STLtoday.com

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 14:49 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 10:01 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 09:52 am

Whatashame wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 14:02 pm You have to be curious about where this is going. I believe Nado is gone. I also believe that the odds are pretty good that Gray is moved. The only question is how much payroll is eaten. Those two represent about 60 million dollars in payroll. Do we eat 30 million of it? 20 million of it? With Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley also gone, the payroll could drop below 100 million. There has to be money spent. Can you imagine the St Louis Cardinals coming in with a payroll of less than 100 million dollars!!

I think Gray is interesting. How much contract do you eat before it becomes financially viable just to keep him. We need pitching and Gray is still serviceable. Do we eat 10 million of that 35 million he’s owed? 25 million is still a big chunk but maybe in a better ballpark for Sonny. Do we eat 15 million? At 20 million Sonny is a better bargain. Interesting to see what the puke point is on what we will eat.

I think it’s a better than 50/50 chance Contreras is moved. There will be interest in him. How bad does he want to stay here. We have other options for 1B and 18 million for Contreras isn’t the worst deal. An infield of
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Donovan
is certainly plausible…..and cheap.

Imagine Arenado, Gray and Contreras all being moved. With the loss of the others (Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley), that strips our payroll to a bare minimum. There certainly would be dollars to spend. Probably 60-70 million just to get to 2025 levels. What a different time in the STL.

Too much drama and distraction around Contreras. He gets HBP deliberately and then complains that his teammates don't want to back him up.

They signed him to replace Molina at catcher but he can't catch. Trade him for a bag of baseballs.
All for
.250
20HR
80 RBI

rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:

Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.

If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).

Goldfan wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 14:56 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 14:49 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 10:01 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 09:52 am

Whatashame wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 14:02 pm You have to be curious about where this is going. I believe Nado is gone. I also believe that the odds are pretty good that Gray is moved. The only question is how much payroll is eaten. Those two represent about 60 million dollars in payroll. Do we eat 30 million of it? 20 million of it? With Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley also gone, the payroll could drop below 100 million. There has to be money spent. Can you imagine the St Louis Cardinals coming in with a payroll of less than 100 million dollars!!

I think Gray is interesting. How much contract do you eat before it becomes financially viable just to keep him. We need pitching and Gray is still serviceable. Do we eat 10 million of that 35 million he’s owed? 25 million is still a big chunk but maybe in a better ballpark for Sonny. Do we eat 15 million? At 20 million Sonny is a better bargain. Interesting to see what the puke point is on what we will eat.

I think it’s a better than 50/50 chance Contreras is moved. There will be interest in him. How bad does he want to stay here. We have other options for 1B and 18 million for Contreras isn’t the worst deal. An infield of
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Donovan
is certainly plausible…..and cheap.

Imagine Arenado, Gray and Contreras all being moved. With the loss of the others (Mikolas, Fedde, Matz, Helsley), that strips our payroll to a bare minimum. There certainly would be dollars to spend. Probably 60-70 million just to get to 2025 levels. What a different time in the STL.

Too much drama and distraction around Contreras. He gets HBP deliberately and then complains that his teammates don't want to back him up.

They signed him to replace Molina at catcher but he can't catch. Trade him for a bag of baseballs.
All for
.250
20HR
80 RBI

A 30+ yr old vet offensive catcher who could never stay healthy to replace Yadi……when they were trumpeting Herrera to be Yadis successor….then take the offensive catcher and move to 1b……play with bad catchers who provide no offense…..talk of putting Herrera behind plate again in ‘26
Hopefully there are adults in the FO now

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 14:17 pm

Melville wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 13:36 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:

Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.

If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).

Only an idiot would trade the sole strikeout producing starting pitcher on a team which ranked 29th in MLB in that area.
Particularly since any such move would be a contract dump with very little return as a result.
Unlike Super Slo Mo, Bloom is no idiot (quite possibly weak, but not an idiot).
I suspect he knows, as I have advised, the best option is to have Gray return.
The team can keep him AND compete for a W/C in 2026, with 3 relatively easily accomplished moves.

I don't see Bloom being "weak", seems like a pretty solid guy unlike the prior POBO.

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 15:11 pm It seems like the handwriting is on the wall that Big Man intends for Arenado to come back. NA's not getting younger or cheaper, and his value has only gone down since the spring, when there was not exactly a feeding frenzy over his availability.

I think Gray will be traded, and his salary turned into a couple of overpriced, underperforming short-term SP.

Because it's becoming clear that the future is going to be a lot like the past.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 18:41 pm What exactly is a “gigantic chunk”?

C-Unit wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 18:48 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 18:41 pm What exactly is a “gigantic chunk”?

Seems to me they're talking about the money being reinvested in other departments, not other players like the fans seem to hope.

Goldfan wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 18:51 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 18:48 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 18:41 pm What exactly is a “gigantic chunk”?

Seems to me they're talking about the money being reinvested in other departments, not other players like the fans seem to hope.

The Dept where the SS Billy III is registered

Whatashame wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 16:01 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:

Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.

If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).

I think there’s a good chance that Gray is moved but I have no problem keeping him.
Gray
Liberatore
McGreevy
is a good start to a rotation. I think we trade for a starter and acquire one through FA. Give Matthews, Doyle and Henderson next year in AAA and let them develop. If one of them steps up and is ready to help late, that’s great but give them development time. Love to be in on an Alcantara trade, bringing him back to STL. Maybe really try to pry one of the Seattle starters away from the Mariners. I’d take Gilbert, Kirby or Woo. Whomever we trade for could slide in as a TOTR starter. Maybe we bring back Gallen as a FA. A rotation of
Gray
(Alcantara, Gilbert, Kirby, Woo)
Gallen
Liberatore
McGreevy
is a (drat) good start to a solid rotation.

Then concentrate on bringing in a productive outfielder. I’d prefer two but one is a necessity. Where he comes from is hard to say because we don’t truly know who might be available yet. Could Colorado be tempted to part with Goodman? Young and could play CF. I’m sure there are others.

2 starters and a MOTO outfield bat and this team could take several steps to relevancy and with what we have already moved on from and our payroll is still under control.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 09:03 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 08:54 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 08:42 am

peterman'srealitytour wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 15:15 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:

Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.

If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).

Unless something has changed, I think Gray controls the “pathway” to return to St Louis. Full NTC, as I understand it.

Not necessarily PRT.

Bloom doesn't have to trade him.

If he chooses not to, then Gray will be here on the mound OD 2026.

But he does indeed have a full NTC, so he'd have to approve any trade Bloom "might" bring to him.

Oh the promise of FREED UP MONEY next season……Are you fellas falling for that one again…..Almost every year theres this mysterious freed up money from ending contracts….we see it.
And just as magically it somehow evaporates(arbitration, current salary increases…..) poof all gone…..BDW magic

Not me GF, I have never "fallen" for anything.

I figured out many years ago how BDWJr operates in good times (re: 3+M attendance) where he'd only spend money from expiring or traded contracts.

In bad times like 2024/2025 he simply puts the huge payroll slashing savings into his pocket.

Melville wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 18:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 14:17 pm

Melville wrote: ↑02 Oct 2025 13:36 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑01 Oct 2025 08:57 am It appears he's for sure dealing NADO but this statement from J. Denton makes me wonder if he has other plans for S. Gray:

Bloom does feel there is a more realistic pathway to the veteran right-hander’s return to St. Louis next season.

If he keeps Gray, then it may show Bloom has some ideas on how to walk (keep acquiring players/prospects via trades and smart FA signings) & chew gum (still compete which could help bolster attendance and thus payroll in 2027).

Only an idiot would trade the sole strikeout producing starting pitcher on a team which ranked 29th in MLB in that area.
Particularly since any such move would be a contract dump with very little return as a result.
Unlike Super Slo Mo, Bloom is no idiot (quite possibly weak, but not an idiot).
I suspect he knows, as I have advised, the best option is to have Gray return.
The team can keep him AND compete for a W/C in 2026, with 3 relatively easily accomplished moves.

I don't see Bloom being "weak", seems like a pretty solid guy unlike the prior POBO.

I don't see Bloom one way or the other, but his decision to retain Marmol suggests possible weakness.
It bears watching.