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Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 09:02 am
by ScotchMIrish
sp25 wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 22:09 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 14:58 pm
I don't know of anybody who was HOF both as manager and player but certainly Joe Torre and Red Schoendienst were stars during their playing days and HOF managers.
Torre made 9 all star games. MVP in 1971 getting MVP votes several times. Managed Yankees to 6 world series winning 4.
Schoendienst 10 all star games. Managed Cardinals to 2 world series winning 1.
Baker good manager and legit player but only made 2 all star games.
Connie Mack was certainly the most successful manager but played in 1800's. Final season was 1896. Stats indicate probably not a star as a player. He was a catcher who interfered with the batter intentionally and was responsible for getting catcher's interference rule enacted.
Point of clarification, Red was elected to the HOF as a player, not a manager.
As you state, Torre was elected as a manager based on his years with the Yankees.
https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers ... 0in%201989.
It was both. Elected in 1989 by the veterans committee. They mention both as player and manager although his player stats should have gotten him in long before 1989. His stats for a player who played all but 2 seasons at second base were good enough. 6th in career hits for second baseman among modern era players.
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 09:05 am
by ScotchMIrish
renostl wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 23:30 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 14:58 pm
I don't know of anybody who was HOF both as manager and player but certainly Joe Torre and Red Schoendienst were stars during their playing days and HOF managers.
Torre made 9 all star games. MVP in 1971 getting MVP votes several times. Managed Yankees to 6 world series winning 4.
Schoendienst 10 all star games. Managed Cardinals to 2 world series winning 1.
Baker good manager and legit player but only made 2 all star games.
Connie Mack was certainly the most successful manager but played in 1800's. Final season was 1896. Stats indicate probably not a star as a player. He was a catcher who interfered with the batter intentionally and was responsible for getting catcher's interference rule enacted.
Mack managed a very long time but was under .500
Yogi didn't get a long shot at manager. He tied himself to the wrong city.
Mack was under .500 because he sold off his best players to keep from going bankrupt. Nobody will catch his total wins - or losses.
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 09:07 am
by sikeston bulldog2
Superstars rarely make good coaches, as it is impossible to transfer or teach the mental greatness of a star.
They make ok coaches as far as coaching a team in a game, but teaching the one on one is tough.
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 09:17 am
by ScotchMIrish
Sheepdawg wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 22:56 pm
Yogi Berra, a true superstar, was 484-444 as a manager.
Yogi managed 5 full seasons and parts of 2 other seasons and took both the Yankees and Mets to the world series.
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 09:40 am
by 45s
With the Rays being sold……Cash might be wary of the new owner and open to a change…
However, he surely is aware of the dysfunction of the stl organization…..and the ultra conservative owner…..
He might have more attractive options..
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 10:04 am
by 12xu
45s wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 09:40 am
With the Rays being sold……Cash might be wary of the new owner and open to a change…
However, he surely is aware of the dysfunction of the stl organization…..and the ultra conservative owner…..
He might have more attractive options..
I think Cash would be a very good possibility, except that he signed an extension with the Rays through the 2028 season.
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 10:21 am
by 45s
12xu wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 10:04 am
45s wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 09:40 am
With the Rays being sold……Cash might be wary of the new owner and open to a change…
However, he surely is aware of the dysfunction of the stl organization…..and the ultra conservative owner…..
He might have more attractive options..
I think Cash would be a very good possibility, except that he signed an extension with the Rays through the 2028 season.
Alex Cora on the hot seat in Boston
Boone on the hot seat in NY
Rumors in Arlington that Bochy is retiring
Angels will be looking as Washington has been out with illness all year….and will likely retire.
If Cash pursues a move….he is going to have options….
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 10:23 am
by Talkin' Baseball
45s wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 10:21 am
12xu wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 10:04 am
45s wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 09:40 am
With the Rays being sold……Cash might be wary of the new owner and open to a change…
However, he surely is aware of the dysfunction of the stl organization…..and the ultra conservative owner…..
He might have more attractive options..
I think Cash would be a very good possibility, except that he signed an extension with the Rays through the 2028 season.
Alex Cora on the hot seat in Boston
Boone on the hot seat in NY
Rumors in Arlington that Bochy is retiring
Angels will be looking as Washington has been out with illness all year….and will likely retire.
If Cash pursues a move….he is going to have options….
Ah, but where will he get more of a free pass from the media than here?
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 10:51 am
by rockondlouie
I'd take Albert in a NYM over any of the three stooges Mo has put in the dugout since TLR retired.
Yadi too.
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 11:11 am
by The Nard
Lou Boudreau. Player-manager for Cleveland and led them to the 1948 pennant.
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 11:30 am
by 45s
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 10:23 am
45s wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 10:21 am
12xu wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 10:04 am
45s wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 09:40 am
With the Rays being sold……Cash might be wary of the new owner and open to a change…
However, he surely is aware of the dysfunction of the stl organization…..and the ultra conservative owner…..
He might have more attractive options..
I think Cash would be a very good possibility, except that he signed an extension with the Rays through the 2028 season.
Alex Cora on the hot seat in Boston
Boone on the hot seat in NY
Rumors in Arlington that Bochy is retiring
Angels will be looking as Washington has been out with illness all year….and will likely retire.
If Cash pursues a move….he is going to have options….
Ah, but where will he get more of a free pass from the media than here?
Appreciate the humor
But there is something to that
Some upsides in StL…
Large and loyal. .to a fault..fan base
Low expectations
The soft media you pointed out
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 11:34 am
by jcgmoi
Boudreau's a good pick. HoF career as a manager who started managing when he was 24. That takes a special guy. Dave DeBusschere comes to mind in another sport.
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 13:02 pm
by renostl
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 09:05 am
renostl wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 23:30 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 14:58 pm
I don't know of anybody who was HOF both as manager and player but certainly Joe Torre and Red Schoendienst were stars during their playing days and HOF managers.
Torre made 9 all star games. MVP in 1971 getting MVP votes several times. Managed Yankees to 6 world series winning 4.
Schoendienst 10 all star games. Managed Cardinals to 2 world series winning 1.
Baker good manager and legit player but only made 2 all star games.
Connie Mack was certainly the most successful manager but played in 1800's. Final season was 1896. Stats indicate probably not a star as a player. He was a catcher who interfered with the batter intentionally and was responsible for getting catcher's interference rule enacted.
Mack managed a very long time but was under .500
Yogi didn't get a long shot at manager. He tied himself to the wrong city.
Mack was under .500 because he sold off his best players to keep from going bankrupt. Nobody will catch his total wins - or losses.
With over 50 years as a manager, losing a single player dropped him to 48%.
All good Scotch. It was an incredibly different time. He was born out of the Civil War and
managed through both World War times.
Re: Superstars or even Stars as Successful Managers
Posted: 08 Jul 2025 14:29 pm
by ScotchMIrish
renostl wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 13:02 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑08 Jul 2025 09:05 am
renostl wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 23:30 pm
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑07 Jul 2025 14:58 pm
I don't know of anybody who was HOF both as manager and player but certainly Joe Torre and Red Schoendienst were stars during their playing days and HOF managers.
Torre made 9 all star games. MVP in 1971 getting MVP votes several times. Managed Yankees to 6 world series winning 4.
Schoendienst 10 all star games. Managed Cardinals to 2 world series winning 1.
Baker good manager and legit player but only made 2 all star games.
Connie Mack was certainly the most successful manager but played in 1800's. Final season was 1896. Stats indicate probably not a star as a player. He was a catcher who interfered with the batter intentionally and was responsible for getting catcher's interference rule enacted.
Mack managed a very long time but was under .500
Yogi didn't get a long shot at manager. He tied himself to the wrong city.
Mack was under .500 because he sold off his best players to keep from going bankrupt. Nobody will catch his total wins - or losses.
With over 50 years as a manager, losing a single player dropped him to 48%.
All good Scotch. It was an incredibly different time. He was born out of the Civil War and
managed through both World War times.
A unique individual. Apparently he became an owner similar to how George Halas did - he knew the guy who started the league. Halas also coached for a long time. I wonder what he would think of today's game. Doubt he would like some of the antics but the guaranteed cash for owners would be welcome.