Kyrou - benched

[theograce]

He wants out of STL … STL want him out

What a complete mess. Very much like Tarasenko

I have no idea if he wants out but the fans are definitely ready to see it.

Don't agree on Tarasenko who competed and whose signature was game tying/game leading goals, but that's neither here nor there re: Kyrou IMO. We agree about Buchnevich.

You can tell he wants out and his language reflects it (from reports). Who wouldn’t want out given all of this and his history. You wouldn’t want in either.

it's an offensive concept what the player wants in this situation. he's a cancer. cancer wishes it could operate in a different body? so what

At the end of the day, no matter you or I think, the Blues have failed in their management of him.

Respectfully disagree. This is big boy hockey and at some point, it's on the player.

I agree with you bud*. Kyrou is in the sullen "See?" cycle of competition and that's where born losers live out their days. You have to wake up in the morning willing to do whatever it takes to outcompete these incredibly determined people chasing millions behind their own real talents. Kyrou just isn't made up that way. I am sorry, people who have it know the people who do not have it. He does not have it.



*Totally off topic but you might like Andre de Toth's Crime Wave (1953) if you like the Bud White character from LA Confidential. I like and appreciate both, but neither film make my top 100 doom noir list due to happy ending violation

Lots of bias in that. We all have it. Lines were crossed by the Blues and there was poor management. That’s not up for debate. It’s been acknowledged by the Blues even

[seattleblue]

He wants out of STL … STL want him out

What a complete mess. Very much like Tarasenko

I have no idea if he wants out but the fans are definitely ready to see it.

Don't agree on Tarasenko who competed and whose signature was game tying/game leading goals, but that's neither here nor there re: Kyrou IMO. We agree about Buchnevich.

You can tell he wants out and his language reflects it (from reports). Who wouldn’t want out given all of this and his history. You wouldn’t want in either.

it's an offensive concept what the player wants in this situation. he's a cancer. cancer wishes it could operate in a different body? so what

At the end of the day, no matter you or I think, the Blues have failed in their management of him.

Respectfully disagree. This is big boy hockey and at some point, it's on the player.

I agree with you bud*. Kyrou is in the sullen "See?" cycle of competition and that's where born losers live out their days. You have to wake up in the morning willing to do whatever it takes to outcompete these incredibly determined people chasing millions behind their own real talents. Kyrou just isn't made up that way. I am sorry, people who have it know the people who do not have it. He does not have it.



*Totally off topic but you might like Andre de Toth's Crime Wave (1953) if you like the Bud White character from LA Confidential. I like and appreciate both, but neither film make my top 100 doom noir list due to happy ending violation

Lots of bias in that. We all have it. Lines were crossed by the Blues and there was poor management. That’s not up for debate. It’s been acknowledged by the Blues even

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

[82birds]

(PS I meant Harry York who hates him & who I tried to convince, I don't recall Harry Deals take)

What about Buch!?!?!?!?

He was awesome for two seasons, then ok, and now I loathe the sight of him on the ice

For me other main parts of this current issues are:

Bad mix of top 9 forwards, esp without Neighbours and Holloway being a shell of what he was last year, aging Schenn = too soft
Relying now on young, inexperienced players in key roles
Odd bottom 3 defenders
Bad goaltending

anything else, Harry?
LOL
actually, good points all

[SameOldBlues]

Blues would be lucky to geta 2nd rounder for him right now. No way can you trade em till he at least goes on another scoring streak, then adios

[theograce]

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

Whereas I look it as you have an asset and are in positions of power and due to emotion and other variables, you publicly treat that asset poorly which only serves to hurt your organization.

My feelings aside on Kyrou, the Blues have handled him very, very poorly, which to me is the much bigger problem for the organization.

[netboy65]

I hope the team does trade him somewhere so he can finally flourish. Why he’s always the scapegoat with so much other dead weight on this team is truly baffling.

[Kilokaai]

I know it's popular to hate on Kyrou in this thread, but the first 10 games of the season he was generating more than anyone on the team. Last night he looked terrible no two ways about that but lets pump the breaks and act like a 6-1 loss is on Kyrou. It hasn't been a trend this season regardless of what everyone is proclaiming, the team has been dreadful for majority of the games so far.

The hate on here is just crazy since everyone wants to be the first/most zealous hater to be right, there is no chance that one player has this level of effect on a team. It's just is not possible, a game from the press box is fine but it's hilarious that you all think benching him is somehow going to make the team more effective at playing defense on all defensive parings and forward lines he is not on.

The Blues will score less full stop with Kyrou not being in the lineup, if you are tanking that is fine. If you plan on winning hockey games you need his points, its that simple. Effort/willpower/desire is just irrelevant if the puck is hitting twine and the whole team can't find the back of the net so everyone needs a scapegoat.

Edit: Just to add since everyone says Kyrou is a cancer, imagine how fragile of a room you have when everyone is "upset" that Kyrou isn't laying his body out when he has done nothing but collect points even when the team was struggling over the last 5-6 seasons. I'd argue they are just as guilty at being sulkers as Kyrou for being directly implicated. If Kyrou needs to man up the team should as well, if someone is upset that Kyrou is making 8 million dollars a year then they should start figuring out ways for people to believe they could score 40 goals in a season.

[seattleblue]

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

Whereas I look it as you have an asset and are in positions of power and due to emotion and other variables, you publicly treat that asset poorly which only serves to hurt your organization.

My feelings aside on Kyrou, the Blues have handled him very, very poorly, which to me is the much bigger problem for the organization.

Well, if it meant that they're also going to mishandle other talented players because of something systematic, then it is a bigger problem, but I don't feel persuaded they have mishandled other prospects systematically. Kyrou helped the Blues mishandle him at a minimum. If it's truly evidence of a pattern and rot, we should have seen that throughout the 2010s with Armstrong and we should be seeing it now with Snuggerud, Dvorsky, etc. I don't think it happened with Thomas. Is it happening with Broberg? Neighbours? Holloway? these are other first round talents certainly in Kyrou's pedigree range.

[Kilokaai]

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

Whereas I look it as you have an asset and are in positions of power and due to emotion and other variables, you publicly treat that asset poorly which only serves to hurt your organization.

My feelings aside on Kyrou, the Blues have handled him very, very poorly, which to me is the much bigger problem for the organization.

Well, if it meant that they're also going to mishandle other talented players because of something systematic, then it is a bigger problem, but I don't feel persuaded they have mishandled other prospects systematically. Kyrou helped the Blues mishandle him at a minimum. If it's truly evidence of a pattern and rot, we should have seen that throughout the 2010s with Armstrong and we should be seeing it now with Snuggerud, Dvorsky, etc. I don't think it happened with Thomas. Is it happening with Broberg? Neighbours? Holloway? these are other first round talents certainly in Kyrou's pedigree range.

The problem is that Kyrou isn't a special case in my opinion, off the top of my head Pierre Luc Debois, Patrik Laine, and Johnathan Huberdeau come to mind as some players that have the same question marks with similar expectations (and salaries). Hell you might even be able to toss in David Perron there too before he left STL the first time.

IMO this just happens sometimes, maturation is a process it happens later for some than others. I don't fault the Blues for looking at the data and saying this makes sense and being surprised that the 2-way game is a little slow. I hate scapegoating in team sports though, it will always rub me the wrong way. There are so few players in this league who are literal instant offense without dependency.

[theograce]

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

Whereas I look it as you have an asset and are in positions of power and due to emotion and other variables, you publicly treat that asset poorly which only serves to hurt your organization.

My feelings aside on Kyrou, the Blues have handled him very, very poorly, which to me is the much bigger problem for the organization.

Well, if it meant that they're also going to mishandle other talented players because of something systematic, then it is a bigger problem, but I don't feel persuaded they have mishandled other prospects systematically. Kyrou helped the Blues mishandle him at a minimum. If it's truly evidence of a pattern and rot, we should have seen that throughout the 2010s with Armstrong and we should be seeing it now with Snuggerud, Dvorsky, etc. I don't think it happened with Thomas. Is it happening with Broberg? Neighbours? Holloway? these are other first round talents certainly in Kyrou's pedigree range.

There’s been other examples. Both Perron and Pietrangelo were treated very poorly. Pietrangelo, in particular. Armstrong crossed the line and disrespected one of the best players to ever wear that jersey.

But the point remains. I believe they have systematically reduced 1) the asset and 2) the potential return for that asset, while also picking away at culture.

Armstrong needed to be fired a long time ago. He’s lost control and his decisions, behavior and vision have hurt the organization. Ego … emotion … lots of things got in the way for him.

[bgwinn01]

Oh, all these poor, put upon millionaire players. Whatever are they to do ?! Addition by subtraction with these dilittantes.

[dp88]

Kyrou being the organizations scapegoat again. Majority of players on roster deserve scratches over him. Like this is suddenly going to make your goalies be able to stop a beach ball. League worst goaltending duo this year is the primary issue. Offense and Defense confidence comes from being able to rely on your goalies you can't rely on either of Binnington or Hofer this year.

[Kilokaai]

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

Whereas I look it as you have an asset and are in positions of power and due to emotion and other variables, you publicly treat that asset poorly which only serves to hurt your organization.

My feelings aside on Kyrou, the Blues have handled him very, very poorly, which to me is the much bigger problem for the organization.

Well, if it meant that they're also going to mishandle other talented players because of something systematic, then it is a bigger problem, but I don't feel persuaded they have mishandled other prospects systematically. Kyrou helped the Blues mishandle him at a minimum. If it's truly evidence of a pattern and rot, we should have seen that throughout the 2010s with Armstrong and we should be seeing it now with Snuggerud, Dvorsky, etc. I don't think it happened with Thomas. Is it happening with Broberg? Neighbours? Holloway? these are other first round talents certainly in Kyrou's pedigree range.

There’s been other examples. Both Perron and Pietrangelo were treated very poorly. Pietrangelo, in particular. Armstrong crossed the line and disrespected one of the best players to ever wear that jersey.

But the point remains. I believe they have systematically reduced 1) the asset and 2) the potential return for that asset, while also picking away at culture.

Armstrong needed to be fired a long time ago. He’s lost control and his decisions, behavior and vision have hurt the organization. Ego … emotion … lots of things got in the way for him.

I agree with your points, but not the conclusion. At no point have they been dealing from a place of advantage with Kyrou and they are not helping themselves in this situation.

I still think back to Berube basically tanking all value for the core players when we were struggling a few years ago. That interview still bothers me as the complete wrong way to go about it. That is how fans react, not professionals.

[netboy65]

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

Whereas I look it as you have an asset and are in positions of power and due to emotion and other variables, you publicly treat that asset poorly which only serves to hurt your organization.

My feelings aside on Kyrou, the Blues have handled him very, very poorly, which to me is the much bigger problem for the organization.

Well, if it meant that they're also going to mishandle other talented players because of something systematic, then it is a bigger problem, but I don't feel persuaded they have mishandled other prospects systematically. Kyrou helped the Blues mishandle him at a minimum. If it's truly evidence of a pattern and rot, we should have seen that throughout the 2010s with Armstrong and we should be seeing it now with Snuggerud, Dvorsky, etc. I don't think it happened with Thomas. Is it happening with Broberg? Neighbours? Holloway? these are other first round talents certainly in Kyrou's pedigree range.

There’s been other examples. Both Perron and Pietrangelo were treated very poorly. Pietrangelo, in particular. Armstrong crossed the line and disrespected one of the best players to ever wear that jersey.

But the point remains. I believe they have systematically reduced 1) the asset and 2) the potential return for that asset, while also picking away at culture.

Armstrong needed to be fired a long time ago. He’s lost control and his decisions, behavior and vision have hurt the organization. Ego … emotion … lots of things got in the way for him.

No. No they weren’t. Perron wanted to test FA, so he did. We were just supposed to wait around?
Petro was always going to leave. Let’s be realistic.

[theograce]

Kyrou being the organizations scapegoat again. Majority of players on roster deserve scratches over him. Like this is suddenly going to make your goalies be able to stop a beach ball. League worst goaltending duo this year is the primary issue. Offense and Defense confidence comes from being able to rely on your goalies you can't rely on either of Binnington or Hofer this year.

They don’t like Kyrou. He doesn’t like them.

They are stuck in a bad relationship

[theograce]

We're just focused on different things. The reason I focus on the player in this situation is the "necessary but not sufficient" aspect. Had the Blues "handled" him better, that may have been necessary to achieve a better outcome, but it would never have been sufficient.

Whereas. Consider the contra - let's say Kyrou was a born competitor, someone who dug in when the going got tough, but the Blues still didn't handle him well. He would at some point shine through with a new coach, or he will go to his next team and show everyone the heart of a champion and prove everyone wrong. The problem is he's proving it out of reaction to being criticized, not because it's inherent in him to be mortified about being in this healthy scratch position. I don't worry for one second that Kyrou's taking anyone else to a Cup. You don't fear guys like this, they aren't going to beat you when that final clock is counting down.

As far as has Armstrong shown himself to have shrewd judgment sticking with this player and building on him and the statements he has made about him ... we agree Armstrong has a ton to be criticized with following up the Cup era with the Kyrou/Krug/Faulk/Newly Extended Buchnevich era. That is a lot of self ownage to overcome.

Whereas I look it as you have an asset and are in positions of power and due to emotion and other variables, you publicly treat that asset poorly which only serves to hurt your organization.

My feelings aside on Kyrou, the Blues have handled him very, very poorly, which to me is the much bigger problem for the organization.

Well, if it meant that they're also going to mishandle other talented players because of something systematic, then it is a bigger problem, but I don't feel persuaded they have mishandled other prospects systematically. Kyrou helped the Blues mishandle him at a minimum. If it's truly evidence of a pattern and rot, we should have seen that throughout the 2010s with Armstrong and we should be seeing it now with Snuggerud, Dvorsky, etc. I don't think it happened with Thomas. Is it happening with Broberg? Neighbours? Holloway? these are other first round talents certainly in Kyrou's pedigree range.

There’s been other examples. Both Perron and Pietrangelo were treated very poorly. Pietrangelo, in particular. Armstrong crossed the line and disrespected one of the best players to ever wear that jersey.

But the point remains. I believe they have systematically reduced 1) the asset and 2) the potential return for that asset, while also picking away at culture.

Armstrong needed to be fired a long time ago. He’s lost control and his decisions, behavior and vision have hurt the organization. Ego … emotion … lots of things got in the way for him.

I agree with your points, but not the conclusion. At no point have they been dealing from a place of advantage with Kyrou and they are not helping themselves in this situation.

I still think back to Berube basically tanking all value for the core players when we were struggling a few years ago. That interview still bothers me as the complete wrong way to go about it. That is how fans react, not professionals.

If Berube wasn’t Armstrong’s friend and had won a cup, he would have been fired much earlier. What he did was pathetic and far from leadership.