ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Why did you omit his 2014 Milb innings?
Liberatore’s got arm fatigue. He dropped 5-6 mph yesterday.
How many innings did he throw in the minors in 2014?
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Why did you omit his 2014 Milb innings?
Liberatore’s got arm fatigue. He dropped 5-6 mph yesterday.
How many innings did he throw in the minors in 2014?
Props for returning to this thread after multiple people called your example stupid, I guess.
Conveniently you chose to ignore the fact that he ended 2015 with a shoulder injury, which would become recurring and eventually cause him to become ineffective by age 29. Again, great example!
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Why did you omit his 2014 Milb innings?
Liberatore’s got arm fatigue. He dropped 5-6 mph yesterday.
How many innings did he throw in the minors in 2014?
Props for returning to this thread after multiple people called your example stupid, I guess.
Conveniently you chose to ignore the fact that he ended 2015 with a shoulder injury, which would become recurring and eventually cause him to become ineffective by age 29. Again, great example!
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
Interesting thread. Liberatore always had issues with losing velo after 3 innings or so. That is why they converted him to a reliever to begin with. Apparently he came into camp this year in better shape and stronger so they gave him another chance to start. Placing blame on Cards management for making him a reliever seems misplaced as he previously didn't prove he could start. This year was a step in the right direction. Even doing it in the major leagues was the right decision instead of wasting the innings in Memphis. The real problem is they have no starting depth. Leahy is already Mikolas piggy back starter. We don't have another one of those available unless they want to try and frame Graceffo in that role.
With respect to CMart, that was a strange situation. He looked like the future. He then had a lat strain, which in many cases has kept pitchers out for entire seasons. For whatever reason, the Cards pushed him to return before he was ready. How do I know that? I was at his first game back where it was clear from pitch 1 he wasn't ready and did not want to be there. He lobbed a couple innings worth of pitches in at 80 MPH or so, no where close to his upper 90s self. He then proceeded to hurt himself further that year while the Cards were pushing him when they should not have. Then he was done...Pitchers get hurt all the time. But, the Cards sure appeared to be culpable with the CMart situation.
All of us should be encouraged by Liberatore this year. Having said that, since losing velo has been a recurring theme for him, it just might be who he is no matter how much he continues to train and tries to build up stamina. Only time will tell. But, this is not a situation where I would blame Cards management unlike many others where they deserve a lot of blame.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
CMart suffered shoulder strain during 2015 in what, his 28th start on September 25th? In other words, probably his last start of the year.
Libby had shoulder fatigue in early June and is slinging 4inning starts in July.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
CMart suffered shoulder strain during 2015 in what, his 28th start on September 25th? In other words, probably his last start of the year.
Libby had shoulder fatigue in early June and is slinging 4inning starts in July.
Yep. Totally the same...
Well why were you silly enough to compare them like they were the exact same situation then now change it and say they aren’t the same situation? And more silly is saying stop babying him so your theory is just leave him in and let him mashed for how many runs instead of pulling him when the fatigue sets in? And the doubling innings on Martinez derailed him at the end of the season doubling liberatores innings caught up to him earlier
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
CMart suffered shoulder strain during 2015 in what, his 28th start on September 25th? In other words, probably his last start of the year.
Libby had shoulder fatigue in early June and is slinging 4inning starts in July.
Yep. Totally the same...
Well why were you silly enough to compare them like they were the exact same situation then now change it and say they aren’t the same situation? And more silly is saying stop babying him so your theory is just leave him in and let him mashed for how many runs instead of pulling him when the fatigue sets in? And the doubling innings on Martinez derailed him at the end of the season doubling liberatores innings caught up to him earlier
I hope ML is okay and works through this. I have no issues with him.
My thing is "Oh, he is only throwing 4 innings a start in July because blah blah Oli and Mo." No. He just needs to be better.
CMart was cruising in 2015 until 9/25. Him relieving in 2014 didn't make him break down at only 85 innings into the season.
Libby needs to be better, if possible. Not every negative thing that happens to him is the fault of someone else... In other words, babying him...
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
CMart suffered shoulder strain during 2015 in what, his 28th start on September 25th? In other words, probably his last start of the year.
Libby had shoulder fatigue in early June and is slinging 4inning starts in July.
Yep. Totally the same...
Well why were you silly enough to compare them like they were the exact same situation then now change it and say they aren’t the same situation? And more silly is saying stop babying him so your theory is just leave him in and let him mashed for how many runs instead of pulling him when the fatigue sets in? And the doubling innings on Martinez derailed him at the end of the season doubling liberatores innings caught up to him earlier
I hope ML is okay and works through this. I have no issues with him.
My thing is "Oh, he is only throwing 4 innings a start in July because blah blah Oli and Mo." No. He just needs to be better.
CMart was cruising in 2015 until 9/25. Him relieving in 2014 didn't make him break down at only 85 innings into the season.
Libby needs to be better, if possible. Not every negative thing that happens to him is the fault of someone else... In other words, babying him...
lol that’s your expert advice just be better? I’m sure he would love to be better but when you physically can’t be better you can’t just think well I’ll be better then you magically become better that’s crazy. And yes Martinez was cruising until the innings caught up to him and liberatore was cruising until the innings caught up to him he was pitching well but according to you what he decided at that time to stop pitching well and all he needs to do is just be better that’s crazy. And it might be shocking but just because it took until the end of the season for innings to catch up to Martinez doesn’t mean it will happen for every single pitcher who ever pitches again at the same time. We know u love management and they are great and genius
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
CMart suffered shoulder strain during 2015 in what, his 28th start on September 25th? In other words, probably his last start of the year.
Libby had shoulder fatigue in early June and is slinging 4inning starts in July.
Yep. Totally the same...
Well why were you silly enough to compare them like they were the exact same situation then now change it and say they aren’t the same situation? And more silly is saying stop babying him so your theory is just leave him in and let him mashed for how many runs instead of pulling him when the fatigue sets in? And the doubling innings on Martinez derailed him at the end of the season doubling liberatores innings caught up to him earlier
I hope ML is okay and works through this. I have no issues with him.
My thing is "Oh, he is only throwing 4 innings a start in July because blah blah Oli and Mo." No. He just needs to be better.
CMart was cruising in 2015 until 9/25. Him relieving in 2014 didn't make him break down at only 85 innings into the season.
Libby needs to be better, if possible. Not every negative thing that happens to him is the fault of someone else... In other words, babying him...
lol that’s your expert advice just be better? I’m sure he would love to be better but when you physically can’t be better you can’t just think well I’ll be better then you magically become better that’s crazy. And yes Martinez was cruising until the innings caught up to him and liberatore was cruising until the innings caught up to him he was pitching well but according to you what he decided at that time to stop pitching well and all he needs to do is just be better that’s crazy. And it might be shocking but just because it took until the end of the season for innings to catch up to Martinez doesn’t mean it will happen for every single pitcher who ever pitches again at the same time. We know u love management and they are great and genius
Yeah, he has to be better. You can search for excuses like a baby, but Libby just has to be better.
Whether that's conditioning or having/not having the talent to be an mlber, he has to be better.
Starters usually don't get fatigued at 66innings, right? Or at around 85? Yeah, not good. And not normal.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
CMart suffered shoulder strain during 2015 in what, his 28th start on September 25th? In other words, probably his last start of the year.
Libby had shoulder fatigue in early June and is slinging 4inning starts in July.
Yep. Totally the same...
Well why were you silly enough to compare them like they were the exact same situation then now change it and say they aren’t the same situation? And more silly is saying stop babying him so your theory is just leave him in and let him mashed for how many runs instead of pulling him when the fatigue sets in? And the doubling innings on Martinez derailed him at the end of the season doubling liberatores innings caught up to him earlier
I hope ML is okay and works through this. I have no issues with him.
My thing is "Oh, he is only throwing 4 innings a start in July because blah blah Oli and Mo." No. He just needs to be better.
CMart was cruising in 2015 until 9/25. Him relieving in 2014 didn't make him break down at only 85 innings into the season.
Libby needs to be better, if possible. Not every negative thing that happens to him is the fault of someone else... In other words, babying him...
lol that’s your expert advice just be better? I’m sure he would love to be better but when you physically can’t be better you can’t just think well I’ll be better then you magically become better that’s crazy. And yes Martinez was cruising until the innings caught up to him and liberatore was cruising until the innings caught up to him he was pitching well but according to you what he decided at that time to stop pitching well and all he needs to do is just be better that’s crazy. And it might be shocking but just because it took until the end of the season for innings to catch up to Martinez doesn’t mean it will happen for every single pitcher who ever pitches again at the same time. We know u love management and they are great and genius
Yeah, he has to be better. You can search for excuses like a baby, but Libby just has to be better.
Whether that's conditioning or having/not having the talent to be an mlber, he has to be better.
Starters usually don't get fatigued at 66innings, right? Or at around 85? Yeah, not good. And not normal.
But by all means, keep making excuses...
Not every two starters are the same you get that right? But hey I know you have a Melville sized know it all ego so if it’s okay I’ll agree to disagree and believe the medical trainers and personnel and coaches over the great and all knowing ecleme
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
CMart suffered shoulder strain during 2015 in what, his 28th start on September 25th? In other words, probably his last start of the year.
Libby had shoulder fatigue in early June and is slinging 4inning starts in July.
Yep. Totally the same...
Well why were you silly enough to compare them like they were the exact same situation then now change it and say they aren’t the same situation? And more silly is saying stop babying him so your theory is just leave him in and let him mashed for how many runs instead of pulling him when the fatigue sets in? And the doubling innings on Martinez derailed him at the end of the season doubling liberatores innings caught up to him earlier
I hope ML is okay and works through this. I have no issues with him.
My thing is "Oh, he is only throwing 4 innings a start in July because blah blah Oli and Mo." No. He just needs to be better.
CMart was cruising in 2015 until 9/25. Him relieving in 2014 didn't make him break down at only 85 innings into the season.
Libby needs to be better, if possible. Not every negative thing that happens to him is the fault of someone else... In other words, babying him...
lol that’s your expert advice just be better? I’m sure he would love to be better but when you physically can’t be better you can’t just think well I’ll be better then you magically become better that’s crazy. And yes Martinez was cruising until the innings caught up to him and liberatore was cruising until the innings caught up to him he was pitching well but according to you what he decided at that time to stop pitching well and all he needs to do is just be better that’s crazy. And it might be shocking but just because it took until the end of the season for innings to catch up to Martinez doesn’t mean it will happen for every single pitcher who ever pitches again at the same time. We know u love management and they are great and genius
Yeah, he has to be better. You can search for excuses like a baby, but Libby just has to be better.
Whether that's conditioning or having/not having the talent to be an mlber, he has to be better.
Starters usually don't get fatigued at 66innings, right? Or at around 85? Yeah, not good. And not normal.
But by all means, keep making excuses...
Not every two starters are the same you get that right? But hey I know you have a Melville sized know it all ego so if it’s okay I’ll agree to disagree and believe the medical trainers and personnel and coaches over the great and all knowing ecleme
I believe the trainers, personnel and coaches too.
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑13 Aug 2025 08:52 am
Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.
The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
CMart suffered shoulder strain during 2015 in what, his 28th start on September 25th? In other words, probably his last start of the year.
Libby had shoulder fatigue in early June and is slinging 4inning starts in July.
Yep. Totally the same...
Well why were you silly enough to compare them like they were the exact same situation then now change it and say they aren’t the same situation? And more silly is saying stop babying him so your theory is just leave him in and let him mashed for how many runs instead of pulling him when the fatigue sets in? And the doubling innings on Martinez derailed him at the end of the season doubling liberatores innings caught up to him earlier
I hope ML is okay and works through this. I have no issues with him.
My thing is "Oh, he is only throwing 4 innings a start in July because blah blah Oli and Mo." No. He just needs to be better.
CMart was cruising in 2015 until 9/25. Him relieving in 2014 didn't make him break down at only 85 innings into the season.
Libby needs to be better, if possible. Not every negative thing that happens to him is the fault of someone else... In other words, babying him...
lol that’s your expert advice just be better? I’m sure he would love to be better but when you physically can’t be better you can’t just think well I’ll be better then you magically become better that’s crazy. And yes Martinez was cruising until the innings caught up to him and liberatore was cruising until the innings caught up to him he was pitching well but according to you what he decided at that time to stop pitching well and all he needs to do is just be better that’s crazy. And it might be shocking but just because it took until the end of the season for innings to catch up to Martinez doesn’t mean it will happen for every single pitcher who ever pitches again at the same time. We know u love management and they are great and genius
Yeah, he has to be better. You can search for excuses like a baby, but Libby just has to be better.
Whether that's conditioning or having/not having the talent to be an mlber, he has to be better.
Starters usually don't get fatigued at 66innings, right? Or at around 85? Yeah, not good. And not normal.
But by all means, keep making excuses...
Not every two starters are the same you get that right? But hey I know you have a Melville sized know it all ego so if it’s okay I’ll agree to disagree and believe the medical trainers and personnel and coaches over the great and all knowing ecleme
I believe the trainers, personnel and coaches too.
As opposed to blaming them.
No you don’t believe them or you wouldn’t have criticized them for “babying” him they’re handling him the way think it’s best to keep him healthy and add innings you disagree and think it’s babying so no you don’t believe them
2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2
Can we stop babying Liberatore?
Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so
You mean how he threw 195 innings in 2016, then 205 in 2017?
But man! His arm issues were definitely from 2014!
No they were in 2015 when he developed them missed the end of the season and post season and they were lucky it didn’t blow him completely out then. So if they go the treat him like martinez route like you say they would be lucky if he just misses the end of the season with shoulder injuries and shoulder injuries are what derailed his career
CMart suffered shoulder strain during 2015 in what, his 28th start on September 25th? In other words, probably his last start of the year.
Libby had shoulder fatigue in early June and is slinging 4inning starts in July.
Yep. Totally the same...
Well why were you silly enough to compare them like they were the exact same situation then now change it and say they aren’t the same situation? And more silly is saying stop babying him so your theory is just leave him in and let him mashed for how many runs instead of pulling him when the fatigue sets in? And the doubling innings on Martinez derailed him at the end of the season doubling liberatores innings caught up to him earlier
I hope ML is okay and works through this. I have no issues with him.
My thing is "Oh, he is only throwing 4 innings a start in July because blah blah Oli and Mo." No. He just needs to be better.
CMart was cruising in 2015 until 9/25. Him relieving in 2014 didn't make him break down at only 85 innings into the season.
Libby needs to be better, if possible. Not every negative thing that happens to him is the fault of someone else... In other words, babying him...
lol that’s your expert advice just be better? I’m sure he would love to be better but when you physically can’t be better you can’t just think well I’ll be better then you magically become better that’s crazy. And yes Martinez was cruising until the innings caught up to him and liberatore was cruising until the innings caught up to him he was pitching well but according to you what he decided at that time to stop pitching well and all he needs to do is just be better that’s crazy. And it might be shocking but just because it took until the end of the season for innings to catch up to Martinez doesn’t mean it will happen for every single pitcher who ever pitches again at the same time. We know u love management and they are great and genius
Yeah, he has to be better. You can search for excuses like a baby, but Libby just has to be better.
Whether that's conditioning or having/not having the talent to be an mlber, he has to be better.
Starters usually don't get fatigued at 66innings, right? Or at around 85? Yeah, not good. And not normal.
But by all means, keep making excuses...
Not every two starters are the same you get that right? But hey I know you have a Melville sized know it all ego so if it’s okay I’ll agree to disagree and believe the medical trainers and personnel and coaches over the great and all knowing ecleme
I believe the trainers, personnel and coaches too.
As opposed to blaming them.
No you don’t believe them or you wouldn’t have criticized them for “babying” him they’re handling him the way think it’s best to keep him healthy and add innings you disagree and think it’s babying so no you don’t believe them
Try to keep up.
The OP pretty much said the reason why Libby has been gassed was because the organization had him relieve last year, instead of start.
The 'babying' or the 'infantilization' was about CTERs making an external excuses for why Libby is already gassed. "It's because Mo made him a reliever last year!!!" It wasn't about the coaches, trainers, etc.
