrocketed he would be making way more than 23 million he would be a 35 million dollar a year player At least carp would be a 40 million dollar pitcher

No doubt

And Albert would soon be a $75M player given 2011 was his walk season!

For sure dodgers would probably sign him 4 years 400 million

No doubt

It's insane to think what Albert would get after 2011 in todays market given he'd bring a:

Career
.326 .417 .614 1.031 slash
+ 469 HR's
+1397 RBI's
+ 3 MVP's
+ 2 Gold Glove
+ 2 WS Rings to the free agency table!

$1,000,000,000 for 10 years

Come on fellas…..juiced balls and slow throwing pitchers back in the prehistoric days…..no way AP throws up those numbers
Now keep in mind I’m just parroting the same [nonsense] I get all the time when a discussion comes up about why today’s batters suck…..its the GREAT PITCHING

Well I guess if Aaron judge hits the way he does he would hit 100 home runs back in Albert pujols day and ohtani would hit 90 home runs lol and Raleigh would have hit at least 80 then huh? Why do you think pujols wouldn’t be an elite hitter today?

Oz, I have no doubt that AP would be an elite hitter today….as would most of the elite hitters from that era. The talent pool of elite hitters is much less in 2026 than 20-25 yrs ago and it has nothing to do with hard throwing pitchers and spin rates.

The elite will perform in any era but would they perform at the same numbers?

Velocity matters. IF everything is exactly the same elite. Reaction time, swing speeds,
bat to ball skills, etc. When a ball goes 100 mph pitch recognition time is 0.10 sec to 0.18 sec
when a ball takes only .37 sec to travel to the plate. Give a ball 0.41-0.43 secs in a 90 mph
pitch adds 0.04 to 0.06 secs to the pitch recognition times. All minute milliseconds of time.
but is also about a 35% increase. How can that not have an impact?

Albert Pujols had excellent stats against Randy Johnson, hitting .452 with 5 home runs, 13 RBIs, a 1.208 slugging, and a 1.708 OPS in 26 plate appearances, including a crucial postseason home run in 2001, showcasing his dominance against "The Big Unit" despite Johnson's legendary pitching

[renostl]

N.Y. Yankees $201,689,030
Philadelphia Phillies $172,976,381
Boston Red Sox $161,407,476
L.A. Angels $138,998,524
Chicago White Sox $129,285,539
Chicago Cubs $125,480,664
N.Y. Mets $120,147,310
San Francisco Giants $118,216,333
Minnesota Twins $112,737,000
Detroit Tigers $105,705,232
St. Louis Cardinals $105,433,572

Can someone explain how the Cards won the WS with the Yankees doubling their payroll that season?? And Philly 70% higher….and Red Sox 60% higher???

Can someone explain to me why it is 2026 and we have a lower payroll than 2011?

Sure

In today's dollars C4L that would equate to a 2026 payroll of approx. $151,000,000+.

And also just because hollidays 16 million dollar salary would be worth 23 million or so today with the way baseball salaries have skyrocketed he would be making way more than 23 million he would be a 35 million dollar a year player At least carp would be a 40 million dollar pitcher

No doubt

And Albert would soon be a $75M player given 2011 was his walk season!

For sure dodgers would probably sign him 4 years 400 million

No doubt

It's insane to think what Albert would get after 2011 in todays market given he'd bring a:

Career
.326 .417 .614 1.031 slash
+ 469 HR's
+1397 RBI's
+ 3 MVP's
+ 2 Gold Glove
+ 2 WS Rings to the free agency table!

$1,000,000,000 for 10 years

Come on fellas…..juiced balls and slow throwing pitchers back in the prehistoric days…..no way AP throws up those numbers
Now keep in mind I’m just parroting the same [nonsense] I get all the time when a discussion comes up about why today’s batters suck…..its the GREAT PITCHING

Well I guess if Aaron judge hits the way he does he would hit 100 home runs back in Albert pujols day and ohtani would hit 90 home runs lol and Raleigh would have hit at least 80 then huh? Why do you think pujols wouldn’t be an elite hitter today?

Oz, I have no doubt that AP would be an elite hitter today….as would most of the elite hitters from that era. The talent pool of elite hitters is much less in 2026 than 20-25 yrs ago and it has nothing to do with hard throwing pitchers and spin rates.

The elite will perform in any era but would they perform at the same numbers?

Velocity matters. IF everything is exactly the same elite. Reaction time, swing speeds,
bat to ball skills, etc. When a ball goes 100 mph pitch recognition time is 0.10 sec to 0.18 sec
when a ball takes only .37 sec to travel to the plate. Give a ball 0.41-0.43 secs in a 90 mph
pitch adds 0.04 to 0.06 secs to the pitch recognition times. All minute milliseconds of time.
but is also about a 35% increase. How can that not have an impact?

Albert Pujols had excellent stats against Randy Johnson, hitting .452 with 5 home runs, 13 RBIs, a 1.208 slugging, and a 1.708 OPS in 26 plate appearances, including a crucial postseason home run in 2001, showcasing his dominance against "The Big Unit" despite Johnson's legendary pitching

Certainly and not the debate since my quote was "elite will perform in any era"

Should we look up what AP did vs all pitchers with velocity which would better acknowledge the
proposition that velocity decreases pitch recognition times. How can that not have an effect on the normal
MLB player that doesn't possess AP's elite reaction times as measured by Washington University?

[Goldfan]

N.Y. Yankees $201,689,030
Philadelphia Phillies $172,976,381
Boston Red Sox $161,407,476
L.A. Angels $138,998,524
Chicago White Sox $129,285,539
Chicago Cubs $125,480,664
N.Y. Mets $120,147,310
San Francisco Giants $118,216,333
Minnesota Twins $112,737,000
Detroit Tigers $105,705,232
St. Louis Cardinals $105,433,572

Can someone explain how the Cards won the WS with the Yankees doubling their payroll that season?? And Philly 70% higher….and Red Sox 60% higher???

Can someone explain to me why it is 2026 and we have a lower payroll than 2011?

Sure

In today's dollars C4L that would equate to a 2026 payroll of approx. $151,000,000+.

And also just because hollidays 16 million dollar salary would be worth 23 million or so today with the way baseball salaries have skyrocketed he would be making way more than 23 million he would be a 35 million dollar a year player At least carp would be a 40 million dollar pitcher

No doubt

And Albert would soon be a $75M player given 2011 was his walk season!

For sure dodgers would probably sign him 4 years 400 million

No doubt

It's insane to think what Albert would get after 2011 in todays market given he'd bring a:

Career
.326 .417 .614 1.031 slash
+ 469 HR's
+1397 RBI's
+ 3 MVP's
+ 2 Gold Glove
+ 2 WS Rings to the free agency table!

$1,000,000,000 for 10 years

Come on fellas…..juiced balls and slow throwing pitchers back in the prehistoric days…..no way AP throws up those numbers
Now keep in mind I’m just parroting the same [nonsense] I get all the time when a discussion comes up about why today’s batters suck…..its the GREAT PITCHING

Well I guess if Aaron judge hits the way he does he would hit 100 home runs back in Albert pujols day and ohtani would hit 90 home runs lol and Raleigh would have hit at least 80 then huh? Why do you think pujols wouldn’t be an elite hitter today?

Oz, I have no doubt that AP would be an elite hitter today….as would most of the elite hitters from that era. The talent pool of elite hitters is much less in 2026 than 20-25 yrs ago and it has nothing to do with hard throwing pitchers and spin rates.

The elite will perform in any era but would they perform at the same numbers?

Velocity matters. IF everything is exactly the same elite. Reaction time, swing speeds,
bat to ball skills, etc. When a ball goes 100 mph pitch recognition time is 0.10 sec to 0.18 sec
when a ball takes only .37 sec to travel to the plate. Give a ball 0.41-0.43 secs in a 90 mph
pitch adds 0.04 to 0.06 secs to the pitch recognition times. All minute milliseconds of time.
but is also about a 35% increase. How can that not have an impact?

Albert Pujols had excellent stats against Randy Johnson, hitting .452 with 5 home runs, 13 RBIs, a 1.208 slugging, and a 1.708 OPS in 26 plate appearances, including a crucial postseason home run in 2001, showcasing his dominance against "The Big Unit" despite Johnson's legendary pitching

All these pitchers avg FB was mid to high 90’s
AP stats against
K. Wood .333, 1.062
Farnsworth .296, 1.107
AJ Burnett .304, 1.056
Josh Beckett .308, 1.115
Kershaw .359, .932

[Youboughtit]

N.Y. Yankees $201,689,030
Philadelphia Phillies $172,976,381
Boston Red Sox $161,407,476
L.A. Angels $138,998,524
Chicago White Sox $129,285,539
Chicago Cubs $125,480,664
N.Y. Mets $120,147,310
San Francisco Giants $118,216,333
Minnesota Twins $112,737,000
Detroit Tigers $105,705,232
St. Louis Cardinals $105,433,572

Can someone explain how the Cards won the WS with the Yankees doubling their payroll that season?? And Philly 70% higher….and Red Sox 60% higher???

3 home grown HOFers in their prime and a gift of Edmonds. Not to mention clutch role player performances. What I took away was the fact Cardinals had a top 11 payroll opening day and top 10 end of season. My question is why was that formula abandoned?

[renostl]

Can someone explain to me why it is 2026 and we have a lower payroll than 2011?

Sure

In today's dollars C4L that would equate to a 2026 payroll of approx. $151,000,000+.

And also just because hollidays 16 million dollar salary would be worth 23 million or so today with the way baseball salaries have skyrocketed he would be making way more than 23 million he would be a 35 million dollar a year player At least carp would be a 40 million dollar pitcher

No doubt

And Albert would soon be a $75M player given 2011 was his walk season!

For sure dodgers would probably sign him 4 years 400 million

No doubt

It's insane to think what Albert would get after 2011 in todays market given he'd bring a:

Career
.326 .417 .614 1.031 slash
+ 469 HR's
+1397 RBI's
+ 3 MVP's
+ 2 Gold Glove
+ 2 WS Rings to the free agency table!

$1,000,000,000 for 10 years

Come on fellas…..juiced balls and slow throwing pitchers back in the prehistoric days…..no way AP throws up those numbers
Now keep in mind I’m just parroting the same [nonsense] I get all the time when a discussion comes up about why today’s batters suck…..its the GREAT PITCHING

Well I guess if Aaron judge hits the way he does he would hit 100 home runs back in Albert pujols day and ohtani would hit 90 home runs lol and Raleigh would have hit at least 80 then huh? Why do you think pujols wouldn’t be an elite hitter today?

Oz, I have no doubt that AP would be an elite hitter today….as would most of the elite hitters from that era. The talent pool of elite hitters is much less in 2026 than 20-25 yrs ago and it has nothing to do with hard throwing pitchers and spin rates.

The elite will perform in any era but would they perform at the same numbers?

Velocity matters. IF everything is exactly the same elite. Reaction time, swing speeds,
bat to ball skills, etc. When a ball goes 100 mph pitch recognition time is 0.10 sec to 0.18 sec
when a ball takes only .37 sec to travel to the plate. Give a ball 0.41-0.43 secs in a 90 mph
pitch adds 0.04 to 0.06 secs to the pitch recognition times. All minute milliseconds of time.
but is also about a 35% increase. How can that not have an impact?

Albert Pujols had excellent stats against Randy Johnson, hitting .452 with 5 home runs, 13 RBIs, a 1.208 slugging, and a 1.708 OPS in 26 plate appearances, including a crucial postseason home run in 2001, showcasing his dominance against "The Big Unit" despite Johnson's legendary pitching

All these pitchers avg FB was mid to high 90’s
AP stats against
K. Wood .333, 1.062
Farnsworth .296, 1.107
AJ Burnett .304, 1.056
Josh Beckett .308, 1.115
Kershaw .359, .932

I believe that I have done a poor job of proposing the position. I apologize.

AP is elite with 3 things that matter most versus velocities. Reaction times
as measured at Washington University. His swing times as also measured and
also recognition times. IF velocities do indeed decrease his recognition times,
they almost have to, his other elite skills made up for those times.

Again,
The elite will perform in any era but would they perform at the same numbers?

Now there are HOF players that have some hitting skills that are considered elite also.
One such was just traded to AZ. His swing times are more than AP's, he still needs to recognize
the pitch and react in a now smaller window of time. His numbers come down. Do HOF hitters
who have 3000 hits all do so versus increased velocity.

My position says that they all do not.

You proposed that there aren't as many elite hitters. Maybe that is true but how do we
measure that when we use things like hits that were accomplished against less velocity giving
them more time to react?

Far more discussion than argument.

These guys are really good. There is theory that suggest a limit somewhere near 110 mph
where it becomes almost impossible to hit. We can still see it but swing and react when it could
be out of the strike zone or a splitter just much closer to impossible. IF the numbers against
these new 110 mph pitchers come down even further should we claim the pool of elite is less?

[Ozziesfan41]

2006 and 2011 are examples of why you try to make the playoffs and then go on a run. People who said we shouldn't have added in July when we were 5 games over .500 I disagree with. First you make the playoffs. Then you try to win it all.

lol to compare the 2006 and 2011 teams to last years team is crazy

Because they didn't dump payroll in 2006 and 2011. I'll bet you didn't say that at the time because nobody had us winning the WS.

The St. Louis Cardinals were long shots to win the 2006 World Series, considered underdogs with odds potentially around 100-to-1 (100/1) or higher (some sources mention 999/1 during the season) before their improbable run, as they only won 83 regular season games, the fewest ever for a champion, and had a losing record after the All-Star break, but still clinched the title over the heavily favored Detroit Tigers.

lol in 2006 they were hit hard with injuries that caused their regular season record to be bad they just got healthy at the right time they also carpenter had the MV3 a cy young ace and a hall of fame manager yea if this team had that I would say sure stay in it you can with that in 2011 a cy young caliber ace lance berkman Matt Holliday Albert pujols and a hall of fame manager. The teams aren’t even comparable it’s a joke to even try. These teams the cardinals have Been squeaking in with are good for one and done. The cardinals wouldn’t have even been a speed bump in the post season if they made it in this season

[WeeVikes]

2006 and 2011 are examples of why you try to make the playoffs and then go on a run. People who said we shouldn't have added in July when we were 5 games over .500 I disagree with. First you make the playoffs. Then you try to win it all.

lol to compare the 2006 and 2011 teams to last years team is crazy

Because they didn't dump payroll in 2006 and 2011. I'll bet you didn't say that at the time because nobody had us winning the WS.

The St. Louis Cardinals were long shots to win the 2006 World Series, considered underdogs with odds potentially around 100-to-1 (100/1) or higher (some sources mention 999/1 during the season) before their improbable run, as they only won 83 regular season games, the fewest ever for a champion, and had a losing record after the All-Star break, but still clinched the title over the heavily favored Detroit Tigers.

lol in 2006 they were hit hard with injuries that caused their regular season record to be bad they just got healthy at the right time they also carpenter had the MV3 a cy young ace and a hall of fame manager yea if this team had that I would say sure stay in it you can with that in 2011 a cy young caliber ace lance berkman Matt Holliday Albert pujols and a hall of fame manager. The teams aren’t even comparable it’s a joke to even try. These teams the cardinals have Been squeaking in with are good for one and done. The cardinals wouldn’t have even been a speed bump in the post season if they made it in this season

The core of that 2006 team was the same as the 2004 team, which may have been the best Cardinal team I’ve ever seen. The injuries resulted in a record that absolutely disguised what a powerhouse they were. In fact, didn’t they start the 2006 season absolutely scorching until the injuries piled up, and they were able to ride that cushion for a while? (Then again, I could be completely misremembering, and I will gladly admit it if so.)

[Goldfan]

Sure

In today's dollars C4L that would equate to a 2026 payroll of approx. $151,000,000+.

And also just because hollidays 16 million dollar salary would be worth 23 million or so today with the way baseball salaries have skyrocketed he would be making way more than 23 million he would be a 35 million dollar a year player At least carp would be a 40 million dollar pitcher

No doubt

And Albert would soon be a $75M player given 2011 was his walk season!

For sure dodgers would probably sign him 4 years 400 million

No doubt

It's insane to think what Albert would get after 2011 in todays market given he'd bring a:

Career
.326 .417 .614 1.031 slash
+ 469 HR's
+1397 RBI's
+ 3 MVP's
+ 2 Gold Glove
+ 2 WS Rings to the free agency table!

$1,000,000,000 for 10 years

Come on fellas…..juiced balls and slow throwing pitchers back in the prehistoric days…..no way AP throws up those numbers
Now keep in mind I’m just parroting the same [nonsense] I get all the time when a discussion comes up about why today’s batters suck…..its the GREAT PITCHING

Well I guess if Aaron judge hits the way he does he would hit 100 home runs back in Albert pujols day and ohtani would hit 90 home runs lol and Raleigh would have hit at least 80 then huh? Why do you think pujols wouldn’t be an elite hitter today?

Oz, I have no doubt that AP would be an elite hitter today….as would most of the elite hitters from that era. The talent pool of elite hitters is much less in 2026 than 20-25 yrs ago and it has nothing to do with hard throwing pitchers and spin rates.

The elite will perform in any era but would they perform at the same numbers?

Velocity matters. IF everything is exactly the same elite. Reaction time, swing speeds,
bat to ball skills, etc. When a ball goes 100 mph pitch recognition time is 0.10 sec to 0.18 sec
when a ball takes only .37 sec to travel to the plate. Give a ball 0.41-0.43 secs in a 90 mph
pitch adds 0.04 to 0.06 secs to the pitch recognition times. All minute milliseconds of time.
but is also about a 35% increase. How can that not have an impact?

Albert Pujols had excellent stats against Randy Johnson, hitting .452 with 5 home runs, 13 RBIs, a 1.208 slugging, and a 1.708 OPS in 26 plate appearances, including a crucial postseason home run in 2001, showcasing his dominance against "The Big Unit" despite Johnson's legendary pitching

All these pitchers avg FB was mid to high 90’s
AP stats against
K. Wood .333, 1.062
Farnsworth .296, 1.107
AJ Burnett .304, 1.056
Josh Beckett .308, 1.115
Kershaw .359, .932

I believe that I have done a poor job of proposing the position. I apologize.

AP is elite with 3 things that matter most versus velocities. Reaction times
as measured at Washington University. His swing times as also measured and
also recognition times. IF velocities do indeed decrease his recognition times,
they almost have to, his other elite skills made up for those times.

Again,
The elite will perform in any era but would they perform at the same numbers?

Now there are HOF players that have some hitting skills that are considered elite also.
One such was just traded to AZ. His swing times are more than AP's, he still needs to recognize
the pitch and react in a now smaller window of time. His numbers come down. Do HOF hitters
who have 3000 hits all do so versus increased velocity.

My position says that they all do not.

You proposed that there aren't as many elite hitters. Maybe that is true but how do we
measure that when we use things like hits that were accomplished against less velocity giving
them more time to react?

Far more discussion than argument.

These guys are really good. There is theory that suggest a limit somewhere near 110 mph
where it becomes almost impossible to hit. We can still see it but swing and react when it could
be out of the strike zone or a splitter just much closer to impossible. IF the numbers against
these new 110 mph pitchers come down even further should we claim the pool of elite is less?

I don’t disagree about velocity, I do disagree with posters(not you) that pop in on discussions about players from generations ago and argue that they wouldn’t be able to perform today. AP, Bonds, Thomas, Griffey, Thome, Arod(without roids) were just as talented or possibly more so at hitting than Judge or Ohtani….but for some reason today’s young fan think those 2 are some versions of demigods…..and they may appear like that because the depth of elite talent in MLB is bad. So they only really have those 2 when in generations prior the elite may have been6- 8-10 players.

[Goldfan]

2006 and 2011 are examples of why you try to make the playoffs and then go on a run. People who said we shouldn't have added in July when we were 5 games over .500 I disagree with. First you make the playoffs. Then you try to win it all.

lol to compare the 2006 and 2011 teams to last years team is crazy

Because they didn't dump payroll in 2006 and 2011. I'll bet you didn't say that at the time because nobody had us winning the WS.

The St. Louis Cardinals were long shots to win the 2006 World Series, considered underdogs with odds potentially around 100-to-1 (100/1) or higher (some sources mention 999/1 during the season) before their improbable run, as they only won 83 regular season games, the fewest ever for a champion, and had a losing record after the All-Star break, but still clinched the title over the heavily favored Detroit Tigers.

lol in 2006 they were hit hard with injuries that caused their regular season record to be bad they just got healthy at the right time they also carpenter had the MV3 a cy young ace and a hall of fame manager yea if this team had that I would say sure stay in it you can with that in 2011 a cy young caliber ace lance berkman Matt Holliday Albert pujols and a hall of fame manager. The teams aren’t even comparable it’s a joke to even try. These teams the cardinals have Been squeaking in with are good for one and done. The cardinals wouldn’t have even been a speed bump in the post season if they made it in this season

The core of that 2006 team was the same as the 2004 team, which may have been the best Cardinal team I’ve ever seen. The injuries resulted in a record that absolutely disguised what a powerhouse they were. In fact, didn’t they start the 2006 season absolutely scorching until the injuries piled up, and they were able to ride that cushion for a while? (Then again, I could be completely misremembering, and I will gladly admit it if so.)

They won 100 games in 2005…..injuries torpedoed 2006 regular season

[Cardinals1964]

The bigger question is how could the Cardinals of 2026 have a lesser payroll than the 2011 version. In 15 years how much have payrolls exploded in baseball. The Cardinals in 2026 are probably the only team who has a reduced payroll from their 2011 version.

What’s the payroll including money going to other teams?

[Whatashame]

The bigger question is how could the Cardinals of 2026 have a lesser payroll than the 2011 version. In 15 years how much have payrolls exploded in baseball. The Cardinals in 2026 are probably the only team who has a reduced payroll from their 2011 version.

What’s the payroll including money going to other teams?

We all know the answer to that. Without looking it up we are sending 40-50 million of that back to other teams. Our actual 26 man payroll is around 60 million dollars and if we are successful in trading Donovan, Romero or possibly Nootbaar, then obviously less than that.