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Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:30 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:12 am

russellhammond wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:07 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:17 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.

Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

I too would like to trade Donovan and Nootbar. Trade Gorman? Only if he's involved in some interesting trade since his value is worth little. Gorman has shown a lot of potential, and he's only 25! But he's giving me Phil Plantier vibes.

But about Arenado...Maybe NA at 3B would be better than Gorman. But trading him and having around 12mil next year to spend on pitching might be the better move. Even if it means Saggese is playing a lot of 3B...

2022 - "He's only 22."
2023 - "He's only 23."
2024 - "He's only 24."
2025 - "He's only 25."
When does Gorman become something other than his age?
And potential? Here's his potential...Next season he has a really good chance of being 26.

This has been the Cardinal Way……wait on no talent players to reach 26…27…28….then somebody in FO wakes up and says “Guess he’s not going to get better”

This is how we waste so many seasons. It’s not because of proven vets like Gray and Willson and NA blocking talent. It’s because we give 162 game tryouts to youngish JAG “prospects” over and over to see what we have and can’t just make a quicker decision and move on from relative failure.

I think the new front office will do a better job of evaluating prospects than we are used to. Hitters have to have good pitch recognition skills, a front office needs good prospect recognition skills. In most cases, they should make decisions sooner.

Swuhgen wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:38 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:04 am I have no issue w/NADO.

Age related decline at the plate is simply a fact in a players life.

Good guy, gave it his all and wore the uniform proudly.

I hope he gets his shot w/a playoff team in 2026.

JMO

His decline happened before it should have. A decline that severe at 32 is not normal.

Who's to say when the right time is for a player Swuhen?

It wasn't in his age 32 season when he was still +8% above league average, hit 26 HR's and drove in 93 during an all-star season that his decline began.

But I also agree that age 33, when he still was a +2% above league average hitter, does seem too early for a player of his stature to decline to 16 HR and only 71 RBI's.

Injuries played a part for sure.

But he also gave the Cardinals three allstar seasons (.271 .328 .495 .824 w/301 RBI's), two Gold Gloves and a Top 3 MVP season.

Toss in the Rockies paying $55M and this was a terrific trade.

Too bad injuries have made it end on a sour note.

Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 07:57 am I’m not sure they will be able to move him.

they can- its just a question of if they basically need to eat almost the whole contract and get nothing in return. that might be what happens

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.

Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

This.

Arenado is a 1.2 WAR player who could be over 2 WAR or even more if healthy.
Gorman is a negative WAR player at 3b.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:53 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.

Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

This.

Arenado is a 1.2 WAR player who could be over 2 WAR or even more if healthy.
Gorman is a negative WAR player at 3b.

2026 Scenarios:

1. Arenado at 3B. Maybe a 1.9 WAR.

2. Maybe Gorman, Sagesse, JJ, Fermin or Donovan at 3B. Also, assuming we get 8-12 million back in an Arenado trade, that can be spent on pitching.


It's cool. Life will go on after Arenado...

It seems like if he were going anywhere, he'd be there by now. If BDW wasn't willing to eat the contract this year, why would he be willing next year?

3dender wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:55 am

Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 07:57 am I’m not sure they will be able to move him.

Anyone is movable the question is just how much money they have to eat in order to get it done. Plenty of teams would sign up for 2yrs of a veteran gold glove 3B who can still run into 15 homers with a league average bat.

A league average bat? Not even that by a long shot. His wRC+ is 82. Average is 100. He is a lousy hitter.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:36 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:30 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:12 am

russellhammond wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:07 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:17 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.

Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

I too would like to trade Donovan and Nootbar. Trade Gorman? Only if he's involved in some interesting trade since his value is worth little. Gorman has shown a lot of potential, and he's only 25! But he's giving me Phil Plantier vibes.

But about Arenado...Maybe NA at 3B would be better than Gorman. But trading him and having around 12mil next year to spend on pitching might be the better move. Even if it means Saggese is playing a lot of 3B...

2022 - "He's only 22."
2023 - "He's only 23."
2024 - "He's only 24."
2025 - "He's only 25."
When does Gorman become something other than his age?
And potential? Here's his potential...Next season he has a really good chance of being 26.

This has been the Cardinal Way……wait on no talent players to reach 26…27…28….then somebody in FO wakes up and says “Guess he’s not going to get better”

This is how we waste so many seasons. It’s not because of proven vets like Gray and Willson and NA blocking talent. It’s because we give 162 game tryouts to youngish JAG “prospects” over and over to see what we have and can’t just make a quicker decision and move on from relative failure.

I think the new front office will do a better job of evaluating prospects than we are used to. Hitters have to have good pitch recognition skills, a front office needs good prospect recognition skills. In most cases, they should make decisions sooner.

how could they not ?

82birds wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 11:38 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:36 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:30 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:12 am

russellhammond wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:07 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:17 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.

Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

I too would like to trade Donovan and Nootbar. Trade Gorman? Only if he's involved in some interesting trade since his value is worth little. Gorman has shown a lot of potential, and he's only 25! But he's giving me Phil Plantier vibes.

But about Arenado...Maybe NA at 3B would be better than Gorman. But trading him and having around 12mil next year to spend on pitching might be the better move. Even if it means Saggese is playing a lot of 3B...

2022 - "He's only 22."
2023 - "He's only 23."
2024 - "He's only 24."
2025 - "He's only 25."
When does Gorman become something other than his age?
And potential? Here's his potential...Next season he has a really good chance of being 26.

This has been the Cardinal Way……wait on no talent players to reach 26…27…28….then somebody in FO wakes up and says “Guess he’s not going to get better”

This is how we waste so many seasons. It’s not because of proven vets like Gray and Willson and NA blocking talent. It’s because we give 162 game tryouts to youngish JAG “prospects” over and over to see what we have and can’t just make a quicker decision and move on from relative failure.

I think the new front office will do a better job of evaluating prospects than we are used to. Hitters have to have good pitch recognition skills, a front office needs good prospect recognition skills. In most cases, they should make decisions sooner.

how could they not ?

Let me be bolder- I think they will actually be very good at player evaluation.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:17 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.

Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

I too would like to trade Donovan and Nootbar. Trade Gorman? Only if he's involved in some interesting trade since his value is worth little. Gorman has shown a lot of potential, and he's only 25! But he's giving me Phil Plantier vibes.

But about Arenado...Maybe NA at 3B would be better than Gorman. But trading him and having around 12mil next year to spend on pitching might be the better move. Even if it means Saggese is playing a lot of 3B...

That’s assuming they spend that money which certainly is no gimme.

And again, IMO, keeping Gorman because his value is low is dumb. His value is low because he sucks, not because it’s some temporary thing.

Keeping guys who suck because their value is low is Mozeliak-think. That’s how we end up holding on to the likes of Reyes, Carlson, and others until they’re worth nothing to us or anybody else.

russellhammond wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:07 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:17 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.

Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

I too would like to trade Donovan and Nootbar. Trade Gorman? Only if he's involved in some interesting trade since his value is worth little. Gorman has shown a lot of potential, and he's only 25! But he's giving me Phil Plantier vibes.

But about Arenado...Maybe NA at 3B would be better than Gorman. But trading him and having around 12mil next year to spend on pitching might be the better move. Even if it means Saggese is playing a lot of 3B...

2022 - "He's only 22."
2023 - "He's only 23."
2024 - "He's only 24."
2025 - "He's only 25."
When does Gorman become something other than his age?
And potential? Here's his potential...Next season he has a really good chance of being 26.

Excellent!! He is just another Flores 1st round bust.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 11:56 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:17 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.

Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

I too would like to trade Donovan and Nootbar. Trade Gorman? Only if he's involved in some interesting trade since his value is worth little. Gorman has shown a lot of potential, and he's only 25! But he's giving me Phil Plantier vibes.

But about Arenado...Maybe NA at 3B would be better than Gorman. But trading him and having around 12mil next year to spend on pitching might be the better move. Even if it means Saggese is playing a lot of 3B...

That’s assuming they spend that money which certainly is no gimme.

And again, IMO, keeping Gorman because his value is low is dumb. His value is low because he sucks, not because it’s some temporary thing.

Keeping guys who suck because their value is low is Mozeliak-think. That’s how we end up holding on to the likes of Reyes, Carlson, and others until they’re worth nothing to us or anybody else.

This is very true. Just several of these guys in recent years who never reached potential.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:00 pm

russellhammond wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 10:07 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:17 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 09:03 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:52 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 08:47 am Just my 2 cents - it would be idiotic to eat a large chunk of Arenado’s salary to get rid of him, only to give the 3B job to Gorman.

I hope there is a better plan than that.

The primary motive should be moving Arenado.

Who he’s replaced with in the near term shouldn’t be something to worry about.

I hope they trade him even if it means eating half of his salary.

Personally I would trade Donovan, Nootbaar, and Gorman.
That gives LF to Herrera, RF to Burleson, 3B to Arenado for 2 years, and 2B to Wetherholt.

And I don’t see any good reason to keep Gorman around. He has been nothing short of terrible and it’s no longer a small sample size.

Just what exactly does eating a large chunk of money and moving Arenado accomplish?

A .700 OPS Arenado at least helps due to defense.

A .720 OPS Gorman doesn’t help the team in any way.

I too would like to trade Donovan and Nootbar. Trade Gorman? Only if he's involved in some interesting trade since his value is worth little. Gorman has shown a lot of potential, and he's only 25! But he's giving me Phil Plantier vibes.

But about Arenado...Maybe NA at 3B would be better than Gorman. But trading him and having around 12mil next year to spend on pitching might be the better move. Even if it means Saggese is playing a lot of 3B...

2022 - "He's only 22."
2023 - "He's only 23."
2024 - "He's only 24."
2025 - "He's only 25."
When does Gorman become something other than his age?
And potential? Here's his potential...Next season he has a really good chance of being 26.

Excellent!! He is just another Flores 1st round bust.

+2 it’s another Dylan Carlson situation oh he’s just 21 he’s going to be lance berkman oh he’s just 22 oh he’s just 23 oh he’s just 24 oh he’s just 25. They thought Carlson was going to be the next lance berkman and Gorman is the next scwarber

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 11:09 am It seems like if he were going anywhere, he'd be there by now. If BDW wasn't willing to eat the contract this year, why would he be willing next year?

Answer: Because in 2025 he lost over 1 million fans in attendance in 2025 ??

ramfandan wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 12:04 pm

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 11:09 am It seems like if he were going anywhere, he'd be there by now. If BDW wasn't willing to eat the contract this year, why would he be willing next year?

Answer: Because in 2025 he lost over 1 million fans in attendance in 2025 ??

The real difference is arenado will probably be willing to waive his NTC this time

And just to be clear, I am not a big Arenado fan.

IMO he is not the player I thought he was when he arrived here.

But he could be a steadying influence in the infield.

Hopefully by 2028 they have a young replacement for him.

But Gorman ain’t it.