STLtoday.com

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 21:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 08:20 am

imadangman wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 15:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 13:05 pm Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

Very little power, see a 25 HR hitter in that bunch since you have Gorman on your bench.

That group has no true #3 hitter or clean-up man.

They would have to all hit for high averages, stringing together multiple hits to score runs.

NO TEAM can build a serious playoff contender using all strictly from within their organization.

Honestly dangman they're going to have to acquire at least one true MOTO bat (two if they want to have a shot at another WS) or that lineup could be trouble.

Walker and Gorman are both potential MOTO bats.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:24 am

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 21:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 08:20 am

imadangman wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 15:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 13:05 pm Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

Very little power, see a 25 HR hitter in that bunch since you have Gorman on your bench.

That group has no true #3 hitter or clean-up man.

They would have to all hit for high averages, stringing together multiple hits to score runs.

NO TEAM can build a serious playoff contender using all strictly from within their organization.

Honestly dangman they're going to have to acquire at least one true MOTO bat (two if they want to have a shot at another WS) or that lineup could be trouble.

Walker and Gorman are both potential MOTO bats.

We'd all hope for that, but HOPE is not a strategy.

Walker isn't close to being a MOTO bat, he's shown little power potential in spite of his 6'6"/255 lb frame.

Gorman has the power but we all know his problem is constantly putting the bat on the ball enough times to reach that potential.

If pressed, I'd put my money on Gorman but it would be Mad Money I could afford to lose.

NO true MOTO bats in the entire organization.

That lineup above will require BDWJr to spend BIG money on one.

If he doesn't and C. Bloom can't pull a "Walt Jocketty like" highway robbery (re: J. Edmonds/S. Rolen) type trade, then this team will never again compete for a WS title.

JMO

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:51 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:24 am

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 21:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 08:20 am

imadangman wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 15:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 13:05 pm Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

Very little power, see a 25 HR hitter in that bunch since you have Gorman on your bench.

That group has no true #3 hitter or clean-up man.

They would have to all hit for high averages, stringing together multiple hits to score runs.

NO TEAM can build a serious playoff contender using all strictly from within their organization.

Honestly dangman they're going to have to acquire at least one true MOTO bat (two if they want to have a shot at another WS) or that lineup could be trouble.

Walker and Gorman are both potential MOTO bats.

We'd all hope for that, but HOPE is not a strategy.

Walker isn't close to being a MOTO bat, he's shown little power potential in spite of his 6'6"/255 lb frame.

Gorman has the power but we all know his problem is constantly putting the bat on the ball enough times to reach that potential.

If pressed, I'd put my money on Gorman but it would be Mad Money I could afford to lose.

NO true MOTO bats in the entire organization.

That lineup above will require BDWJr to spend BIG money on one.

If he doesn't and C. Bloom can't pull a "Walt Jocketty like" highway robbery (re: J. Edmonds/S. Rolen) type trade, then this team will never again compete for a WS title.

JMO

The good news is a team with 6-7 solid hitters doesn't absolutely HAVE to have a MOTO bat. Putting the hot hitters in the 3-4 spots can work if the team is also defensively sound and has a good pitching staff.

Still is nice to have that one bat that scares opposing pitchers. Notice how carefully they pitch to Harper. But having a Pujols like batter is a luxury if you aren't LAD or NYY.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 11:35 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:51 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:24 am

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 21:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 08:20 am

imadangman wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 15:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 13:05 pm Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

Very little power, see a 25 HR hitter in that bunch since you have Gorman on your bench.

That group has no true #3 hitter or clean-up man.

They would have to all hit for high averages, stringing together multiple hits to score runs.

NO TEAM can build a serious playoff contender using all strictly from within their organization.

Honestly dangman they're going to have to acquire at least one true MOTO bat (two if they want to have a shot at another WS) or that lineup could be trouble.

Walker and Gorman are both potential MOTO bats.

We'd all hope for that, but HOPE is not a strategy.

Walker isn't close to being a MOTO bat, he's shown little power potential in spite of his 6'6"/255 lb frame.

Gorman has the power but we all know his problem is constantly putting the bat on the ball enough times to reach that potential.

If pressed, I'd put my money on Gorman but it would be Mad Money I could afford to lose.

NO true MOTO bats in the entire organization.

That lineup above will require BDWJr to spend BIG money on one.

If he doesn't and C. Bloom can't pull a "Walt Jocketty like" highway robbery (re: J. Edmonds/S. Rolen) type trade, then this team will never again compete for a WS title.

JMO

The good news is a team with 6-7 solid hitters doesn't absolutely HAVE to have a MOTO bat. Putting the hot hitters in the 3-4 spots can work if the team is also defensively sound and has a good pitching staff.

Still is nice to have that one bat that scares opposing pitchers. Notice how carefully they pitch to Harper. But having a Pujols like batter is a luxury if you aren't LAD or NYY.

Disagree 100% (although you did CYA w/that second paragraph )

First that group doesn't have 6-7 "solid" hitters w/established MLB resumes.

Second, you absolutely have to have some power bats in the middle of the order that can turn men on base into three, four run innings instead of having to scrap out three singles just to get a run.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 11:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 11:35 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:51 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:24 am

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 21:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 08:20 am

imadangman wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 15:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 13:05 pm Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

Very little power, see a 25 HR hitter in that bunch since you have Gorman on your bench.

That group has no true #3 hitter or clean-up man.

They would have to all hit for high averages, stringing together multiple hits to score runs.

NO TEAM can build a serious playoff contender using all strictly from within their organization.

Honestly dangman they're going to have to acquire at least one true MOTO bat (two if they want to have a shot at another WS) or that lineup could be trouble.

Walker and Gorman are both potential MOTO bats.

We'd all hope for that, but HOPE is not a strategy.

Walker isn't close to being a MOTO bat, he's shown little power potential in spite of his 6'6"/255 lb frame.

Gorman has the power but we all know his problem is constantly putting the bat on the ball enough times to reach that potential.

If pressed, I'd put my money on Gorman but it would be Mad Money I could afford to lose.

NO true MOTO bats in the entire organization.

That lineup above will require BDWJr to spend BIG money on one.

If he doesn't and C. Bloom can't pull a "Walt Jocketty like" highway robbery (re: J. Edmonds/S. Rolen) type trade, then this team will never again compete for a WS title.

JMO

The good news is a team with 6-7 solid hitters doesn't absolutely HAVE to have a MOTO bat. Putting the hot hitters in the 3-4 spots can work if the team is also defensively sound and has a good pitching staff.

Still is nice to have that one bat that scares opposing pitchers. Notice how carefully they pitch to Harper. But having a Pujols like batter is a luxury if you aren't LAD or NYY.

Disagree 100% (although you did CYA w/that second paragraph )

First that group doesn't have 6-7 "solid" hitters w/established MLB resumes.

Second, you absolutely have to have some power bats in the middle of the order that can turn men on base into three, four run innings instead of having to scrap out three singles just to get a run.

I didn't say they HAVE 6-7 solid bats. I said it is possible to be a contender with that kind of lineup. No need to CYA since I stand by it. That guy who scares you in the middle is a luxury for many teams.

Got to go in 5 minutes so quick lookup.

2015 Royals
2016 Indians
2023 D Backs

ALl of them capped out with a guy at about 125-130 OPS+.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 12:01 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 11:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 11:35 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:51 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:24 am

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 21:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 08:20 am

imadangman wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 15:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 13:05 pm Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

Very little power, see a 25 HR hitter in that bunch since you have Gorman on your bench.

That group has no true #3 hitter or clean-up man.

They would have to all hit for high averages, stringing together multiple hits to score runs.

NO TEAM can build a serious playoff contender using all strictly from within their organization.

Honestly dangman they're going to have to acquire at least one true MOTO bat (two if they want to have a shot at another WS) or that lineup could be trouble.

Walker and Gorman are both potential MOTO bats.

We'd all hope for that, but HOPE is not a strategy.

Walker isn't close to being a MOTO bat, he's shown little power potential in spite of his 6'6"/255 lb frame.

Gorman has the power but we all know his problem is constantly putting the bat on the ball enough times to reach that potential.

If pressed, I'd put my money on Gorman but it would be Mad Money I could afford to lose.

NO true MOTO bats in the entire organization.

That lineup above will require BDWJr to spend BIG money on one.

If he doesn't and C. Bloom can't pull a "Walt Jocketty like" highway robbery (re: J. Edmonds/S. Rolen) type trade, then this team will never again compete for a WS title.

JMO

The good news is a team with 6-7 solid hitters doesn't absolutely HAVE to have a MOTO bat. Putting the hot hitters in the 3-4 spots can work if the team is also defensively sound and has a good pitching staff.

Still is nice to have that one bat that scares opposing pitchers. Notice how carefully they pitch to Harper. But having a Pujols like batter is a luxury if you aren't LAD or NYY.

Disagree 100% (although you did CYA w/that second paragraph )

First that group doesn't have 6-7 "solid" hitters w/established MLB resumes.

Second, you absolutely have to have some power bats in the middle of the order that can turn men on base into three, four run innings instead of having to scrap out three singles just to get a run.

I didn't say they HAVE 6-7 solid bats. I said it is possible to be a contender with that kind of lineup. No need to CYA since I stand by it. That guy who scares you in the middle is a luxury for many teams.

Got to go in 5 minutes so quick lookup.

2015 Royals
2016 Indians
2023 D Backs

ALl of them capped out with a guy at about 125-130 OPS+.

Gotcha

I just assumed we were talking about the Cardinals when you said: "good news is a team with 6-7 solid hitters".

-2015 Royals had three 20+ HR's hitters in the MOTO, Hosmer had 18

-2016 Indians had Napoli w/34 HR's + Santana w/34 HR's + a young Ramirez that's big time MOTO power

-2023 DBacks had Walker w/33 HR's + Marte w/25 HR's + Gurriel w/24 HR's again a lot of MOTO damage


That group of Cardinals listed above would struggle to have one 20 HR hitter, Gorman and he was listed on the bench.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 13:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 12:01 pm

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 11:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 11:35 am

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:51 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Apr 2025 09:24 am

Cranny wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 21:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑12 Apr 2025 08:20 am

imadangman wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 15:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Apr 2025 13:05 pm Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

Very little power, see a 25 HR hitter in that bunch since you have Gorman on your bench.

That group has no true #3 hitter or clean-up man.

They would have to all hit for high averages, stringing together multiple hits to score runs.

NO TEAM can build a serious playoff contender using all strictly from within their organization.

Honestly dangman they're going to have to acquire at least one true MOTO bat (two if they want to have a shot at another WS) or that lineup could be trouble.

Walker and Gorman are both potential MOTO bats.

We'd all hope for that, but HOPE is not a strategy.

Walker isn't close to being a MOTO bat, he's shown little power potential in spite of his 6'6"/255 lb frame.

Gorman has the power but we all know his problem is constantly putting the bat on the ball enough times to reach that potential.

If pressed, I'd put my money on Gorman but it would be Mad Money I could afford to lose.

NO true MOTO bats in the entire organization.

That lineup above will require BDWJr to spend BIG money on one.

If he doesn't and C. Bloom can't pull a "Walt Jocketty like" highway robbery (re: J. Edmonds/S. Rolen) type trade, then this team will never again compete for a WS title.

JMO

The good news is a team with 6-7 solid hitters doesn't absolutely HAVE to have a MOTO bat. Putting the hot hitters in the 3-4 spots can work if the team is also defensively sound and has a good pitching staff.

Still is nice to have that one bat that scares opposing pitchers. Notice how carefully they pitch to Harper. But having a Pujols like batter is a luxury if you aren't LAD or NYY.

Disagree 100% (although you did CYA w/that second paragraph )

First that group doesn't have 6-7 "solid" hitters w/established MLB resumes.

Second, you absolutely have to have some power bats in the middle of the order that can turn men on base into three, four run innings instead of having to scrap out three singles just to get a run.

I didn't say they HAVE 6-7 solid bats. I said it is possible to be a contender with that kind of lineup. No need to CYA since I stand by it. That guy who scares you in the middle is a luxury for many teams.

Got to go in 5 minutes so quick lookup.

2015 Royals
2016 Indians
2023 D Backs

ALl of them capped out with a guy at about 125-130 OPS+.

Gotcha

I just assumed we were talking about the Cardinals when you said: "good news is a team with 6-7 solid hitters".

-2015 Royals had three 20+ HR's hitters in the MOTO, Hosmer had 18

-2016 Indians had Napoli w/34 HR's + Santana w/34 HR's + a young Ramirez that's big time MOTO power

-2023 DBacks had Walker w/33 HR's + Marte w/25 HR's + Gurriel w/24 HR's again a lot of MOTO damage


That group of Cardinals listed above would struggle to have one 20 HR hitter, Gorman and he was listed on the bench.

My examples might have been poor. I was in a rush. Had a guitar lesson and needed to warm up.

OK but the concept remains. If STL can come thru 2026 with 5-6 solid hitters under cost control they can add a MOTO bat. Personally I'm more inclined to see a solid 1-9 lineup and excellent and deep pitching. Whatever. We will see who shakes out the next two years and who is a pretender. By 2027 we should know.

Going to be interesting to see how they use that #5 pick. They MUST score a player with a high ceiling. Don't care what his position is so long as it's either ace pitcher or potential power hitter with contact skills.