Future position player group

[imadangman]

Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Here's what I think. This may be a tough season to watch but I like that there are about 4 players on the current team that appear to be in their correct position on the field longterm.

C:
1B:
2B:
SS: Winn
3B:
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:

So whatever happens, I think those 4 players need to get as much time at those positions as they can.

Let's take it a step further. I'm going to look to 2026-27 and fill in some more positions.

C: Crooks or Bernal (Pages a solid backup)
1B: Herrera
2B: Wetherholt
SS: Winn
3B: (Arenado)
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:

..................

Good post. In general I agree that there appears to be an emerging core of young players under control and with talent. This is the year to see which of them becomes AAAA, a solid MLer, or a star MLer. I expect some of the ones listed will end up being just OK. Some good. And a few stars. Which is fine you augment with FAs.

Pitching will be the issue and my main concern beyond 2025-2026. I would be happier if there was just one guy who looked like an ace level pitcher in the system. The penalty for never drafting early and a few mistakes has a barren cupboard in that regard. I think we are lucky the depth I am seeing on the offensive side.

As a wrap IMO the future core STL needs to emerge to be a contender for a title includes:

Herrera, Saggese, Weatherholt, Gorman, Winn, Scott, Walker, Noot. And one needs to take a step up past solid ML player to star ML player. Or more than one.

[NYCardsFan]

Here's what I think. This may be a tough season to watch but I like that there are about 4 players on the current team that appear to be in their correct position on the field longterm.

C:
1B:
2B:
SS: Winn
3B:
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:

So whatever happens, I think those 4 players need to get as much time at those positions as they can.

Let's take it a step further. I'm going to look to 2026-27 and fill in some more positions.

C: Crooks or Bernal (Pages a solid backup)
1B: Herrera
2B: Wetherholt
SS: Winn
3B: (Arenado)
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:

..................

Good post. In general I agree that there appears to be an emerging core of young players under control and with talent. This is the year to see which of them becomes AAAA, a solid MLer, or a star MLer. I expect some of the ones listed will end up being just OK. Some good. And a few stars. Which is fine you augment with FAs.

Pitching will be the issue and my main concern beyond 2025-2026. I would be happier if there was just one guy who looked like an ace level pitcher in the system. The penalty for never drafting early and a few mistakes has a barren cupboard in that regard. I think we are lucky the depth I am seeing on the offensive side.

As a wrap IMO the future core STL needs to emerge to be a contender for a title includes:

Herrera, Saggese, Weatherholt, Gorman, Winn, Scott, Walker, Noot. And one needs to take a step up past solid ML player to star ML player. Or more than one.

One thing the farm system hasn’t produced in some time is a player who can stack 4+ WAR at one position for multiple seasons (i.e., All-Star level production). The last guy from the system who did that was Matt Carpenter, and he matriculated 13 years ago. Will Wetherholt/Winn/Walker/Gorman become that type of player? I guess we’ll see.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I agree with your general premise. We do have some pretty decent position players to work with and we will be pretty strong defensively up the middle. You don't make mention of Contreras. It's hard to see a world where he isn't the 1B for the seasons you mention. That leaves Herrera without a clear spot. With his bat, a spot will be made. That may leave one of the other position players you list as "extra". Some combination of Burleson, Gorman, a catcher, and the "extra" could be used to acquire pitching.

I suppose with Contreras, we will learn some things by the end of this season. We will learn whether he is a consistent hitter who is an even more productive hitter as a 1B, and who is just a slow starter. Or we will learn that he is inconsistent and aging and taking up a roster spot. Herrera has shown us that he can hit. For the purpose of future planning I want to nail down Herrera with a preemptive position.

So I guess I'd put Contreras in the "extra" category. Between Contreras and Herrera, you'd have a viable tandem that can swap DH/1B for 2026. I don't like viewing Herrera as an OF, beyond minimally necessary, because I want the current 3 to play together because that's our best overall unit offense and defense.

So the "other" category will have Contreras (splitting time with Herrera at 1B/DH), Arenado (aging), Saggese(can fill in all over the field), Gorman(can fill in 1B, 2B, 3B) as a group that can be mixed and matched at 1B/3B/DH among other positions.

I guess the premise of the post is that we are in a pretty good spot with position players. Of course, you need more than 9 to fill out a roster (you need like 13). So we should have about 13 with all of these "other" players. And, it looks like my premise is that there might be 6 or 7 positions where we can go ahead and project an above average starting player at each position, offense and defense considered.

I can't put Contreras in the "extra" category because to me, they are all available to trade for pitching. You can't trade Willson if he doesn't want to go, and he says he doesn't. i agree with you about wanting to nail down a position for Herrera, but I don't want him or Contreras or anyone else considered the DH. That spot would be best rotated among many. Figuring out what Herrera's position is, or will be, is one of the valuable things that could be done this year.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I agree with your general premise. We do have some pretty decent position players to work with and we will be pretty strong defensively up the middle. You don't make mention of Contreras. It's hard to see a world where he isn't the 1B for the seasons you mention. That leaves Herrera without a clear spot. With his bat, a spot will be made. That may leave one of the other position players you list as "extra". Some combination of Burleson, Gorman, a catcher, and the "extra" could be used to acquire pitching.

I suppose with Contreras, we will learn some things by the end of this season. We will learn whether he is a consistent hitter who is an even more productive hitter as a 1B, and who is just a slow starter. Or we will learn that he is inconsistent and aging and taking up a roster spot. Herrera has shown us that he can hit. For the purpose of future planning I want to nail down Herrera with a preemptive position.

So I guess I'd put Contreras in the "extra" category. Between Contreras and Herrera, you'd have a viable tandem that can swap DH/1B for 2026. I don't like viewing Herrera as an OF, beyond minimally necessary, because I want the current 3 to play together because that's our best overall unit offense and defense.

So the "other" category will have Contreras (splitting time with Herrera at 1B/DH), Arenado (aging), Saggese(can fill in all over the field), Gorman(can fill in 1B, 2B, 3B) as a group that can be mixed and matched at 1B/3B/DH among other positions.

I guess the premise of the post is that we are in a pretty good spot with position players. Of course, you need more than 9 to fill out a roster (you need like 13). So we should have about 13 with all of these "other" players. And, it looks like my premise is that there might be 6 or 7 positions where we can go ahead and project an above average starting player at each position, offense and defense considered.

I can't put Contreras in the "extra" category because to me, they are all available to trade for pitching. You can't trade Willson if he doesn't want to go, and he says he doesn't. i agree with you about wanting to nail down a position for Herrera, but I don't want him or Contreras or anyone else considered the DH. That spot would be best rotated among many. Figuring out what Herrera's position is, or will be, is one of the valuable things that could be done this year.

If they decide his position is C (I really want his bat in the lineup for 150 games), that's fine, but let's don't gripe about his defense and his arm every week that he is here until he leaves.

[thetank2]

Chaim Bloom is going to have an interesting group of hitters and ones that he can deal for pitching. Hopefully he will be better at talent evaluation than Mo on which ones to deal and which ones to keep.

Boston fans are laughing at us regarding Bloom.

[WLTFE]

Chaim Bloom is going to have an interesting group of hitters and ones that he can deal for pitching. Hopefully he will be better at talent evaluation than Mo on which ones to deal and which ones to keep.

Boston fans are laughing at us regarding Bloom.

Yawn...you have no influence here

[imadangman]

Chaim Bloom is going to have an interesting group of hitters and ones that he can deal for pitching. Hopefully he will be better at talent evaluation than Mo on which ones to deal and which ones to keep.

Boston fans are laughing at us regarding Bloom.

I guess we have our first "Bloom Basher," in before the crowd (and before Bloom even assumes the position).

[AnExParrot]

Chaim Bloom is going to have an interesting group of hitters and ones that he can deal for pitching. Hopefully he will be better at talent evaluation than Mo on which ones to deal and which ones to keep.

Boston fans are laughing at us regarding Bloom.

I guess we have our first "Bloom Basher," in before the crowd (and before Bloom even assumes the position).

tank's been at it pretty much since the Bloom hire.

[imadangman]

Chaim Bloom is going to have an interesting group of hitters and ones that he can deal for pitching. Hopefully he will be better at talent evaluation than Mo on which ones to deal and which ones to keep.

Boston fans are laughing at us regarding Bloom.

I guess we have our first "Bloom Basher," in before the crowd (and before Bloom even assumes the position).

tank's been at it pretty much since the Bloom hire.

He's been at something, that's for sure

[82birds]

Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

perhaps, if the pitching is very much upgraded

[Talkin' Baseball]

Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

perhaps, if the pitching is very much upgraded

Well, we know that Mikolas and Matz will be gone. Erick Fedde will probably be traded for somebody. I'm not saying that it's 50-50, but I think there is at least some sort of chance that Gray would accept a trade of his liking at the deadline. We need McGreevy, Mathews and Liberatore to amount to something, and as mentioned earlier in this thread, some of the positional redundancies will be converted into pitching. I don't know if it will work, but it will be interesting.

[rockondlouie]

Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

Very little power, see a 25 HR hitter in that bunch since you have Gorman on your bench.

That group has no true #3 hitter or clean-up man.

They would have to all hit for high averages, stringing together multiple hits to score runs.

NO TEAM can build a serious playoff contender using all strictly from within their organization.

Honestly dangman they're going to have to acquire at least one true MOTO bat (two if they want to have a shot at another WS) or that lineup could be trouble.

[Cranny]

Good legwork dangman

But we're in trouble if that's even close to our everyday roster.

LF Nootbaar
1B Herrera
2B Wetherholt
3B Arenado
DH Donovan
RF Walker
C Crooks
CF Scott II
SS Winn

Bench: Contreras, Saggese (rh), Gorman (lh)... Davis, etc.

Let's say that's something similar to the opening day lineup for 2026. How are you so sure we would be "in trouble?" It might be a pretty good team.

Very little power, see a 25 HR hitter in that bunch since you have Gorman on your bench.

That group has no true #3 hitter or clean-up man.

They would have to all hit for high averages, stringing together multiple hits to score runs.

NO TEAM can build a serious playoff contender using all strictly from within their organization.

Honestly dangman they're going to have to acquire at least one true MOTO bat (two if they want to have a shot at another WS) or that lineup could be trouble.

Walker and Gorman are both potential MOTO bats.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Here's what I think. This may be a tough season to watch but I like that there are about 4 players on the current team that appear to be in their correct position on the field longterm.

C:
1B:
2B:
SS: Winn
3B:
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:

So whatever happens, I think those 4 players need to get as much time at those positions as they can.

Let's take it a step further. I'm going to look to 2026-27 and fill in some more positions.

C: Crooks or Bernal (Pages a solid backup)
1B: Herrera
2B: Wetherholt
SS: Winn
3B: (Arenado)
LF: Nootbaar
CF: Scott II
RF: Walker
DH:

..................

Good post. In general I agree that there appears to be an emerging core of young players under control and with talent. This is the year to see which of them becomes AAAA, a solid MLer, or a star MLer. I expect some of the ones listed will end up being just OK. Some good. And a few stars. Which is fine you augment with FAs.

Pitching will be the issue and my main concern beyond 2025-2026. I would be happier if there was just one guy who looked like an ace level pitcher in the system. The penalty for never drafting early and a few mistakes has a barren cupboard in that regard. I think we are lucky the depth I am seeing on the offensive side.

As a wrap IMO the future core STL needs to emerge to be a contender for a title includes:

Herrera, Saggese, Weatherholt, Gorman, Winn, Scott, Walker, Noot. And one needs to take a step up past solid ML player to star ML player. Or more than one.

One thing the farm system hasn’t produced in some time is a player who can stack 4+ WAR at one position for multiple seasons (i.e., All-Star level production). The last guy from the system who did that was Matt Carpenter, and he matriculated 13 years ago. Will Wetherholt/Winn/Walker/Gorman become that type of player? I guess we’ll see.

I didn't realize it was that long of a drought. They do need at least one of the kids to be a real star. I am not sure there is one but ranking them:

Winn - I don't think so. I think he IS a major league SS who can hit league average and play above average defense. But not that 4 WAR guy.

Walker - hmm. I think we will see this year if he is really a power hitter. Fingers crossed but no guess really.

Gorman - like Walker this is the year. Put up or....... Also no guess as to if he becomes a star.

Weatherholt - lots of scouts are really high on him. But until we see him in the majors who knows.

Saggese - Some round here call him a JAG. Jury is out for me. He has advanced ahead of his age group and dominated AA at age 21-22. There is hope.

Scott - well if we include dWAR this is a guy who I think might be one who could put up 4 WAR for the next several years. Jury is still out but if he can continue at the pace he is on for a 500 AB season. But if he does he will give 10 hrs, 70 rbis, 740 OPS, 111 OPS+ and 5 WAR. Yeah short sample and the league might find a hole but fingers crossed.

The nice thing is there is a group of guys any one of which MIGHT break out which is new and nice. If two of them do STL can contend by 2027 for real assuming proper use of salary available and FAs signed.

[Cranny]

Walker has monster power if he just tries to barrel the ball and hit line drives. Many will leave the park.