Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑11 May 2025 13:13 pm
What is the current position of Cards Talk posters on trading Sonny Gray? I understand that he has a no-trade clause and that he did not express an interest in being traded in the off-season. He has expressed a desire to play close to his home in Tennessee. That would leave the Reds and the Braves as possibilities. I assume that a trade within the division to the Reds is off the table, so that leaves the Braves. They got off to a slow start. They have pitching injuries and rank in the middle of the pack in most pitching categories. #1- Would you entertain trading him to the Braves if he would waive his NTC? #2- If you would, who do the Braves have that you would be interested in? 21 of their top 30 prospects are pitchers.
Upside- Solid veteran pitcher. Only one year left on contract. Could act as a good mentor for the younger pitchers.
Downside- Age. Costly last year. NTC makes him tough to move.
If he is not moved at the deadline and he has a very strong season it’s possible they could look to rework/extend him if it makes sense. Spread his 2026 $$ out over an additional season??
Anyone can be dealt if the return is a very good one but that NTC will limit what the team can do.
Gray’s contract wouldn’t be an easy one to move without the NTC. He’ll cost $40M in 2026 if his 2027 option is declined. He wouldn’t be short on suitors, but it’s still unlikely teams would be offering their top prospects.
It was a poorly designed contract, and the Cards probably end up eating it.
It was designed to keep Sonny around thru 2027; thus not poorly designed at all.
A backloaded contract with an NTC on the cusp of a rebuild is far from ideal.
They may not have anticipated as long of a rebuild as you have. We'll see how poorly designed it is. At least the last year is an option in case your pessimism rules the day. But, then, I'm guessing you are a bit surprised that we are already above .500.
Everyone but guys like you is surprised they’re over .500.
Yes… we will definitely see how poorly designed it is, paying $40M for a pseudo-ace to pitch for a .500 team.
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑11 May 2025 13:13 pm
What is the current position of Cards Talk posters on trading Sonny Gray? I understand that he has a no-trade clause and that he did not express an interest in being traded in the off-season. He has expressed a desire to play close to his home in Tennessee. That would leave the Reds and the Braves as possibilities. I assume that a trade within the division to the Reds is off the table, so that leaves the Braves. They got off to a slow start. They have pitching injuries and rank in the middle of the pack in most pitching categories. #1- Would you entertain trading him to the Braves if he would waive his NTC? #2- If you would, who do the Braves have that you would be interested in? 21 of their top 30 prospects are pitchers.
Upside- Solid veteran pitcher. Only one year left on contract. Could act as a good mentor for the younger pitchers.
Downside- Age. Costly last year. NTC makes him tough to move.
If he is not moved at the deadline and he has a very strong season it’s possible they could look to rework/extend him if it makes sense. Spread his 2026 $$ out over an additional season??
Anyone can be dealt if the return is a very good one but that NTC will limit what the team can do.
Gray’s contract wouldn’t be an easy one to move without the NTC. He’ll cost $40M in 2026 if his 2027 option is declined. He wouldn’t be short on suitors, but it’s still unlikely teams would be offering their top prospects.
It was a poorly designed contract, and the Cards probably end up eating it.
Probably right.
Payroll may not be an issue in 2026?
Arenado could still be dealt although his $$ are less in 2026.
I assumed Matz/Mikolas would both be gone to the tune of saving $30M.
LOL...of course at the moment they are doing well!
Ya… the rotation will obviously get much younger next year. They can handle the Gray/Arenado/Contreras contracts, but I think they may still move Arenado.
Arenado could once again be the hot topic of the Hot Stove at the deadline and beyond.
Gorman or Donovan could settle in at 3B.
Don’t know if JJ could factor in there.
I’m looking forward to this season even if they don’t make a run in September.
You mentioned the rotation:
Has Libby arrived?
Is Pallante a solid #5??
At some point we’ll see:
McGreevy
Graceffo
Mathews
Roby
Hence
Etc etc
Aren't a few of those pitchers injured?
Yes....Mathews & Hence.
Just listed those we might see before the end of the season.
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 13:17 pm
Were finally playing great baseball and we are in the thick of the division and wild card races.
Stop talking about trading guys. Now is not the time
lol. No kidding.
Maybe I can re-introduce the topic at a more appropriate time, like after we play the Phillies, the Royals twice, and the Tigers and are no longer fantasizing about being a playoff team.
Is that your prediction? Perhaps we can revisit this.
I don't know if prediction is the right word- belief might be the way I would say it. I'm not adamant, or grumpy about it. I'm enjoying the winning like everyone else. I don't dislike the team and actually am optimistic about things going forward. But...I think they are not quite there yet, and rather than being a fringe-type, maybe playoff team I would like to see them do the things they can to bring in 2-3 players who will make a difference going forward. If I have misjudged the situation, I will not be unhappy at all. I just think that's where things are right now.
Also, more than being eager to get rid of Sonny Gray, I was interested to hear if anyone here thought the Braves might have anyone in their system who could be one of those difference-makers, but no one has responded to that. I am not unhappy to have Sonny Gray today, or going forward.
Sonny Gray is a quality pitcher who we have under contract control for 2 more years beyond this. Moreover, his contract doesn't make him a high trade value candidate. On the other hand, he can be a mainstay for the Cardinals thru 2027. Focus on trading him eludes me.
We've already caught the pessimists by surprise and find a team that's fun to watch and has a chance nightly to win; especially now that the pen has been sorted. With Herrera healthy, Contreras killing the ball, Scott breaking out, Winn playing well, Nootbaar teeing off, Arenado showing marvelous D and hitting better than last year I don't get why folks don't think we can get it done. With Libby outpitching Skenes, Sonny solid, Fedde pitching a CG shutout, Pallante strong, even Mikolas sharp... why is this team not competitive for the postseason? I don't buy it.
Most of those who aren't willing to buy the Cardinals in '25, thought they were cannon fodder for the season. Wrong about that. Why not wrong about postseason prospects? I'm not giving up.
vegascardsfan5890 wrote: ↑11 May 2025 13:17 pm
Were finally playing great baseball and we are in the thick of the division and wild card races.
Stop talking about trading guys. Now is not the time
lol. No kidding.
Maybe I can re-introduce the topic at a more appropriate time, like after we play the Phillies, the Royals twice, and the Tigers and are no longer fantasizing about being a playoff team.
Is that your prediction? Perhaps we can revisit this.
I don't know if prediction is the right word- belief might be the way I would say it. I'm not adamant, or grumpy about it. I'm enjoying the winning like everyone else. I don't dislike the team and actually am optimistic about things going forward. But...I think they are not quite there yet, and rather than being a fringe-type, maybe playoff team I would like to see them do the things they can to bring in 2-3 players who will make a difference going forward. If I have misjudged the situation, I will not be unhappy at all. I just think that's where things are right now.
Also, more than being eager to get rid of Sonny Gray, I was interested to hear if anyone here thought the Braves might have anyone in their system who could be one of those difference-makers, but no one has responded to that. I am not unhappy to have Sonny Gray today, or going forward.
Sonny Gray is a quality pitcher who we have under contract control for 2 more years beyond this. Moreover, his contract doesn't make him a high trade value candidate. On the other hand, he can be a mainstay for the Cardinals thru 2027. Focus on trading him eludes me.
We've already caught the pessimists by surprise and find a team that's fun to watch and has a chance nightly to win; especially now that the pen has been sorted. With Herrera healthy, Contreras killing the ball, Scott breaking out, Winn playing well, Nootbaar teeing off, Arenado showing marvelous D and hitting better than last year I don't get why folks don't think we can get it done. With Libby outpitching Keynes, Sonny solid, Fedde pitching a CG shutout, Pallante strong, even Mikolas sharp... why is this team not competitive for the postseason. I don't buy it.
Most of those who aren't willing to buy the Cardinals in '25, thought they were cannon fodder for the season. Wrong about that. Why not wrong about postseason prospects? I'm not giving up.
They are definitely better than I thought and I am enjoying watching them play much more this year. Night and day difference. Still not sold on the postseason prospects. In their next 15 series' the Cardinals play (in order), Phillies, Royals, Tigers, Diamondbacks, Orioles, Rangers, Royals, Dodgers, Blue Jays, Brewers, White Sox, Reds, Cubs, Guardians, and Rangers. That's 11 series against teams with .500 records or better. The teams with losing records are the Orioles, Brewers, Reds, and White Sox. How we do there will say a lot about what the prospects are. What I don't want to have happen is to get to the deadline and hold tight or buy and then not make it. After the deadline 4 of our first 5 series we play the Padres and Dodgers on the road and the Cubs and Yankees at home (with the Rockies sprinkled in ) I'm willing to be impressed.
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑11 May 2025 13:13 pm
What is the current position of Cards Talk posters on trading Sonny Gray? I understand that he has a no-trade clause and that he did not express an interest in being traded in the off-season. He has expressed a desire to play close to his home in Tennessee. That would leave the Reds and the Braves as possibilities. I assume that a trade within the division to the Reds is off the table, so that leaves the Braves. They got off to a slow start. They have pitching injuries and rank in the middle of the pack in most pitching categories. #1- Would you entertain trading him to the Braves if he would waive his NTC? #2- If you would, who do the Braves have that you would be interested in? 21 of their top 30 prospects are pitchers.
Upside- Solid veteran pitcher. Only one year left on contract. Could act as a good mentor for the younger pitchers.
Downside- Age. Costly last year. NTC makes him tough to move.
If he is not moved at the deadline and he has a very strong season it’s possible they could look to rework/extend him if it makes sense. Spread his 2026 $$ out over an additional season??
Anyone can be dealt if the return is a very good one but that NTC will limit what the team can do.
I am reading on cards talk and in other places that Gray’s velocity is down. That is a huge red flag for any team that might be looking to add starting pitching.
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑11 May 2025 13:13 pm
What is the current position of Cards Talk posters on trading Sonny Gray? I understand that he has a no-trade clause and that he did not express an interest in being traded in the off-season. He has expressed a desire to play close to his home in Tennessee. That would leave the Reds and the Braves as possibilities. I assume that a trade within the division to the Reds is off the table, so that leaves the Braves. They got off to a slow start. They have pitching injuries and rank in the middle of the pack in most pitching categories. #1- Would you entertain trading him to the Braves if he would waive his NTC? #2- If you would, who do the Braves have that you would be interested in? 21 of their top 30 prospects are pitchers.
Upside- Solid veteran pitcher. Only one year left on contract. Could act as a good mentor for the younger pitchers.
Downside- Age. Costly last year. NTC makes him tough to move.
If he is not moved at the deadline and he has a very strong season it’s possible they could look to rework/extend him if it makes sense. Spread his 2026 $$ out over an additional season??
Anyone can be dealt if the return is a very good one but that NTC will limit what the team can do.
Gray’s contract wouldn’t be an easy one to move without the NTC. He’ll cost $40M in 2026 if his 2027 option is declined. He wouldn’t be short on suitors, but it’s still unlikely teams would be offering their top prospects.
It was a poorly designed contract, and the Cards probably end up eating it.
It was designed to keep Sonny around thru 2027; thus not poorly designed at all.
A backloaded contract with an NTC on the cusp of a rebuild is far from ideal.
They may not have anticipated as long of a rebuild as you have. We'll see how poorly designed it is. At least the last year is an option in case your pessimism rules the day. But, then, I'm guessing you are a bit surprised that we are already above .500.
Everyone but guys like you is surprised they’re over .500.
Yes… we will definitely see how poorly designed it is, paying $40M for a pseudo-ace to pitch for a .500 team.
Not $40M. The 5M is exactly as advertised. Opportunity to extend. And, he isn’t pseudo anything.
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑11 May 2025 13:13 pm
What is the current position of Cards Talk posters on trading Sonny Gray? I understand that he has a no-trade clause and that he did not express an interest in being traded in the off-season. He has expressed a desire to play close to his home in Tennessee. That would leave the Reds and the Braves as possibilities. I assume that a trade within the division to the Reds is off the table, so that leaves the Braves. They got off to a slow start. They have pitching injuries and rank in the middle of the pack in most pitching categories. #1- Would you entertain trading him to the Braves if he would waive his NTC? #2- If you would, who do the Braves have that you would be interested in? 21 of their top 30 prospects are pitchers.
Upside- Solid veteran pitcher. Only one year left on contract. Could act as a good mentor for the younger pitchers.
Downside- Age. Costly last year. NTC makes him tough to move.
If he is not moved at the deadline and he has a very strong season it’s possible they could look to rework/extend him if it makes sense. Spread his 2026 $$ out over an additional season??
Anyone can be dealt if the return is a very good one but that NTC will limit what the team can do.
I am reading on cards talk and in other places that Gray’s velocity is down. That is a huge red flag for any team that might be looking to add starting pitching.
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 May 2025 14:30 pm
I am reading on cards talk and in other places that Gray’s velocity is down. That is a huge red flag for any team that might be looking to add starting pitching.
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 May 2025 14:30 pm
I am reading on cards talk and in other places that Gray’s velocity is down. That is a huge red flag for any team that might be looking to add starting pitching.
I doubt that is true but consider the source.
His velocity is down.
Not according to cardsstatman. Where is your source?
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 May 2025 14:30 pm
I am reading on cards talk and in other places that Gray’s velocity is down. That is a huge red flag for any team that might be looking to add starting pitching.
I doubt that is true but consider the source.
His velocity is down.
Not according to cardsstatman. Where is your source?
His velocity is down as much as JB Pritzker's weight is down. Up a pound on Monday and down a pound on Tuesday. We are talking about less than 1% fluctuations in velocity. Gray is a pitcher, not a thrower.
He is about as consistent as a starting pitcher can be in this era. He is an excellent mentor for the other pitchers. More like Carp than Waino in that regard as he does it silently and in the background. He doesn't have to be the center of attention and do goofy things to get attention.
He wants to stay in STL, he wants to compete, he wants to mentor and teach. Because of that, I want him here. Very similar to Willson. Plenty of other pieces to trade.
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 May 2025 14:30 pm
I am reading on cards talk and in other places that Gray’s velocity is down. That is a huge red flag for any team that might be looking to add starting pitching.
I doubt that is true but consider the source.
His velocity is down.
Not according to cardsstatman. Where is your source?
His velocity is down as much as JB Pritzker's weight is down. Up a pound on Monday and down a pound on Tuesday. We are talking about less than 1% fluctuations in velocity. Gray is a pitcher, not a thrower.
He is about as consistent as a starting pitcher can be in this era. He is an excellent mentor for the other pitchers. More like Carp than Waino in that regard as he does it silently and in the background. He doesn't have to be the center of attention and do goofy things to get attention.
He wants to stay in STL, he wants to compete, he wants to mentor and teach. Because of that, I want him here. Very similar to Willson. Plenty of other pieces to trade.
I’m not including Gray or Willy in my reset. You can relax. But I am shopping Mik Matz and Nado. Then I play. In off season I cut the young fat. Then I add one superstar. Play 2026. Repeat. Compete.
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 May 2025 14:30 pm
I am reading on cards talk and in other places that Gray’s velocity is down. That is a huge red flag for any team that might be looking to add starting pitching.
I doubt that is true but consider the source.
His velocity is down.
Not according to cardsstatman. Where is your source?
His velocity is down as much as JB Pritzker's weight is down. Up a pound on Monday and down a pound on Tuesday. We are talking about less than 1% fluctuations in velocity. Gray is a pitcher, not a thrower.
He is about as consistent as a starting pitcher can be in this era. He is an excellent mentor for the other pitchers. More like Carp than Waino in that regard as he does it silently and in the background. He doesn't have to be the center of attention and do goofy things to get attention.
He wants to stay in STL, he wants to compete, he wants to mentor and teach. Because of that, I want him here. Very similar to Willson. Plenty of other pieces to trade.
I’m not including Gray or Willy in my reset. You can relax. But I am shopping Mik Matz and Nado. Then I play. In off season I cut the young fat. Then I add one superstar. Play 2026. Repeat. Compete.
) I'm willing to be impressed.