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ramfandan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 14:16 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 07:33 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:54 am While 3 games is a small sample size, JJ has come out hot ... He is 4 for 11 with 1 double, 1 triple, and 1 home run .
His batting avg. is .364 with a 1.326 OPS

Pretty much a foregone conclusion Wetherholt will be brought up in September to get his 'cup of coffee' in The Show. Would be a bonus for him if the Cardinals would still have a shot at one of the playoff spots. Get a taste of what it is like to be in the hunt even if for a possible wildcard spot.

I don't think they will bring him up. But I thought he should have started on the team to begin the year. Cards are playing it too soft with him

They may not but why wouldn't they give him a taste of major league pitching for up to 130 at bats ( the limit for preserving his rookie status for 2026).
He will have the rest of July, all of August in Memphis. I see no reason not to give him 20+ games ( 3 weeks in September with the 'big boys' . )

IF he tears it up in Memphis for two months, then I do think he gets the late call-up like they did w/M. Winn.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 12:15 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 12:05 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 12:00 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 11:54 am I've said this before, but maybe it's getting close to time to believe what we're seeing and this IS who J. Walk is.

Maybe he's just not good enough for MLB?

Happens all the time in MLB to former highly touted "prospects" who become "suspects" once they reach MLB and teams get a book on them.

MLB is al about making ADJUSTMENTS.

J. Walk hasn't been able to do that once scouts/pitchers figured out his weaknesses.

It feels a little bit like Jo Adell. Adell came up the #1 prospect in baseball and had a -1.8 bWAR and .616 OPS through his first 3 MLB seasons (totaling 557 PAs). He basically spent his entire 2023 season in AAA as his final option. Then had 450 PAs last year in MLB and put up a .682 OPS. Now in his age 26 season he has an .815 OPS with 15 HR/53 RBI for the Angels.

Not sure Jordan will follow the same pattern, but it just feels disappointing.

Great comp

Adell Age 21 - 25
.211 .268 .381 .649

Let's hope Walker (age 21 - 23: .245 .306 .393 .699) figures it out quicker than Adell.

Organizations need to put the tools and strategies in place to put their players in the position to have success.

I'd argue both players had organizations that failed them.

ANYONE with half a brain could’ve looked at Gorman and Walker……with their stance and hitting approach and should’ve said “These guys aren’t ready for MLB”
They both have an open stance and pull off the ball MOST of the time.
Neither of them have performed all that well at AAA

BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 07:32 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 04:48 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:54 am While 3 games is a small sample size, JJ has come out hot ... He is 4 for 11 with 1 double, 1 triple, and 1 home run .
His batting avg. is .364 with a 1.326 OPS

Pretty much a foregone conclusion Wetherholt will be brought up in September to get his 'cup of coffee' in The Show. Would be a bonus for him if the Cardinals would still have a shot at one of the playoff spots. Get a taste of what it is like to be in the hunt even if for a possible wildcard spot.

He's the best chance the Cards have for a "Face of Baseball"
Dude is legit.
I remember the hype for Gregg Jeffries in 1987.
This should be happening with this guy too.
He'(poop) a ton everywhere he's been.
Plug and play man.
Just do it.

Don't jinx the kid. Jordan Walker was the cover boy of some baseball publications, and so far, he's a bust.

This is completely true.
Fabrege eggs do not age well. And spoil easily.

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 15:19 pm

BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 07:32 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 04:48 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:54 am While 3 games is a small sample size, JJ has come out hot ... He is 4 for 11 with 1 double, 1 triple, and 1 home run .
His batting avg. is .364 with a 1.326 OPS

Pretty much a foregone conclusion Wetherholt will be brought up in September to get his 'cup of coffee' in The Show. Would be a bonus for him if the Cardinals would still have a shot at one of the playoff spots. Get a taste of what it is like to be in the hunt even if for a possible wildcard spot.

He's the best chance the Cards have for a "Face of Baseball"
Dude is legit.
I remember the hype for Gregg Jeffries in 1987.
This should be happening with this guy too.
He'(poop) a ton everywhere he's been.
Plug and play man.
Just do it.

Don't jinx the kid. Jordan Walker was the cover boy of some baseball publications, and so far, he's a bust.

This is completely true.
Fabrege eggs do not age well. And spoil easily.

Did the minor league coaches/instructors tell MO Gorman and Walker weren’t ready and he didn’t listen or did everyone think they were ready?

Goldfan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 15:22 pm

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 15:19 pm

BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 07:32 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 04:48 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:54 am While 3 games is a small sample size, JJ has come out hot ... He is 4 for 11 with 1 double, 1 triple, and 1 home run .
His batting avg. is .364 with a 1.326 OPS

Pretty much a foregone conclusion Wetherholt will be brought up in September to get his 'cup of coffee' in The Show. Would be a bonus for him if the Cardinals would still have a shot at one of the playoff spots. Get a taste of what it is like to be in the hunt even if for a possible wildcard spot.

He's the best chance the Cards have for a "Face of Baseball"
Dude is legit.
I remember the hype for Gregg Jeffries in 1987.
This should be happening with this guy too.
He'(poop) a ton everywhere he's been.
Plug and play man.
Just do it.

Don't jinx the kid. Jordan Walker was the cover boy of some baseball publications, and so far, he's a bust.

This is completely true.
Fabrege eggs do not age well. And spoil easily.

Did the minor league coaches/instructors tell MO Gorman and Walker weren’t ready and he didn’t listen or did everyone think they were ready?

If you go back and read the reporting, it was clear that players were arriving in the majors that were not ready to be there... so it was Mozeliak promoting players based on pedigree and not readiness.

They also WAY underinvested in actual player development, so they self created a scenario where they weren't developing players and had no idea that they were not developing players. Pure ignorance as the league passed them by.

Clubmaker2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 11:36 am

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 11:18 am LoL. Cards didn't screw with his mind. They wanted the linebackerk to stop hitting worm burners and get some loft.

Kids a failure and running out of controllable time.

To call someone to MLB and then say , oh, this org has just noticed you swing the bat wrong, even though it got you here, why dont you change it now at the MLB level against the worlds best pitchers, after us letting you do it wrong for years.....that is incompetence and screwing with people.

Actually, his GB rate in the minors was average. It jumped about 15% in the majors. That was the issue. Although, his AV off the bat was in the top 5 or 10%. That is what the FO was looking at correcting. Keep the AV up, but lower the GB rate back to what he was producing in the minors. There was also a growing problem with contact.

Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 08:55 am

BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 07:32 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 04:48 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:54 am While 3 games is a small sample size, JJ has come out hot ... He is 4 for 11 with 1 double, 1 triple, and 1 home run .
His batting avg. is .364 with a 1.326 OPS

Pretty much a foregone conclusion Wetherholt will be brought up in September to get his 'cup of coffee' in The Show. Would be a bonus for him if the Cardinals would still have a shot at one of the playoff spots. Get a taste of what it is like to be in the hunt even if for a possible wildcard spot.

He's the best chance the Cards have for a "Face of Baseball"
Dude is legit.
I remember the hype for Gregg Jeffries in 1987.
This should be happening with this guy too.
He'(poop) a ton everywhere he's been.
Plug and play man.
Just do it.

Don't jinx the kid. Jordan Walker was the cover boy of some baseball publications, and so far, he's a bust.

I don't jinx anyone.
I thought Walker was overrated from the get-go.
Saw him in ST with Winn and I knew Winn would be better.

I’ve been saying the same thing since they were in AA together. Sometimes you can just look at a guy and you know they’re gonna be a ball player. I knew the day I seen them play, Winn was the better of the two. Jordan just seems like a [kittycat] to me. JJ and Winn just carry their self different.

Winn career MLB offense: .255 .307 .387 .694 - 1021 PAs - 24 HR, 101 RBI, 17 SB/11CS
Walker career offense: ---.245 .306 .393 .699 - 894 PAs - 24 HR, 94 RBI, 11 SB/6 CS

Defensively, there's no comparison, but I'd put the brakes on the Winn being the better offensive player long-term...
Both need lessons on stolen bases.

I'm extremely down and frustrated by Walker, but maybe I can learn to have patience and hope someone smarter than anyone so far can help him with adjustments. Or maybe he continues down the rabbit hole.

Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 04:48 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:54 am While 3 games is a small sample size, JJ has come out hot ... He is 4 for 11 with 1 double, 1 triple, and 1 home run .
His batting avg. is .364 with a 1.326 OPS

Pretty much a foregone conclusion Wetherholt will be brought up in September to get his 'cup of coffee' in The Show. Would be a bonus for him if the Cardinals would still have a shot at one of the playoff spots. Get a taste of what it is like to be in the hunt even if for a possible wildcard spot.

He's the best chance the Cards have for a "Face of Baseball"
Dude is legit.
I remember the hype for Gregg Jeffries in 1987.
This should be happening with this guy too.
He'(poop) a ton everywhere he's been.
Plug and play man.
Just do it.

From a hype standpoint, a comparison to Todd Zeile is more accurate IMO.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 15:49 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 15:22 pm

imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 15:19 pm

BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 07:32 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 04:48 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 03:54 am While 3 games is a small sample size, JJ has come out hot ... He is 4 for 11 with 1 double, 1 triple, and 1 home run .
His batting avg. is .364 with a 1.326 OPS

Pretty much a foregone conclusion Wetherholt will be brought up in September to get his 'cup of coffee' in The Show. Would be a bonus for him if the Cardinals would still have a shot at one of the playoff spots. Get a taste of what it is like to be in the hunt even if for a possible wildcard spot.

He's the best chance the Cards have for a "Face of Baseball"
Dude is legit.
I remember the hype for Gregg Jeffries in 1987.
This should be happening with this guy too.
He'(poop) a ton everywhere he's been.
Plug and play man.
Just do it.

Don't jinx the kid. Jordan Walker was the cover boy of some baseball publications, and so far, he's a bust.

This is completely true.
Fabrege eggs do not age well. And spoil easily.

Did the minor league coaches/instructors tell MO Gorman and Walker weren’t ready and he didn’t listen or did everyone think they were ready?

If you go back and read the reporting, it was clear that players were arriving in the majors that were not ready to be there... so it was Mozeliak promoting players based on pedigree and not readiness.

They also WAY underinvested in actual player development, so they self created a scenario where they weren't developing players and had no idea that they were not developing players. Pure ignorance as the league passed them by.

So how stupid did they become that they had no one employed who could watch Gorman/Walker see major holes in swing that wouldn’t translate to MLB. This is extreme incompetence.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 12:15 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 12:05 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 12:00 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 11:54 am I've said this before, but maybe it's getting close to time to believe what we're seeing and this IS who J. Walk is.

Maybe he's just not good enough for MLB?

Happens all the time in MLB to former highly touted "prospects" who become "suspects" once they reach MLB and teams get a book on them.

MLB is al about making ADJUSTMENTS.

J. Walk hasn't been able to do that once scouts/pitchers figured out his weaknesses.

It feels a little bit like Jo Adell. Adell came up the #1 prospect in baseball and had a -1.8 bWAR and .616 OPS through his first 3 MLB seasons (totaling 557 PAs). He basically spent his entire 2023 season in AAA as his final option. Then had 450 PAs last year in MLB and put up a .682 OPS. Now in his age 26 season he has an .815 OPS with 15 HR/53 RBI for the Angels.

Not sure Jordan will follow the same pattern, but it just feels disappointing.

Great comp

Adell Age 21 - 25
.211 .268 .381 .649

Let's hope Walker (age 21 - 23: .245 .306 .393 .699) figures it out quicker than Adell.

Organizations need to put the tools and strategies in place to put their players in the position to have success.

I'd argue both players had organizations that failed them.

Is it ever on the player? Just Worthless came from high school. That may play into it

ClassicO wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 16:42 pmDefensively, there's no comparison, but I'd put the brakes on the Winn being the better offensive player long-term...
Both need lessons on stolen bases.

Yea, I agree. It's pretty frustrating because they seem like they could both be pretty good base stealers with their speed. Take a lesson from VSII and study those great, old guys. And surely there's someone in the Cardinals organization who could give them some hands on lessons.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 17:41 pmIs it ever on the player? Just Worthless came from high school. That may play into it

Well sure you gotta put some of it on the player, but I don't think anyone can say that this team handled them well. I'd say awful in Walker's case. And the organization even admits that they're woefully behind the times when it comes to minor league development.

It's up to the team to develop a guy who has a lot of talent, but may be a bit raw coming out of high school, or even college. They're going to face challenges that they've never faced before. They need to be taught to make adjustments. They may haven't gotten pretty far on raw talent so far, but there's decades of evidence that that only takes you so far.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 17:41 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 12:15 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 12:05 pm

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 12:00 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 11:54 am I've said this before, but maybe it's getting close to time to believe what we're seeing and this IS who J. Walk is.

Maybe he's just not good enough for MLB?

Happens all the time in MLB to former highly touted "prospects" who become "suspects" once they reach MLB and teams get a book on them.

MLB is al about making ADJUSTMENTS.

J. Walk hasn't been able to do that once scouts/pitchers figured out his weaknesses.

It feels a little bit like Jo Adell. Adell came up the #1 prospect in baseball and had a -1.8 bWAR and .616 OPS through his first 3 MLB seasons (totaling 557 PAs). He basically spent his entire 2023 season in AAA as his final option. Then had 450 PAs last year in MLB and put up a .682 OPS. Now in his age 26 season he has an .815 OPS with 15 HR/53 RBI for the Angels.

Not sure Jordan will follow the same pattern, but it just feels disappointing.

Great comp

Adell Age 21 - 25
.211 .268 .381 .649

Let's hope Walker (age 21 - 23: .245 .306 .393 .699) figures it out quicker than Adell.

Organizations need to put the tools and strategies in place to put their players in the position to have success.

I'd argue both players had organizations that failed them.

Is it ever on the player? Just Worthless came from high school. That may play into it

Of course.

But I’ve never seen or heard anything that would indicate issues with Walker or Gorman’s work ethic. Have you?

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 17:43 pm

ClassicO wrote: ↑11 Jul 2025 16:42 pmDefensively, there's no comparison, but I'd put the brakes on the Winn being the better offensive player long-term...
Both need lessons on stolen bases.

Yea, I agree. It's pretty frustrating because they seem like they could both be pretty good base stealers with their speed. Take a lesson from VSII and study those great, old guys. And surely there's someone in the Cardinals organization who could give them some hands on lessons.

Honest question.....why does anyone think Jordan Walker is a base stealer? Having watched him firsthand in the minors many, many times, it is clear he is not. His size is astonishing in person and he appears pretty unathletic to the eye. (Don't get me wrong, he is super strong and built, but as far as pure athleticism, I'm not seeing it.) He is actually quite duckfooted. People on here were saying how he could might be able to play CF a couple years when he was transitioning to OF. No shot! The guys appears like a lumbering clod.

Interesting that some felt Walker wasn’t ready in his 2023 rookie season..
despite the open stance some complain about the guy played in 114 games and had a better batting avg. than BOTH Cards perennial stars Goldy and Nado. Walker.276 Goldy.268 Arenado.266
He had 51 RBI and…
Though some claim he only hit worm burners, the guy hit 16 home runs too. Guess all his hit balls were not along the ground.
It wasn’t Then team wanted launch angle changes.