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craviduce wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 10:37 am Saggese has trouble throwing from 3B. That loopy throw has nothing behind it. Putting him in the OF would be a huge mistake. Noodle arm

but...we've covered this over and over again with the topic starter.

Shady wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 10:48 am

craviduce wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 10:46 am

Shady wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 10:45 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 10:41 am

Shady wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 10:03 am Fairly soon. The Cardinals need more hitters like Wetherholt and Saggese are capable of being. Wonder what the plan is. Could one end up in the outfield?

Seriously, why do you talk about the same topic like every day or every other day? This thing is discussed on the board many times. Talking about it every other day isn’t going to change anything.

Let's see you bring up some better topics then.

he does .... all the time.

Rather than OPs. I see more comments from him on topics that others originate.

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 12:48 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 12:44 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 12:35 pm

Shady wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 12:27 pm I guess the bottom line to my OP is. How do you fit Walker, Gorman, Contreras, Winn, Donovan, Herrera, Burleson, Scott, Nootbaar, Saggese and Wetherholt in the future lineup? Also, with some fine additional catchers on the way. It seems to me a trade or two could be in order.

Good teams deal with some form of this "problem" on a regular basis. It is a good sign that we have fewer holes than we used to. The big danger is that once we find a "good" solution to the holes we have/had, that we are not brave enough to be willing to upgrade to a "better" option.

Correct. The Cardinals have had too many adequate players for far too long and have always been unwilling to get a better option. This is a big concern going forward. Yes, we have a lot of good, young players, but we still need a bigtime MOTO bat and an Ace.

2026:
Ace
Gray
Pallante
McGreevy
Mathews

Lineup:
Donovan
Winn
MOTO Bat
Contreras
Herrera
Saggese
Burleson
Wetherholt
Walker
Scott II
Pages/Crooks

Notable Subtractions:
Mikolas
Matz
Fedde
Arenado
Nootbaar
Gorman

far too long? I guess goldy and nado don't count? gray?

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 14:50 pm

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 12:48 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 12:44 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 12:35 pm

Shady wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 12:27 pm I guess the bottom line to my OP is. How do you fit Walker, Gorman, Contreras, Winn, Donovan, Herrera, Burleson, Scott, Nootbaar, Saggese and Wetherholt in the future lineup? Also, with some fine additional catchers on the way. It seems to me a trade or two could be in order.

Good teams deal with some form of this "problem" on a regular basis. It is a good sign that we have fewer holes than we used to. The big danger is that once we find a "good" solution to the holes we have/had, that we are not brave enough to be willing to upgrade to a "better" option.

Correct. The Cardinals have had too many adequate players for far too long and have always been unwilling to get a better option. This is a big concern going forward. Yes, we have a lot of good, young players, but we still need a bigtime MOTO bat and an Ace.

2026:
Ace
Gray
Pallante
McGreevy
Mathews

Lineup:
Donovan
Winn
MOTO Bat
Contreras
Herrera
Saggese
Burleson
Wetherholt
Walker
Scott II
Pages/Crooks

Notable Subtractions:
Mikolas
Matz
Fedde
Arenado
Nootbaar
Gorman

far too long? I guess goldy and nado don't count? gray?

Yes. Nado and Goldy were very good gets, but the Cards still refused to put the final pieces in place and finish the team. Gray is a #2 at best.

When i think of guys that were average my mind goes to the likes of Paul DeJong. Probably O'Neil, Bader, etc. fit the bill. I know there are lots more. Guys we keep and are never good enough but we refuse to upgrade

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 14:59 pm Not long ago Saggese would be in MLB getting 1 or 2 starts a week and entering games via the double switch in the 5th or 6th inning getting playing time and plate appearances.

That's gone now due to the DH. Wouldn't you rather see him in St Louis than looking at his stats in Memphis?

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 10:30 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 14:59 pm Not long ago Saggese would be in MLB getting 1 or 2 starts a week and entering games via the double switch in the 5th or 6th inning getting playing time and plate appearances.

That's gone now due to the DH. Wouldn't you rather see him in St Louis than looking at his stats in Memphis?

I know many don’t like to see pitcher AB’s, but you bring up a great point about a missing and very integral part of young player development. Not to mention a key strategic aspect that used to separate some managers from others.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 10:37 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 10:30 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 14:59 pm Not long ago Saggese would be in MLB getting 1 or 2 starts a week and entering games via the double switch in the 5th or 6th inning getting playing time and plate appearances.

That's gone now due to the DH. Wouldn't you rather see him in St Louis than looking at his stats in Memphis?

I know many don’t like to see pitcher AB’s, but you bring up a great point about a missing and very integral part of young player development. Not to mention a key strategic aspect that used to separate some managers from others.

I understand what you're saying but in 2021 Wainwright had 32 starts and only 57 at bats. Laid down 17 sacrifice bunts moving a man into scoring position.

It's hardly a large portion of a baseball game. I'd take that to see more of a good young player.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 11:01 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 10:37 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 10:30 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 14:59 pm Not long ago Saggese would be in MLB getting 1 or 2 starts a week and entering games via the double switch in the 5th or 6th inning getting playing time and plate appearances.

That's gone now due to the DH. Wouldn't you rather see him in St Louis than looking at his stats in Memphis?

I know many don’t like to see pitcher AB’s, but you bring up a great point about a missing and very integral part of young player development. Not to mention a key strategic aspect that used to separate some managers from others.

I understand what you're saying but in 2021 Wainwright had 32 starts and only 57 at bats. Laid down 17 sacrifice bunts moving a man into scoring position.

It's hardly a large portion of a baseball game. I'd take that to see more of a good young player.

I’m actually in complete agreement with you, just pointing out that many used “not wanting to see pitcher ABs, or protecting pitchers” as the main justification for DH.

I think your point on what was lost from universal DH in being able to ease young players in is worth a dedicated topic itself. Kind of wasted on this daily hyperventilation thread. Get to work! Lol

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 15:55 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 11:01 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 10:37 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 10:30 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 14:59 pm Not long ago Saggese would be in MLB getting 1 or 2 starts a week and entering games via the double switch in the 5th or 6th inning getting playing time and plate appearances.

That's gone now due to the DH. Wouldn't you rather see him in St Louis than looking at his stats in Memphis?

I know many don’t like to see pitcher AB’s, but you bring up a great point about a missing and very integral part of young player development. Not to mention a key strategic aspect that used to separate some managers from others.

I understand what you're saying but in 2021 Wainwright had 32 starts and only 57 at bats. Laid down 17 sacrifice bunts moving a man into scoring position.

It's hardly a large portion of a baseball game. I'd take that to see more of a good young player.

I’m actually in complete agreement with you, just pointing out that many used “not wanting to see pitcher ABs, or protecting pitchers” as the main justification for DH.

I think your point on what was lost from universal DH in being able to ease young players in is worth a dedicated topic itself. Kind of wasted on this daily hyperventilation thread. Get to work! Lol

I prefer discussing baseball with rational people like yourself. If I start a thread about it the crazies will show up.

WLTFE wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 16:01 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 15:55 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 11:01 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 10:37 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑20 Jun 2025 10:30 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑19 Jun 2025 14:59 pm Not long ago Saggese would be in MLB getting 1 or 2 starts a week and entering games via the double switch in the 5th or 6th inning getting playing time and plate appearances.

That's gone now due to the DH. Wouldn't you rather see him in St Louis than looking at his stats in Memphis?

I know many don’t like to see pitcher AB’s, but you bring up a great point about a missing and very integral part of young player development. Not to mention a key strategic aspect that used to separate some managers from others.

I understand what you're saying but in 2021 Wainwright had 32 starts and only 57 at bats. Laid down 17 sacrifice bunts moving a man into scoring position.

It's hardly a large portion of a baseball game. I'd take that to see more of a good young player.

I’m actually in complete agreement with you, just pointing out that many used “not wanting to see pitcher ABs, or protecting pitchers” as the main justification for DH.

I think your point on what was lost from universal DH in being able to ease young players in is worth a dedicated topic itself. Kind of wasted on this daily hyperventilation thread. Get to work! Lol

I prefer discussing baseball with rational people like yourself. If I start a thread about it the crazies will show up.

The DH...The DH....The DH!!!!