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Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 12 Nov 2025 12:50 pm
by Jatalk
Carp4Cy wrote: 12 Nov 2025 01:05 am
Jatalk wrote: 11 Nov 2025 06:15 am
hmoss859 wrote: 10 Nov 2025 13:31 pm Is evidently on the trading block That would be a nice addition.

Friars would like Donovan or Burley plus a catching prospect
Nice addition for a rebuilding team? I don’t think so. Too expensive. Maybe too old. When will we start to understand what a rebuild means?????
If 26 is too old we aren’t ever coming out of this “rebuild”.
My mistake. I thought older

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 12 Nov 2025 13:19 pm
by Adam2
hmoss859 wrote: 10 Nov 2025 13:31 pm Is evidently on the trading block That would be a nice addition.

Friars would like Donovan or Burley plus a catching prospect
How do you know they would like that? and fyi, they'd laugh at you

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 12 Nov 2025 13:32 pm
by rbirules
Adam2 wrote: 12 Nov 2025 13:19 pm
hmoss859 wrote: 10 Nov 2025 13:31 pm Is evidently on the trading block That would be a nice addition.

Friars would like Donovan or Burley plus a catching prospect
How do you know they would like that? and fyi, they'd laugh at you
That was one of the first questions that came to my mind as well "do the Padres need these players?" They did acquire Ryan O'Hearn at the deadline, and he's a UFA. Burleson is a similar player. Arraez is a FA as well. Donovan could replace him as a high OBP infielder, thought Arraez played mostly 1B. Donovan (or Burleson if they are brave) could get time in the OF to offset Tatis' if they'd rather stick with other options on the infield (Cronenworth, and Sheets). Though they do need a DH, getting two quality bats that have flexibility is a solid start to an offer, but I'm sure other teams could put together more attractive packages.

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 12 Nov 2025 13:42 pm
by rbirules
ecleme22 wrote: 11 Nov 2025 23:48 pm
hmoss859 wrote: 10 Nov 2025 15:49 pm 26 yo entering his prime.

8 years/200 million left on contract.

Contributes 6-7 WAR per season.

They can have Burleson, McGreevy, Crooks and Walker
200 mil?

I counted 286 mi and 9 years.

I respect Tatis's great defense, but post roids, he's like an .810 OPS player.

He's young. I think he could be really good for a while. But I don't know if I want to give up the majority of our resources for a left fielder.

But it is interesting.
Tatis will be 27 when the next season starts, and he's probably more of a 5-6 WAR player (small chance he gets to 6.5 or 7+ WAR). He's also a RF not a LF.

He's owed the following by year . . .
2026 - Age 27, $20M
2027 - Age 28, $25M
2028 - Age 29, $25M
2029 - Age 30, $36M
2030 - Age 31, $36M
2031 - Age 32, $36M
2032 - Age 33, $36M
2033 - Age 34, $36M
2034 - Age 35, $36M
Total - 9 years, $286M

I agree with your point, it's a lot to give up for a 27 year old corner OF essentially on a top FA contract (the cheap years are gone). But he's 27 not 29 or 30 like most FAs, he's still a very good hitter (if not elite), and a great defender.

As I said before, you only consider this move if ownership is going to reverse course and spend resources to be good in 2026, or 2027 at the latest. It's very interesting as players like this, at this age, are rarely available, let alone ones already locked up long term.

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 12 Nov 2025 13:51 pm
by renostl
rbirules wrote: 12 Nov 2025 13:42 pm
ecleme22 wrote: 11 Nov 2025 23:48 pm
hmoss859 wrote: 10 Nov 2025 15:49 pm 26 yo entering his prime.

8 years/200 million left on contract.

Contributes 6-7 WAR per season.

They can have Burleson, McGreevy, Crooks and Walker
200 mil?

I counted 286 mi and 9 years.

I respect Tatis's great defense, but post roids, he's like an .810 OPS player.

He's young. I think he could be really good for a while. But I don't know if I want to give up the majority of our resources for a left fielder.

But it is interesting.
Tatis will be 27 when the next season starts, and he's probably more of a 5-6 WAR player (small chance he gets to 6.5 or 7+ WAR). He's also a RF not a LF.

He's owed the following by year . . .
2026 - Age 27, $20M
2027 - Age 28, $25M
2028 - Age 29, $25M
2029 - Age 30, $36M
2030 - Age 31, $36M
2031 - Age 32, $36M
2032 - Age 33, $36M
2033 - Age 34, $36M
2034 - Age 35, $36M
Total - 9 years, $286M

I agree with your point, it's a lot to give up for a 27 year old corner OF essentially on a top FA contract (the cheap years are gone). But he's 27 not 29 or 30 like most FAs, he's still a very good hitter (if not elite), and a great defender.

As I said before, you only consider this move if ownership is going to reverse course and spend resources to be good in 2026, or 2027 at the latest. It's very interesting as players like this, at this age, are rarely available, let alone ones already locked up long term.
How's he look at 3B?
One of the reasons he was pushed to the OF was that
he couldn't be pushed to 3B due to Manny.

The WAR may go up a notch.

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 12 Nov 2025 13:56 pm
by rbirules
renostl wrote: 12 Nov 2025 13:51 pm
rbirules wrote: 12 Nov 2025 13:42 pm
ecleme22 wrote: 11 Nov 2025 23:48 pm
hmoss859 wrote: 10 Nov 2025 15:49 pm 26 yo entering his prime.

8 years/200 million left on contract.

Contributes 6-7 WAR per season.

They can have Burleson, McGreevy, Crooks and Walker
200 mil?

I counted 286 mi and 9 years.

I respect Tatis's great defense, but post roids, he's like an .810 OPS player.

He's young. I think he could be really good for a while. But I don't know if I want to give up the majority of our resources for a left fielder.

But it is interesting.
Tatis will be 27 when the next season starts, and he's probably more of a 5-6 WAR player (small chance he gets to 6.5 or 7+ WAR). He's also a RF not a LF.

He's owed the following by year . . .
2026 - Age 27, $20M
2027 - Age 28, $25M
2028 - Age 29, $25M
2029 - Age 30, $36M
2030 - Age 31, $36M
2031 - Age 32, $36M
2032 - Age 33, $36M
2033 - Age 34, $36M
2034 - Age 35, $36M
Total - 9 years, $286M

I agree with your point, it's a lot to give up for a 27 year old corner OF essentially on a top FA contract (the cheap years are gone). But he's 27 not 29 or 30 like most FAs, he's still a very good hitter (if not elite), and a great defender.

As I said before, you only consider this move if ownership is going to reverse course and spend resources to be good in 2026, or 2027 at the latest. It's very interesting as players like this, at this age, are rarely available, let alone ones already locked up long term.
How's he look at 3B?
One of the reasons he was pushed to the OF was that
he couldn't be pushed to 3B due to Manny.

The WAR may go up a notch.
We desperately need some OF production do we not? We have options for 3B (Gorman, Saggese, Donovan if not traded, JJW if not at 2B), none of which I really want to push to a corner OF spot. I'm sure Tatis could play 3B, but he's a very good defensive OF and the alternative is probably playing a bad defender in RF if Tatis is at 3B, so I'm not sure the net WAR gain, across both spots, would be much, if anything.

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 12 Nov 2025 14:13 pm
by renostl
rbirules wrote: 12 Nov 2025 13:56 pm
renostl wrote: 12 Nov 2025 13:51 pm
rbirules wrote: 12 Nov 2025 13:42 pm
ecleme22 wrote: 11 Nov 2025 23:48 pm
hmoss859 wrote: 10 Nov 2025 15:49 pm 26 yo entering his prime.

8 years/200 million left on contract.

Contributes 6-7 WAR per season.

They can have Burleson, McGreevy, Crooks and Walker
200 mil?

I counted 286 mi and 9 years.

I respect Tatis's great defense, but post roids, he's like an .810 OPS player.

He's young. I think he could be really good for a while. But I don't know if I want to give up the majority of our resources for a left fielder.

But it is interesting.
Tatis will be 27 when the next season starts, and he's probably more of a 5-6 WAR player (small chance he gets to 6.5 or 7+ WAR). He's also a RF not a LF.

He's owed the following by year . . .
2026 - Age 27, $20M
2027 - Age 28, $25M
2028 - Age 29, $25M
2029 - Age 30, $36M
2030 - Age 31, $36M
2031 - Age 32, $36M
2032 - Age 33, $36M
2033 - Age 34, $36M
2034 - Age 35, $36M
Total - 9 years, $286M

I agree with your point, it's a lot to give up for a 27 year old corner OF essentially on a top FA contract (the cheap years are gone). But he's 27 not 29 or 30 like most FAs, he's still a very good hitter (if not elite), and a great defender.

As I said before, you only consider this move if ownership is going to reverse course and spend resources to be good in 2026, or 2027 at the latest. It's very interesting as players like this, at this age, are rarely available, let alone ones already locked up long term.
How's he look at 3B?
One of the reasons he was pushed to the OF was that
he couldn't be pushed to 3B due to Manny.

The WAR may go up a notch.
We desperately need some OF production do we not? We have options for 3B (Gorman, Saggese, Donovan if not traded, JJW if not at 2B), none of which I really want to push to a corner OF spot. I'm sure Tatis could play 3B, but he's a very good defensive OF and the alternative is probably playing a bad defender in RF if Tatis is at 3B, so I'm not sure the net WAR gain, across both spots, would be much, if anything.
Sure they've need OF for what seems like a decade.
No debate.

A few thoughts on this event that's unlikely happen. Part of the reason
the Cards haven't fixed it is the next new great hope will fix it. Corner outfielders
are available.
The Cards will have to give to get someone like Tatis, that might thin the herd of Cardinal
infielders. IMO the group you mentioned aren't in ink for 3B, maybe only JJ.

Tatis if on the market is being looked at beyond being a RFer. Boston fot 1 could get a cheaper, younger Bregman
let him walk.

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 12 Nov 2025 14:17 pm
by rockondlouie
rbirules wrote: 12 Nov 2025 13:42 pm
ecleme22 wrote: 11 Nov 2025 23:48 pm
hmoss859 wrote: 10 Nov 2025 15:49 pm 26 yo entering his prime.

8 years/200 million left on contract.

Contributes 6-7 WAR per season.

They can have Burleson, McGreevy, Crooks and Walker
200 mil?

I counted 286 mi and 9 years.

I respect Tatis's great defense, but post roids, he's like an .810 OPS player.

He's young. I think he could be really good for a while. But I don't know if I want to give up the majority of our resources for a left fielder.

But it is interesting.
Tatis will be 27 when the next season starts, and he's probably more of a 5-6 WAR player (small chance he gets to 6.5 or 7+ WAR). He's also a RF not a LF.

He's owed the following by year . . .
2026 - Age 27, $20M
2027 - Age 28, $25M
2028 - Age 29, $25M
2029 - Age 30, $36M
2030 - Age 31, $36M
2031 - Age 32, $36M
2032 - Age 33, $36M
2033 - Age 34, $36M
2034 - Age 35, $36M
Total - 9 years, $286M

I agree with your point, it's a lot to give up for a 27 year old corner OF essentially on a top FA contract (the cheap years are gone). But he's 27 not 29 or 30 like most FAs, he's still a very good hitter (if not elite), and a great defender.

As I said before, you only consider this move if ownership is going to reverse course and spend resources to be good in 2026, or 2027 at the latest. It's very interesting as players like this, at this age, are rarely available, let alone ones already locked up long term.
Adding a young star like F. Tatis makes perfect sense giving C. Bloom two players (JJW) to build around for the next decade (assuming JJW pans out and is extended)!

His full contract can easily be added!

Per fangraphs

Cardinals est. on-the-books payroll:

2027
$38.5M (This includes NADO) + ARBS + Pre-ARBS + Rookies
(ARB 3/4 Donny-Noot-Pallante-King could all be gone via trades and DFA leaving only a few ARB 2's,ARB 1's and Pre's)

2028
$5M (WillyC's buyout) + ARBS + Pre-ARBS + Rookies

2029-------------Virtually nothing!

JJW + Tatis = BUTTS in the seats watching these two!

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 13 Nov 2025 12:23 pm
by rage-STL

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 13 Nov 2025 13:22 pm
by rbirules
It does seem like the Padres need SP, Rains' suggestion of including Gray in the deal is interesting. It's short term increase or neutral (if the Cardinals buy down his contract) while getting the Padres out of a long term deal. Obviously more would need to be added, but that's an interesting piece to include in a trade proposal.

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 13 Nov 2025 14:08 pm
by renostl
rbirules wrote: 13 Nov 2025 13:22 pm
It does seem like the Padres need SP, Rains' suggestion of including Gray in the deal is interesting. It's short term increase or neutral (if the Cardinals buy down his contract) while getting the Padres out of a long term deal. Obviously more would need to be added, but that's an interesting piece to include in a trade proposal.
Gray can be under control for 2 seasons for them, I think.
I'm not sure what the additional pieces would look like. Would SD want prospects
or something for the 26?

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 13 Nov 2025 15:02 pm
by rbirules
renostl wrote: 13 Nov 2025 14:08 pm
rbirules wrote: 13 Nov 2025 13:22 pm
It does seem like the Padres need SP, Rains' suggestion of including Gray in the deal is interesting. It's short term increase or neutral (if the Cardinals buy down his contract) while getting the Padres out of a long term deal. Obviously more would need to be added, but that's an interesting piece to include in a trade proposal.
Gray can be under control for 2 seasons for them, I think.
I'm not sure what the additional pieces would look like. Would SD want prospects
or something for the 26?
Yes, Gray has an option for 2027. Gray has little value on his own, especially compared to Tatis, so you'd definitely need to add significant value in addition to him. I mean if they want Gray I assume they plan to compete in 2026, so players like Donovan or Burleson would probably have some interest.

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 13 Nov 2025 15:08 pm
by Ozziesfan41
The cardinals don’t get tatis unless they give up JJ and or Doyle and other prospects. People thinking that they would be able to trade some meh to decent players like gray burleson and Donovan for him are wrong

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 13 Nov 2025 15:12 pm
by NYCardsFan
rbirules wrote: 13 Nov 2025 15:02 pm
renostl wrote: 13 Nov 2025 14:08 pm
rbirules wrote: 13 Nov 2025 13:22 pm
It does seem like the Padres need SP, Rains' suggestion of including Gray in the deal is interesting. It's short term increase or neutral (if the Cardinals buy down his contract) while getting the Padres out of a long term deal. Obviously more would need to be added, but that's an interesting piece to include in a trade proposal.
Gray can be under control for 2 seasons for them, I think.
I'm not sure what the additional pieces would look like. Would SD want prospects
or something for the 26?
Yes, Gray has an option for 2027. Gray has little value on his own, especially compared to Tatis, so you'd definitely need to add significant value in addition to him. I mean if they want Gray I assume they plan to compete in 2026, so players like Donovan or Burleson would probably have some interest.
It was reported today that the Padres (the Seidler family) have formally engaged bankers and are exploring a sale of the team. Preller reportedly has limited flexibility. Unclear how that context affects any potential Tatis deal, though one suspects they would be looking for fairly short-term contractual liabilities coming back to them in any deal.

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 13 Nov 2025 15:30 pm
by rbirules
Ozziesfan41 wrote: 13 Nov 2025 15:08 pm The cardinals don’t get tatis unless they give up JJ and or Doyle and other prospects. People thinking that they would be able to trade some meh to decent players like gray burleson and Donovan for him are wrong
I think it comes down to what San Diego ownership (who's trying to sell) wants. Do they want to strip the team of long term deals to sell it? Do they want shorter term deals (or slightly fewer long term deals) but a team positioned to contend still?

If the former then yeah they'd be seeking out top prospects which I have no interest in trading at this time. If that removes us from the running so be it.

If they want pitching and pieces that help them contend in 2026 then Gray, Donovan, and Burleson with some cash to buy down Gray's deal a bit makes a lot of sense as a starting point. Could other teams come along and top that? I'm sure some could. Are those teams in a position to add a long term deal like Tatis? Some might be. For some it might not matter, for others it might.

Re: Fernando Tatis Jr

Posted: 13 Nov 2025 15:33 pm
by cardinalsfan27
Ozziesfan41 wrote: 13 Nov 2025 15:08 pm The cardinals don’t get tatis unless they give up JJ and or Doyle and other prospects. People thinking that they would be able to trade some meh to decent players like gray burleson and Donovan for him are wrong
I agree but Gray, Donny, Crooks, a prospect (not JJ or Doyle) and $20 million would help them out a lot. It would be worth trying but I think a lot of other teams could beat that offer.

They announced today that the owner is looking to sell the team so I’m sure shedding a lot of payroll while still being competitive would be a big deal. But again, another team could probably beat that deal.