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Re: Have we have transitioned from
Posted: 26 Oct 2025 17:00 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 13:04 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 12:32 pm
rockondlouie wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:51 am
BDWJr = Baseball Man
BDWIII aka Fredo = Business Man
BDWJr knows baseball front & back, Fredo only seems interested in the business side and lacks his fathers enthusiasm for the game.
BDWJr loves baseball ala ABJr.
BDWIII aka Fredo reminds me of ABIII who had no interest in the Cardinals or baseball.
I'd bet anyone BDWIII sells the team after Big Bill leaves this world.
I agree with everything except maybe the last one. If he’s making a modest profit regardless if the team is a joke, he’ll probably still hold and collect.
You hit the nail on the head in the comparison between Jr and the III though.
Melville might be a controversial poster, but when he said the Cardinals have become a marketing company with a baseball department, it is 100% accurate and directly attributed to BDWIII.
Well if they are a marketing company they are awful at it
They must’ve overlooked that if the team sucks too bad fans might actually become ashamed of the brand.
Re: Have we have transitioned from
Posted: 26 Oct 2025 17:04 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 13:08 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 12:56 pm
mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 12:43 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 12:23 pm
I don’t understand why so many think a rebuild can’t include spending and trading in concurrence with the revamping of player development.
Because significant spending in baseball always involves making long term commitments. Significant veteran players are going to sign for, or carry with them, 3, 5, 7, 10+ year contracts.
If you are not ready to compete now (and the Cardinals aren't), why commit yourself to guys now who (1) you may not need or (2) may get significantly worse when you are ready to compete again in 3, 5, etc. years?
The holes we filled with experienced journeyman players from the Rasmus trade did not entail long term commitment. The Lackey trade did not hamstring our payroll for years on end. The Matt Holiday deal was not earth shattering expensive to a billionaire owner who had a loyal paying fanbase.
Why is spending always equated to decades-long monster mega deals? There is a sensible middle ground.
Journeyman players on short deals are not the solution for the current state of the team. If you don't have a solid base to start from, that just gets you to a lower grade of mediocre.
So the only choices are Ohtani-priced free agents or cheap useless [shirt] players?
Re: Have we have transitioned from
Posted: 26 Oct 2025 17:13 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 15:06 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 12:56 pmThe holes we filled with experienced journeyman players from the Rasmus trade did not entail long term commitment. The Lackey trade did not hamstring our payroll for years on end. The Matt Holiday deal was not earth shattering expensive to a billionaire owner who had a loyal paying fanbase.
Why is spending always equated to decades-long monster mega deals? There is a sensible middle ground.
You can understand the state of the team back in those years compared to now, right? They were drafting and developing well back in those days. Those teams were all pretty good teams that needed a piece here or there to put the, over the top.
We need to get back to that point to where moves like that make sense.
Why can’t the lottery ticket inexperienced prospects be the “pieces here or there”? I could understand if we had an inflated 220 million payroll and a 100-loss team to start with, but we don’t.
A good RH outfielder and two solid starters would create a situation where a Wetherholt, and some improvement from a few young players already on hand get us back in the mix.
Re: Have we have transitioned from
Posted: 26 Oct 2025 17:27 pm
by icon
What is at great risk here -- and this was discussed at length in a previous thread -- is the fan apathy we have seen this year carrying over into who knows how many more years before the team can be close to competitive again.
Many fans who have found other things to do with their time and money may never return. In my social circle -- and I'm a baseball-loving Boomer -- I hear fewer and fewer people even mention the Cardinals anymore, and when they do, it's not positive. They are at risk of becoming irrelevant. I didn't watch many games this year on TV. And I didn't go to one. The team is boring with a play-not-to-lose manager. And good luck creating new fans.
Re: Have we have transitioned from
Posted: 26 Oct 2025 17:44 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 15:18 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 12:23 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:33 am
I just…I….
It really surprises me how seemingly engaged baseball fans can’t understand the most modest of rebuilds and how this org obviously needs a reset.
I don’t understand why so many think a rebuild can’t include spending and trading in concurrence with the revamping of player development.
We can win faster with all wheels turning together. You don’t have to lose and lose and lose some more to eventually hopefully one day maybe build a winner again. You try your (donkey) off from every single angle every single year. If BDW isn’t fully committed to winning then he should sell the [fork]ing team to someone who cares.
Well, you can sign people, but you don't make 'win now' trades.
I wouldn’t sign any player that I don’t believe improves the winning percentage right now. This new weird expectation we go from big time losers to on-paper champions before we even dare to try and win makes no sense.
A team full of young players won’t win when integrated and conditioned in a losing environment. They need solid professionals to learn from and to push them into survival mode. They should feel the pressure to take those jobs and force their way into being a core player.
Too many young guys coming up and loitering and just happy to be here and aren’t contributing jack [shirt] to the legacy of this franchise. This youth movement isn’t going to work by itself so why wait?
Create that high competitive environment right now and guarantee them nothing and watch them play like their livelihood depends on it. Bet you won’t see hardheads not listening to the coaches and doing the same stupid [shirt] over and over again. That alone would equal 10+ wins.
Re: Have we have transitioned from
Posted: 26 Oct 2025 17:57 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
icon wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 17:27 pm
What is at great risk here -- and this was discussed at length in a previous thread -- is the fan apathy we have seen this year carrying over into who knows how many more years before the team can be close to competitive again.
Many fans who have found other things to do with their time and money may never return. In my social circle -- and I'm a baseball-loving Boomer -- I hear fewer and fewer people even mention the Cardinals anymore, and when they do, it's not positive. They are at risk of becoming irrelevant. I didn't watch many games this year on TV. And I didn't go to one. The team is boring with a play-not-to-lose manager. And good luck creating new fans.
This is very true and happening. The game is supposed to be entertaining and fun to watch even if you don’t win it all.
The Reds might not have been good enough to go all the way, but neither were the Yankees, or the Brewers with the best record in baseball. But those Reds fans had a blast there for a few months while we watched meaningless baseball for a third straight year.
Re: Have we have transitioned from
Posted: 26 Oct 2025 18:04 pm
by 82birds
icon wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 17:27 pm
What is at great risk here -- and this was discussed at length in a previous thread -- is the fan apathy we have seen this year carrying over into who knows how many more years before the team can be close to competitive again.
Many fans who have found other things to do with their time and money may never return. In my social circle -- and I'm a baseball-loving Boomer -- I hear fewer and fewer people even mention the Cardinals anymore, and when they do, it's not positive. They are at risk of becoming irrelevant. I didn't watch many games this year on TV. And I didn't go to one. The team is boring with a play-not-to-lose manager. And good luck creating new fans.
stated very well, icon
Re: Have we have transitioned from
Posted: 26 Oct 2025 18:19 pm
by ecleme22
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 17:44 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 15:18 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 12:23 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:33 am
I just…I….
It really surprises me how seemingly engaged baseball fans can’t understand the most modest of rebuilds and how this org obviously needs a reset.
I don’t understand why so many think a rebuild can’t include spending and trading in concurrence with the revamping of player development.
We can win faster with all wheels turning together. You don’t have to lose and lose and lose some more to eventually hopefully one day maybe build a winner again. You try your (donkey) off from every single angle every single year. If BDW isn’t fully committed to winning then he should sell the [fork]ing team to someone who cares.
Well, you can sign people, but you don't make 'win now' trades.
I wouldn’t sign any player that I don’t believe improves the winning percentage right now. This new weird expectation we go from big time losers to on-paper champions before we even dare to try and win makes no sense.
A team full of young players won’t win when integrated and conditioned in a losing environment. They need solid professionals to learn from and to push them into survival mode. They should feel the pressure to take those jobs and force their way into being a core player.
Too many young guys coming up and loitering and just happy to be here and aren’t contributing jack [shirt] to the legacy of this franchise. This youth movement isn’t going to work by itself so why wait?
Create that high competitive environment right now and guarantee them nothing and watch them play like their livelihood depends on it. Bet you won’t see hardheads not listening to the coaches and doing the same stupid [shirt] over and over again. That alone would equal 10+ wins.
Well of course you sign players to help you now. But they would be short term deals and flippable candidates.
Re: Have we have transitioned from
Posted: 26 Oct 2025 18:34 pm
by CorneliusWolfe
ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 18:19 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 17:44 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 15:18 pm
CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 12:23 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Oct 2025 11:33 am
I just…I….
It really surprises me how seemingly engaged baseball fans can’t understand the most modest of rebuilds and how this org obviously needs a reset.
I don’t understand why so many think a rebuild can’t include spending and trading in concurrence with the revamping of player development.
We can win faster with all wheels turning together. You don’t have to lose and lose and lose some more to eventually hopefully one day maybe build a winner again. You try your (donkey) off from every single angle every single year. If BDW isn’t fully committed to winning then he should sell the [fork]ing team to someone who cares.
Well, you can sign people, but you don't make 'win now' trades.
I wouldn’t sign any player that I don’t believe improves the winning percentage right now. This new weird expectation we go from big time losers to on-paper champions before we even dare to try and win makes no sense.
A team full of young players won’t win when integrated and conditioned in a losing environment. They need solid professionals to learn from and to push them into survival mode. They should feel the pressure to take those jobs and force their way into being a core player.
Too many young guys coming up and loitering and just happy to be here and aren’t contributing jack [shirt] to the legacy of this franchise. This youth movement isn’t going to work by itself so why wait?
Create that high competitive environment right now and guarantee them nothing and watch them play like their livelihood depends on it. Bet you won’t see hardheads not listening to the coaches and doing the same stupid [shirt] over and over again. That alone would equal 10+ wins.
Well of course you sign players to help you now. But they would be short term deals and flippable candidates.
“Flippable” infers value, I can get behind that. It means the player can actually hold his own and do his part on a contender, and if the team fails to contend, there is return value so long as he’s indeed a solid productive player. Not saying MVP candidate, but a good experienced professional, like Maton and Kittredge were out of the bullpen recently.
I think too many misinterpret that I want to sign either 10 year mega deal guys or scrubs.