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Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:48 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:41 am Man this is a tough crowd. Scott was a rookie playing in a defective team offense. And he was never plugged in expecting a big bat to start with.

I think there is room for improvement and with the right coaching and team build around him we should see some. How much is unclear. But as mentioned earlier just get on base at .314 and he is worth keeping in CF for excellent defense and so many base hits/walks turned into doubles.

BTW before someone says 314 is too low that is the Cards team average for 2025.

I agree with your appeal for patience. What I didn't see from Scott last year, and need to see is a change in approach. He is never going to be any type of slugger. He could utilize his elite speed if he could get on base. He hasn't demonstrated a willingness to develop the skills needed to bring that about. I think he could- but he hasn't. His major league future could depend on it. If he can't get on base, he could be Siani'd.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 13:21 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:48 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:41 am Man this is a tough crowd. Scott was a rookie playing in a defective team offense. And he was never plugged in expecting a big bat to start with.

I think there is room for improvement and with the right coaching and team build around him we should see some. How much is unclear. But as mentioned earlier just get on base at .314 and he is worth keeping in CF for excellent defense and so many base hits/walks turned into doubles.

BTW before someone says 314 is too low that is the Cards team average for 2025.

I agree with your appeal for patience. What I didn't see from Scott last year, and need to see is a change in approach. He is never going to be any type of slugger. He could utilize his elite speed if he could get on base. He hasn't demonstrated a willingness to develop the skills needed to bring that about. I think he could- but he hasn't. His major league future could depend on it. If he can't get on base, he could be Siani'd.

If he doesn't improve OBP Siani is a good comp.

3dender wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 13:30 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 13:21 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:48 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:41 am Man this is a tough crowd. Scott was a rookie playing in a defective team offense. And he was never plugged in expecting a big bat to start with.

I think there is room for improvement and with the right coaching and team build around him we should see some. How much is unclear. But as mentioned earlier just get on base at .314 and he is worth keeping in CF for excellent defense and so many base hits/walks turned into doubles.

BTW before someone says 314 is too low that is the Cards team average for 2025.

I agree with your appeal for patience. What I didn't see from Scott last year, and need to see is a change in approach. He is never going to be any type of slugger. He could utilize his elite speed if he could get on base. He hasn't demonstrated a willingness to develop the skills needed to bring that about. I think he could- but he hasn't. His major league future could depend on it. If he can't get on base, he could be Siani'd.

If he doesn't improve OBP Siani is a good comp.

In his 1st full year he already beat Siani's career best OPS by 30 points. As disappointing as his bat was this year, he still had over a .300 OBP from a very good 9% walk rate... his OBP was 8th best on the team this year, better than Saggese, Gorman, Arenado, Walker and Pages. Oh yeah and he doesn't turn 25 until next ST.

Siani is not a good comp, Siani is like the absolute floor (or even basement) for Victor Scott. Not sure why it's so hard for people to understand that. Not sure why people are so quick to give up on a guy that provided over 2 WAR as a top-3 defensive CF in the league and stole 34 bases, all in his very first year.

82birds wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 12:37 pm he needs to go to bunting school over the offseason.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:29 am He is Billy Hamilton

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 14:37 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:29 am He is Billy Hamilton

My comp and fear too scouty.

3dender wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 13:30 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 13:21 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:48 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:41 am Man this is a tough crowd. Scott was a rookie playing in a defective team offense. And he was never plugged in expecting a big bat to start with.

I think there is room for improvement and with the right coaching and team build around him we should see some. How much is unclear. But as mentioned earlier just get on base at .314 and he is worth keeping in CF for excellent defense and so many base hits/walks turned into doubles.

BTW before someone says 314 is too low that is the Cards team average for 2025.

I agree with your appeal for patience. What I didn't see from Scott last year, and need to see is a change in approach. He is never going to be any type of slugger. He could utilize his elite speed if he could get on base. He hasn't demonstrated a willingness to develop the skills needed to bring that about. I think he could- but he hasn't. His major league future could depend on it. If he can't get on base, he could be Siani'd.

If he doesn't improve OBP Siani is a good comp.

In his 1st full year he already beat Siani's career best OPS by 30 points. As disappointing as his bat was this year, he still had over a .300 OBP from a very good 9% walk rate... his OBP was 8th best on the team this year, better than Saggese, Gorman, Arenado, Walker and Pages. Oh yeah and he doesn't turn 25 until next ST.

Siani is not a good comp, Siani is like the absolute floor (or even basement) for Victor Scott. Not sure why it's so hard for people to understand that. Not sure why people are so quick to give up on a guy that provided over 2 WAR as a top-3 defensive CF in the league and stole 34 bases, all in his very first year.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 14:02 pm

3dender wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 13:30 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 13:21 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:48 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:41 am Man this is a tough crowd. Scott was a rookie playing in a defective team offense. And he was never plugged in expecting a big bat to start with.

I think there is room for improvement and with the right coaching and team build around him we should see some. How much is unclear. But as mentioned earlier just get on base at .314 and he is worth keeping in CF for excellent defense and so many base hits/walks turned into doubles.

BTW before someone says 314 is too low that is the Cards team average for 2025.

I agree with your appeal for patience. What I didn't see from Scott last year, and need to see is a change in approach. He is never going to be any type of slugger. He could utilize his elite speed if he could get on base. He hasn't demonstrated a willingness to develop the skills needed to bring that about. I think he could- but he hasn't. His major league future could depend on it. If he can't get on base, he could be Siani'd.

If he doesn't improve OBP Siani is a good comp.

In his 1st full year he already beat Siani's career best OPS by 30 points. As disappointing as his bat was this year, he still had over a .300 OBP from a very good 9% walk rate... his OBP was 8th best on the team this year, better than Saggese, Gorman, Arenado, Walker and Pages. Oh yeah and he doesn't turn 25 until next ST.

Siani is not a good comp, Siani is like the absolute floor (or even basement) for Victor Scott. Not sure why it's so hard for people to understand that. Not sure why people are so quick to give up on a guy that provided over 2 WAR as a top-3 defensive CF in the league and stole 34 bases, all in his very first year.

I haven't given up on him.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 16:22 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 14:37 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:29 am He is Billy Hamilton

My comp and fear too scouty.

I don't see that. Hamilton was fast but really that was ALL he was. Scott is a better defender. And while Scott will never be confused with a power hitter they can't knock the bat out of his hands with high velocity. They did it to Hamilton a lot.

I'm willing to give Scott a long look next year to see if he adjusts and as others have mentioned bunt a bit and take advantage of his speed. He doesn't have to do that much more to be an asset every day in CF. STL is OK if up the middle some combination of Bernal/Rodriguez meets projections, JJ and Winn keystone and Scott in CF. That is a group that could gel and be solid on both sides of the ball.

Assuming they trade off Arenado and Contreras (which I think they will try to do) Burleson plays 1B and Herrera DH. The key to all of this is they NEED productive hitters at the corners.

The NEED someone from Gorman, Walker, Saggese, etc to become bats first kind of guys. And better still add a real star like to play 3B or LF. But I'm betting they don't sign much this year looking at a work stoppage and reduced fan support.

Then of course there is the pitching problems to deal with but another day for that.

ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 09:26 am The fixation with thinking improving his bunting will magically make him a valuable enough player to be a productive starter is puzzling.

3dender wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 09:51 am

ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 09:26 am The fixation with thinking improving his bunting will magically make him a valuable enough player to be a productive starter is puzzling.

What's puzzling is that you don't think 2 WAR is a productive starter.

He's already a productive starter at one of the most defensively important positions. The question isn't if he can be "productive" in general it's if he can be productive at the plate, which will make his total production borderline All-Star.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:36 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 16:22 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 14:37 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:29 am He is Billy Hamilton

My comp and fear too scouty.

I don't see that. Hamilton was fast but really that was ALL he was. Scott is a better defender. And while Scott will never be confused with a power hitter they can't knock the bat out of his hands with high velocity. They did it to Hamilton a lot.

I'm willing to give Scott a long look next year to see if he adjusts and as others have mentioned bunt a bit and take advantage of his speed. He doesn't have to do that much more to be an asset every day in CF. STL is OK if up the middle some combination of Bernal/Rodriguez meets projections, JJ and Winn keystone and Scott in CF. That is a group that could gel and be solid on both sides of the ball.

Assuming they trade off Arenado and Contreras (which I think they will try to do) Burleson plays 1B and Herrera DH. The key to all of this is they NEED productive hitters at the corners.

The NEED someone from Gorman, Walker, Saggese, etc to become bats first kind of guys. And better still add a real star like to play 3B or LF. But I'm betting they don't sign much this year looking at a work stoppage and reduced fan support.

Then of course there is the pitching problems to deal with but another day for that.

Well let's see.........

Hamilton age 24 season:

4 HR
57 SB's
.226 .274 .289 .563

VSII age 24 season:

5 HR
34 SB's
.216 .305 .296 .601

And you'd also be wrong stating that "Scott is a better defender":

Hamilton had 22 OAA in 2016 (first year stat was available)
VSII had 16 OAA in 2025

VSII (190 lbs) is much bigger and stronger than the razor thin Hamilton (160 lbs) but their slg%'s are remarkably close in their age 24 seasons while Hamilton was the superior base stealer and defensive CFer.

Unless C. Bloom can come up w/a better option in CF next season, then VSII will get another chance to show he can get on base or he's tossed to the scrap pile like J. Walker & N. Gorman will be if they fail in 2025.

icon wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:27 am But Oli will never let him steal 57 bases. Not in his DNA. He likes to wait for the 3-run HR on a team with little HR power.

icon wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:27 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 08:36 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 16:22 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 14:37 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:29 am He is Billy Hamilton

My comp and fear too scouty.

I don't see that. Hamilton was fast but really that was ALL he was. Scott is a better defender. And while Scott will never be confused with a power hitter they can't knock the bat out of his hands with high velocity. They did it to Hamilton a lot.

I'm willing to give Scott a long look next year to see if he adjusts and as others have mentioned bunt a bit and take advantage of his speed. He doesn't have to do that much more to be an asset every day in CF. STL is OK if up the middle some combination of Bernal/Rodriguez meets projections, JJ and Winn keystone and Scott in CF. That is a group that could gel and be solid on both sides of the ball.

Assuming they trade off Arenado and Contreras (which I think they will try to do) Burleson plays 1B and Herrera DH. The key to all of this is they NEED productive hitters at the corners.

The NEED someone from Gorman, Walker, Saggese, etc to become bats first kind of guys. And better still add a real star like to play 3B or LF. But I'm betting they don't sign much this year looking at a work stoppage and reduced fan support.

Then of course there is the pitching problems to deal with but another day for that.

Well let's see.........

Hamilton age 24 season:

4 HR
57 SB's
.226 .274 .289 .563

VSII age 24 season:

5 HR
34 SB's
.216 .305 .296 .601

And you'd also be wrong stating that "Scott is a better defender":

Hamilton had 22 OAA in 2016 (first year stat was available)
VSII had 16 OAA in 2025

VSII (190 lbs) is much bigger and stronger than the razor thin Hamilton (160 lbs) but their slg%'s are remarkably close in their age 24 seasons while Hamilton was the superior base stealer and defensive CFer.

Unless C. Bloom can come up w/a better option in CF next season, then VSII will get another chance to show he can get on base or he's tossed to the scrap pile like J. Walker & N. Gorman will be if they fail in 2025.

Yeah, those stats for Hamilton fit my memory of him. A great defensive CF with great speed and a weak bat. Very comparable to Scott today. But Oli will never let him steal 57 bases. Not in his DNA. He likes to wait for the 3-run HR on a team with little HR power.