STLtoday.com

rockondlouie wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 11:52 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:32 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:02 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:53 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:46 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:31 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:12 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Because he's a FA after 2026 and they'll lose him then and only get a draft pick in return. You can trade him now and still get a haul.

So sign him…..not like the LA pitcher is cheap

First of all we don't know if Glasnow will be part of the return. Second we don't know if Skubal is willing to sign an extension in Detroit (maybe they've tried and he is unwilling, thus they're willing to trade him). Third, there a difference between paying a top SP $30M for two years vs. giving out probably the biggest SP contract in history (ignoring Ohtani).

Ilitch has the $$

Mike Ilitch died in 2017. The team is run by a holding company with his son as president, not sure they are willing to spend as Mike was, especially in his later years.

Even if they can afford it (every team in baseball can afford it, if they so choose), that doesn't mean Skubal is willing to sign there. Is signing a SP to likely the largest pitcher contract in history a better decision than getting a haul for Skubal in a trade? I'm not sure it is from the Tiger's perspective.

Family worth 7Bil
157mil 2025 payroll
Flaherty and Torres(44mil) combined are FA after next season.

In Mike Ilitch's last years, when the Tigers were good, he spent a lot on payroll. The Tigers were a playoff team this year, and a $157M payroll is not high by 2025 standards. That, and the mere fact that they are shopping Skubal should indicate that "just spend whatever it takes to keep him" is likely not an option for the Tigers (or, again, Skubal isn't interested in signing there long term).

This started off with a very straight forward question: "why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?" Sometimes the obvious answer is the truth. The Tigers consistently had the 4th or 5th highest payroll in MLB from 2012 until 2017 when Mike Ilitch died. Their opening day payroll in 2025 wasn't even in the top half of the league (assuming the website I found is even close to accurate).

Mike Illitch was a poor Detroit kid who made it big (of course) in Pizza.

He was on record saying he'd spend whatever it took to bring championships to the Red Wings (it worked) and the Tigers (it didn't, thank you 2006 Cardinals ).

He was an earlier version of S. Cohen, who now has the same philosophy for this hometown Mets.

The kid doesn't have the same passion.

I'd deal Skubal too, just would hate to see the Dodgers w/another great pitcher.

Absolut wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 12:27 pm

makesnosense wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 11:48 am

C-Unit wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:02 am

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:59 am

MrPostman01 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:55 am Just form a new league and let the Dodgers form their own.

how is this any different than what the Yankees did back in the day?

It's different because the Yankees won all their championships BEFORE they started adding all the superstars.

Not correct in the slightest.

Yanks won all of their championships before they bought the Bambino to support Boston theaters

zuck698 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 17:09 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 11:52 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:32 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:02 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:53 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:46 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:31 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:12 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Because he's a FA after 2026 and they'll lose him then and only get a draft pick in return. You can trade him now and still get a haul.

So sign him…..not like the LA pitcher is cheap

First of all we don't know if Glasnow will be part of the return. Second we don't know if Skubal is willing to sign an extension in Detroit (maybe they've tried and he is unwilling, thus they're willing to trade him). Third, there a difference between paying a top SP $30M for two years vs. giving out probably the biggest SP contract in history (ignoring Ohtani).

Ilitch has the $$

Mike Ilitch died in 2017. The team is run by a holding company with his son as president, not sure they are willing to spend as Mike was, especially in his later years.

Even if they can afford it (every team in baseball can afford it, if they so choose), that doesn't mean Skubal is willing to sign there. Is signing a SP to likely the largest pitcher contract in history a better decision than getting a haul for Skubal in a trade? I'm not sure it is from the Tiger's perspective.

Family worth 7Bil
157mil 2025 payroll
Flaherty and Torres(44mil) combined are FA after next season.

In Mike Ilitch's last years, when the Tigers were good, he spent a lot on payroll. The Tigers were a playoff team this year, and a $157M payroll is not high by 2025 standards. That, and the mere fact that they are shopping Skubal should indicate that "just spend whatever it takes to keep him" is likely not an option for the Tigers (or, again, Skubal isn't interested in signing there long term).

This started off with a very straight forward question: "why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?" Sometimes the obvious answer is the truth. The Tigers consistently had the 4th or 5th highest payroll in MLB from 2012 until 2017 when Mike Ilitch died. Their opening day payroll in 2025 wasn't even in the top half of the league (assuming the website I found is even close to accurate).

Mike Illitch was a poor Detroit kid who made it big (of course) in Pizza.

He was on record saying he'd spend whatever it took to bring championships to the Red Wings (it worked) and the Tigers (it didn't, thank you 2006 Cardinals ).

He was an earlier version of S. Cohen, who now has the same philosophy for this hometown Mets.

The kid doesn't have the same passion.

I'd deal Skubal too, just would hate to see the Dodgers w/another great pitcher.

The kid is more like our "Fredo" Rock. What kind of give away can we use to get those fans in here type guy. My brother-in-law lives in Detroit and he says the son says some of the same things about marketing and making the game day event fun for everyone, rather than "We are going to put the best team on the Field" type conversation.

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

VegasVinny wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 13:08 pm Miguel Cabrera's contract was a capital-a Albatross the last seven (7!) years.

From 2017-2023, Cabrera was paid $220 million to produce -2.4 WAR. Is it the only reason the Tigers were unable to field a competitive team during that time? No, but it played a significant role. In fact, you could probably make the argument that the back-end of his contract forced front offices to completely rethink the contracts they offer players on the wrong side of 28.

Was Miggy comparable to Albert for nearly a decade? Yes. Is he a lock to make Hall of Famer? Yes. Was it worth hamstringing his team's payroll for seven years? Probably not.

Pitchers age differently than batters, but if I'm Detroit, I've seen this movie before and I move him with the hopes and dreams of getting 75% of his production back at what'll eventually amount to 25% of the cost.

I think you could continue the analogy and say Pujols' contract with the Angels was an albatross for most of his time there. He put up -0.5 fWAR over the final 6.5 years with the Angels (was worth 0.5 fWAR with the Dodgers after being traded in the final year of the contract), meaning he was worth 0 fWAR over the final 7 years. Albert was only worth 6.5 fWAR in the first three years of the deal (and over the entire deal for that matter as the aforementioned final 7 years were worth 0 fWAR).

VegasVinny wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 08:45 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

VegasVinny wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 13:08 pm Miguel Cabrera's contract was a capital-a Albatross the last seven (7!) years.

From 2017-2023, Cabrera was paid $220 million to produce -2.4 WAR. Is it the only reason the Tigers were unable to field a competitive team during that time? No, but it played a significant role. In fact, you could probably make the argument that the back-end of his contract forced front offices to completely rethink the contracts they offer players on the wrong side of 28.

Was Miggy comparable to Albert for nearly a decade? Yes. Is he a lock to make Hall of Famer? Yes. Was it worth hamstringing his team's payroll for seven years? Probably not.

Pitchers age differently than batters, but if I'm Detroit, I've seen this movie before and I move him with the hopes and dreams of getting 75% of his production back at what'll eventually amount to 25% of the cost.

I think you could continue the analogy and say Pujols' contract with the Angels was an albatross for most of his time there. He put up -0.5 fWAR over the final 6.5 years with the Angels (was worth 0.5 fWAR with the Dodgers after being traded in the final year of the contract), meaning he was worth 0 fWAR over the final 7 years. Albert was only worth 6.5 fWAR in the first three years of the deal (and over the entire deal for that matter as the aforementioned final 7 years were worth 0 fWAR).

Certainly. It was right around that time when Mozeliak said something along the lines of "we're not going to pay players for past production." He (Mo) wasn't wrong.

VegasVinny wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 13:08 pm Miguel Cabrera's contract was a capital-a Albatross the last seven (7!) years.

From 2017-2023, Cabrera was paid $220 million to produce -2.4 WAR. Is it the only reason the Tigers were unable to field a competitive team during that time? No, but it played a significant role. In fact, you could probably make the argument that the back-end of his contract forced front offices to completely rethink the contracts they offer players on the wrong side of 28.

Was Miggy comparable to Albert for nearly a decade? Yes. Is he a lock to make Hall of Famer? Yes. Was it worth hamstringing his team's payroll for seven years? Probably not.

Pitchers age differently than batters, but if I'm Detroit, I've seen this movie before and I move him with the hopes and dreams of getting 75% of his production back at what'll eventually amount to 25% of the cost.

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

3dender wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 12:16 pm

VegasVinny wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 13:08 pm Miguel Cabrera's contract was a capital-a Albatross the last seven (7!) years.

From 2017-2023, Cabrera was paid $220 million to produce -2.4 WAR. Is it the only reason the Tigers were unable to field a competitive team during that time? No, but it played a significant role. In fact, you could probably make the argument that the back-end of his contract forced front offices to completely rethink the contracts they offer players on the wrong side of 28.

Was Miggy comparable to Albert for nearly a decade? Yes. Is he a lock to make Hall of Famer? Yes. Was it worth hamstringing his team's payroll for seven years? Probably not.

Pitchers age differently than batters, but if I'm Detroit, I've seen this movie before and I move him with the hopes and dreams of getting 75% of his production back at what'll eventually amount to 25% of the cost.

Cabrera was a special case and a total own-goal by Detroit F.O. He had 2 years left on his contract when they signed him to an 8 year extension before his age 31 season, right after he won his 2nd consecutive MVP. It was an obvious dumb move immediately, and if they had just waited until the next offseason and seen his falloff that season (from 7.5 bWAR to 5.1), they could have easily avoided that albatross contract.

Not really relevant to Skubal discussion given age difference, aforementioned self-own, and rarity of pitchers of Skubal's caliber. The list of pitchers who have won 2 CYAs in a row since 1980 is 8 pitchers long, 75% of them slam dunk HOFers and one more with a solid argument.

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Dec 2025 08:42 am

zuck698 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 17:09 pm The kid is more like our "Fredo" Rock. What kind of give away can we use to get those fans in here type guy. My brother-in-law lives in Detroit and he says the son says some of the same things about marketing and making the game day event fun for everyone, rather than "We are going to put the best team on the Field" type conversation.

100% zuck!

When I tagged BDWIII "Fredo" a few years ago I didn't realize he had a twin brother in Detroit.