How does bloom rebuild revenues and enterprise value and protect the fan base if we aren’t competing until a new CBA?

[Bomber1]

2026 is a throwaway season at MLB level

BDW digging in his heels in for 2027 lockout, he might sell after other owners cave to MLBPA

That could be another fatal mistake. It’s a lot easier to keep a customer/fan that it is to gain a new one after you’ve lost one.

If Bill throws away another season and loses more fans, he’s risking a death spiral.

I think by now everyone understands that you believe the organization should invest in top Free Agents this offseason.

You are going to be disappointed.

So, you suggest competing with the Dodgers, Mets, etc. in the open FA market?

I never said nor did I suggest any such thing.

Do you bother to read previous posts before responding?

[Bomber1]

If II & III continue to go beggar thy fans in ‘26, they will getexactly what they richly deserve attendancewise.

Expenses need to match or be less than revenues. Just like with any business.

Yet, the Cardinals were more profitable when they spent more on players. Losing a million fans really decreases revenues, no?

They spent on Goldy and Arenado. How’d that work out?

They had many sell outs.

And how many playoff wins?

What is your deal Cranny?

You have told us forever those 2 trades were fantastic. You used those trades as examples of how awesome Mozeliak was.

Everybody else told you that the lazy Mozeliak couldn’t be bothered to finish the job by filling the glaring holes that remained after these trades.

Your response to those people was: “Haven’t the Cardinals won 90 games in 3 of the last 5 full seasons?”

Now you’re lamenting those trades because they didn’t result in postseason wins?

Stop being a clown.

[Cranny]

If II & III continue to go beggar thy fans in ‘26, they will getexactly what they richly deserve attendancewise.

Expenses need to match or be less than revenues. Just like with any business.

Yet, the Cardinals were more profitable when they spent more on players. Losing a million fans really decreases revenues, no?

They spent on Goldy and Arenado. How’d that work out?

They had many sell outs.

And how many playoff wins?

What is your deal Cranny?

You have told us forever those 2 trades were fantastic. You used those trades as examples of how awesome Mozeliak was.

Everybody else told you that the lazy Mozeliak couldn’t be bothered to finish the job by filling the glaring holes that remained after these trades.

Your response to those people was: “Haven’t the Cardinals won 90 games in 3 of the last 5 full seasons?”

Now you’re lamenting those trades because they didn’t result in postseason wins?

Stop being a clown.

Actually, Bomber, I was responding to my old friend Red. Appreciate your post, though.

[mattmitchl44]

If we keep losing this could grow to 1.4 or 1.6m many of them might never come back which could prevent us from ever having enough revenue to spend on the free agents or extend the keepers that we need to actually win once we decide we are ready.

The fans came back in Houston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, etc. after they went through a multi-year rebuild and came out better for it.

Are Cardinals fans worse fans than Astros, Phillies, or Braves fans?

And, yes, the owners should be prepared to increase spending one year before they see a real uptick in attendance again.

Just a caveat... those are all big cities. St Louis is dying.

Well there is not much to be done about that.

[mattmitchl44]

If we keep losing this could grow to 1.4 or 1.6m many of them might never come back which could prevent us from ever having enough revenue to spend on the free agents or extend the keepers that we need to actually win once we decide we are ready.

The fans came back in Houston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, etc. after they went through a multi-year rebuild and came out better for it.

Are Cardinals fans worse fans than Astros, Phillies, or Braves fans?

And, yes, the owners should be prepared to increase spending one year before they see a real uptick in attendance again.

Those are much bigger cities, which have the ability to draw casual fans from their massive MSAs by creating any level of excitment. STL has a much deeper ingrained fan base, but clearly they can be driven away, and I'm not convinced they will automatically come back. And we don't have structural population growth that can be convinced to become new fans to replace the ones lost. Hou and ATL are 2 of the fastest growing cities this century.

You can choose to be convinced of whatever you want to be convinced of.

There is certainly no proof that Cardinals fans won't come back to 3+ million in attendance when the competitiveness of the team is on the upswing again.

[mattmitchl44]

If we keep losing this could grow to 1.4 or 1.6m many of them might never come back which could prevent us from ever having enough revenue to spend on the free agents or extend the keepers that we need to actually win once we decide we are ready.

The fans came back in Houston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, etc. after they went through a multi-year rebuild and came out better for it.

Are Cardinals fans worse fans than Astros, Phillies, or Braves fans?

And, yes, the owners should be prepared to increase spending one year before they see a real uptick in attendance again.

Those teams rebuilt before the days of the mega payrolls. It's much harder to rebuild now and compete afterward with a much lower payroll than a team like the Dodgers. And those teams spent money after rebuilding. Do you really have confidence that BDW Jr. or his idiot son will spend more after a rebuild before fans have returned? I don't.

Triple Sticks has even said that if fans don't show up, payroll will be reduced. And that has happened. So how are the fans going to come back before the product on the field gets better? And how is the product on the field going to get better if fans don't show up? This franchise under this ownership is now chasing its tail.

As I clearly noted above - the owners should be prepared to increase spending one year before they see a real uptick in attendance again.

- You accept that attendance is going to fall off to ~1.5-2.0 million as they go through another 1, 2, etc. years of rebuilding. Let's say attendance is 1.5 million in 2027.
- But in 2027, the Cardinals have assembled a critical mass of young talent that has gotten them back to 81-81 that season.
- The owners should be ready to spend in the offseason after 2027, add some FA talent to plug holes on the roster, and expect to be a 90 win team again in 2028.
- If that happens, attendance rebounds to 2.25 or 2.5 million in 2028.
- Then they spend to keep the success going in 2029 and attendance come back up to 3 million in 2029.

[Imperial Capitalist]

So far Moe and BTW, have hemorrhaged 1 million fans from our annual run rate. If we keep losing this could grow to 1.4 or 1.6m many of them might never come back which could prevent us from ever having enough revenue to spend on the free agents or extend the keepers that we need to actually win once we decide we are ready.

Fans aren’t going to buy MLB tickets just because we upgrade our scouting and minors development. Or even just because Mo is gone. It doesn’t help that we refuse to promote exciting prospects in 2025 like JJW just so we can play 40 man roster games when 12 of his draft class have already made the Bigs. Keeping the unpopular Marmol doesn’t help either, and doesn’t save a material amount of money. Trading Willson or Gray for junk (salary relief and then not replacing them on The MLB roster) isn’t going to help - marginal ballpark fans actually like watching former Allstars who win 14+ games or hit 20 HRs and don’t like watching bullpen games. They aren’t what’s keeping fans away.

We are t ever going to win 90 (or much less 100) games with a minimum wage roster of draftees and prospects we downgraded thru trades for, not matter how good our development system gets. (And even if we did - They wouldn’t win in the playoffs because they would have zero experience playing in October and that experience is the most valuable and underrated factor that determines winners). To win We need to supplement heavily with the right veterans and be willing to spend. But if Bloom doesn’t maintain the fan base in the short term, where will that spending ever come from?

Instead he needs to come up with a hybrid path forward and stop all thoughts of tanking. Spend enough on some level of star power at areas of need (we can certainly afford some upgrades now if we don’t wait too long), maybe more popular, experienced and well known coaching staff. And try to win enough to get into the playoffs.

We don’t have to win a pennant in year 1, but we do need to start accumulating October experience and earn some valuable revenue from those extra ticket sales. Momentum is a real thing when if comes to revenue and cash management - the more you win the more you earn and can afford to win more, but it has to all start with a willingness to invest sooner rather than later and not wait until it’s too late to be able to spend. And we can do all this without sacrificing anything significant in our new minor league process.

Some facts for your consideration.

Pittsburgh Pirates W-L and attendance history

1985 - 57-104, 736,000 fans.
1990 - 95-67 & 2.05 million fans. (peak years of Leyland, Bonds, and Bonilla)
1991 - 98-64 & 2.06 million fans. (ditto)

2010 - 57-105 & 1.6 million fans
2012 - 79-83 & 2.1 million (Andrew McCutchen "era" taking root)
2013 - 94-68 & 2.26 million
2014 - 88-74 & 2.44 million
2015 - 98-64 & 2.50 million

2019 - 69-93 & 1.50 million

The fans of that franchise have known more misery and heartache than any Cardinal fan has in recent memory. Yet, as demonstrated over 40 years of history, fans have shown they will return to the ballpark when the play of their team justifies it....and stay home (relatively speaking) when the play is abysmal.

Perhaps you should appreciate these facts before making your next 20 posts on this same subject.

[Bomber1]

If II & III continue to go beggar thy fans in ‘26, they will getexactly what they richly deserve attendancewise.

Expenses need to match or be less than revenues. Just like with any business.

Yet, the Cardinals were more profitable when they spent more on players. Losing a million fans really decreases revenues, no?

They spent on Goldy and Arenado. How’d that work out?

They had many sell outs.

And how many playoff wins?

What is your deal Cranny?

You have told us forever those 2 trades were fantastic. You used those trades as examples of how awesome Mozeliak was.

Everybody else told you that the lazy Mozeliak couldn’t be bothered to finish the job by filling the glaring holes that remained after these trades.

Your response to those people was: “Haven’t the Cardinals won 90 games in 3 of the last 5 full seasons?”

Now you’re lamenting those trades because they didn’t result in postseason wins?

Stop being a clown.

Actually, Bomber, I was responding to my old friend Red. Appreciate your post, though.

I knew you wouldn’t respond regarding the abrupt 180 degree turn you’ve taken.

But hopefully your “old friend Red” also realizes what a clown you’re being.

Appreciate your post too.

[Banner29]

If II & III continue to go beggar thy fans in ‘26, they will getexactly what they richly deserve attendancewise.

Expenses need to match or be less than revenues. Just like with any business.

Yet, the Cardinals were more profitable when they spent more on players. Losing a million fans really decreases revenues, no?

They spent on Goldy and Arenado. How’d that work out?

They had many sell outs.

And how many playoff wins?

What is your deal Cranny?

You have told us forever those 2 trades were fantastic. You used those trades as examples of how awesome Mozeliak was.

Everybody else told you that the lazy Mozeliak couldn’t be bothered to finish the job by filling the glaring holes that remained after these trades.

Your response to those people was: “Haven’t the Cardinals won 90 games in 3 of the last 5 full seasons?”

Now you’re lamenting those trades because they didn’t result in postseason wins?

Stop being a clown.

He loves to move the goalposts

[IndCard75]

Here's what's going to happen:

Thay will trade:
1. Gray
2. Arenado
3. Willson (maybo)
4. Donovan (maybe)
5. Burleson (maybe)
6. Gorman (maybe)

With that, they will get some salary relief and add prospects. The best prospects they can get. They will be used for either future MLB prospects or trade bait. Also, they will grab 2-3 starters in FA to flip at the deadline and to eat innings.

From there, the team (along with the 2023 and 2025 sell off) will have prospects to to test on the MLB roster.

By 2027, the team will know what they have. Maybe they trade more at the 2026 TDL and the offseason.

By 2027, they will spend money.

It's not that hard to understand. I think, coupled with Bloom remaking the minors and the team being in a quasi rebuild for the last three years, it will flip around really soon (2027) to where we start becoming really competitive again...

JMO.

I agree and I don’t understand how baseball fans can’t see this and understand this. Quick fixes are not the way to go long term.
Spending money just to say we spent money is part of the reason we are in the position we are in now. Personally I will still go to games next year. You can find tickets at a reasonable price.
I’m looking forward to seeing young players given an opportunity.

One thing I would suggest to ownership though is offer more entertainment and promotions to try get more fans to the ballpark.
Whether that’s music/bands before and after the game. Discount tickets. I live close to Indianapolis, the AAA team has fireworks every Friday night I believe. Ownership needs to make going to the game exciting.

Good for you. I live a lot further away, as do a lot of Cardinals fans. So I'll go watch them 1-3 times at Coors, but I'm not going to travel to STL to watch a team of minimum wage Nootbaars and Gormans. But if we upgrade enough to make the playoffs, I would definately try to fly in for a series - and I'd probably need to buy a new hat/Jersey. That's just the economics of a distributed fan base.

I live 3 hours from StL. Still went to 3 games this past season.

[rockondlouie]

If we keep losing this could grow to 1.4 or 1.6m many of them might never come back which could prevent us from ever having enough revenue to spend on the free agents or extend the keepers that we need to actually win once we decide we are ready.

The fans came back in Houston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, etc. after they went through a multi-year rebuild and came out better for it.

Are Cardinals fans worse fans than Astros, Phillies, or Braves fans?

And, yes, the owners should be prepared to increase spending one year before they see a real uptick in attendance again.

Those teams rebuilt before the days of the mega payrolls. It's much harder to rebuild now and compete afterward with a much lower payroll than a team like the Dodgers. And those teams spent money after rebuilding. Do you really have confidence that BDW Jr. or his idiot son will spend more after a rebuild before fans have returned? I don't.

Triple Sticks has even said that if fans don't show up, payroll will be reduced. And that has happened. So how are the fans going to come back before the product on the field gets better? And how is the product on the field going to get better if fans don't show up? This franchise under this ownership is now chasing its tail.

As I clearly noted above - the owners should be prepared to increase spending one year before they see a real uptick in attendance again.

- You accept that attendance is going to fall off to ~1.5-2.0 million as they go through another 1, 2, etc. years of rebuilding. Let's say attendance is 1.5 million in 2027.
- But in 2027, the Cardinals have assembled a critical mass of young talent that has gotten them back to 81-81 that season.
- The owners should be ready to spend in the offseason after 2027, add some FA talent to plug holes on the roster, and expect to be a 90 win team again in 2028.
- If that happens, attendance rebounds to 2.25 or 2.5 million in 2028.
- Then they spend to keep the success going in 2029 and attendance come back up to 3 million in 2029.

Your timeline assumes BDWJr (85 yrs old in 2026) is still around.

I believe he would up payroll back to the $180+M range even before attendance reaches 3M, I have little faith Fredo (aka BDWIII) would.

[Cranny]

If II & III continue to go beggar thy fans in ‘26, they will getexactly what they richly deserve attendancewise.

Expenses need to match or be less than revenues. Just like with any business.

Yet, the Cardinals were more profitable when they spent more on players. Losing a million fans really decreases revenues, no?

They spent on Goldy and Arenado. How’d that work out?

They had many sell outs.

And how many playoff wins?

What is your deal Cranny?

You have told us forever those 2 trades were fantastic. You used those trades as examples of how awesome Mozeliak was.

Everybody else told you that the lazy Mozeliak couldn’t be bothered to finish the job by filling the glaring holes that remained after these trades.

Your response to those people was: “Haven’t the Cardinals won 90 games in 3 of the last 5 full seasons?”

Now you’re lamenting those trades because they didn’t result in postseason wins?

Stop being a clown.

Actually, Bomber, I was responding to my old friend Red. Appreciate your post, though.

I knew you wouldn’t respond regarding the abrupt 180 degree turn you’ve taken.

But hopefully your “old friend Red” also realizes what a clown you’re being.

Appreciate your post too.

Do you really want to spend this Friday calling someone a clown on an anonymous forum, Bomber? Is that what you want to do with your time?

But in answer to you, yes, I have praised the signings of Ozuna, Goldy, and Arenado. But Goldy and Arenado were putid in the playoffs. And unfortunately, a number of the young Cardinals that were supposed to excel, took steps backward -
Carlson, Walker, Gorman, etc. Plus, a number of July trades resulted in guys who hurt their arms. I've been consistent on all of those things, so I don't know what your "problem" is that would result in your childish name calling.

[mattmitchl44]

The fans of that franchise have known more misery and heartache than any Cardinal fan has in recent memory. Yet, as demonstrated over 40 years of history, fans have shown they will return to the ballpark when the play of their team justifies it....and stay home (relatively speaking) when the play is abysmal.

Yes, people are just fabricating a future concern to justify what they want in the present - for the team to spend more money now to be mediocre.

You can look at other examples:

The Royals were bad from 2004 to 2012, winning between 56 and 75 games a season during that period. They had attendance between 1.4 and 1.8 million every year. Then in 2013 they win 86 games, but still have attendance of 1.8 million. In 2014, they win 89 games, go to the WS, and attendance comes to 2.0 million. In 2015, they win 95 games, win the WS, and attendance is 2.7 million. Then attendance drops off to 2.6, 2.2, and 1.7 million in 2016-2018 as their winning drops off.

But the key to keeping attendance up is to have sustained success, and the Cardinals organization isn't yet in a place where they can have sustained success. In a year or two, if they make good decisions now and rebuild their pipeline of young talent, they will hopefully be in a place where they can have 90+ win team most years starting in 2027 or 2028 and bring 3+ million fans back to the stadium annually.

[mattmitchl44]

If you actually look at the history of Cardinals attendance, it has probably shown more resiliency through some down years more than most:

From 1969 to 1981, the Cardinals missed the playoffs every year. They won between 69 and 90 games a year and had attendance between 1.2 and 1.8 million per year over those seasons (excluding the shortened 1981).

They win 92 games and the WS in 1982 and attendance jumps to 2.1 million.

In 1983 and 1984, they only win 79 and 84 games. But attendance holds at 2.3 and 2.0 million.

In 1985, they win 101 games and go to the WS. Attendance shoots to 2.6 million.

In 1986, they fallback to 79 wins. Attendance holds at 2.5 million.

In 1987, they win 95 games and go to the WS. Attendance jumps to 3.1 million.

From 1988 to 1995, they miss the playoffs every year, but winning 70 to 87 games attendance is still 2.4 to 3.1 million (excluding the shortened 1994) until 1995 (62 wins) when it finally drops to 1.8 million.

But in 1996, they win 88 games and attendance immediately jumps again to 2.6 million.

Then from 1997-1999, they only win 73, 83, and 75 games, miss the playoffs, but attendance climbs to 2.5, 3.2, and 3.2 million.

They start their long run of success from 2000-2015 and attendance stays between 2.9 and 3.6 million.

From 2016-2018, they miss the playoffs, but win 86, 83, and 88 games, and attendance holds at 3.4 to 3.5 million.

More trips to the playoffs from 2019-2022 and attendance stays up (around the weirdness of 2020-2021).

Only recently does attendance drop off from 3.2 to 2.9 to 2.3 million.

If anything, I'd say that Cardinals fans show a higher propensity for continuing to attend games even when the team is down for several years in a row and for coming back in droves just as soon as they start winning more games again after they have been down for a bit.

[Dazepster]

He has a huge challenge ahead of him IMO.

Can only speak for myself.

While I will continue to follow The Cards religiously. It will be from afar strictly. I will not put a plum nickel into the team as long as a DeWitt, any DeWitt, has a majority stake in running or owning the team.

Any and all of the Goodwill that Sr had garnered has been misspent and a long time ago.

TBS, his greatest mistake and or sin has been his foisting of his farly strewn from the tree, apple of a son upon us. What a P[ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton] he has proven himself to be. I could forgive him for raising a half wit, it happens all too often. But allowing the half wit to take Center Stage and Gaslight one of the most supportive and forgiving fanbases in all of sports is a Sin Too Great to give him a pass on.

Sell The Team!!!

[Cranny]

He has a huge challenge ahead of him IMO.

Can only speak for myself.

While I will continue to follow The Cards religiously. It will be from afar strictly. I will not put a plum nickel into the team as long as a DeWitt, any DeWitt, has a majority stake in running or owning the team.

Any and all of the Goodwill that Sr had garnered has been misspent and a long time ago.

TBS, his greatest mistake and or sin has been his foisting of his farly strewn from the tree, apple of a son upon us. What a P[ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton] he has proven himself to be. I could forgive him for raising a half wit, it happens all too often. But allowing the half wit to take Center Stage and Gaslight one of the most supportive and forgiving fanbases in all of sports is a Sin Too Great to give him a pass on.

Sell The Team!!!

It's not only BDW's team, Daze. There are other owners involved.