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Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:02 pm

Mort Gage wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 17:51 pm If the Cardinals were smart enough to have traded Fedde for prospects they wouldn't have had to make the Liberatore-McGreevy choice.

Now this I agree with 100% it’s mind boggling they kept a guy who they aren’t going to sign long term or even offer a QO to in a year they say they are playing the kids so he can take the spot of a kid

He cost $7 million...no need to trade it...still need starters to pitch morans

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:02 pm

Mort Gage wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 17:51 pm If the Cardinals were smart enough to have traded Fedde for prospects they wouldn't have had to make the Liberatore-McGreevy choice.

Now this I agree with 100% it’s mind boggling they kept a guy who they aren’t going to sign long term or even offer a QO to in a year they say they are playing the kids so he can take the spot of a kid

He cost $7 million...no need to trade it...still need starters to pitch morans

I would say you’re the Moran Mr. Jj should make the team because he was drafted high and college was his minor leagues lol what a (bleep)

I try not to repeat myself but I commented earlier that I understand giving Libby one more shot at starting.
He has proven himself to be a big league pitcher out of the BP.
In a year that figures to be loaded with “evaluations” why not??

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:33 pm
Because they are actually for a change letting him be a starter
Not mishandling him by juggling him from rotation to bullpen a back. It may very well fail. If they had handled him
Correctly early on they would already know but they didn’t. I’m glad they will find out once and for all by handling him correctly

He was given opportunities; his performance forced them to put him in the bullpen.

In his first year he was almost exclusively a starter, 7GS in 9 appearances. His first six games were as a starter, with an underwhelming 4.74 ERA. His final start raised that to 5.46.

In his second year 11 of his first 12 games were starts and he compiled a 6.12 ERA. He was then switched to the bullpen and was unscored on in 9 of his 10 games (1.54 ERA).

Last year he was basically a reliever (54 of 60 games) and had a 3.69 ERA as a reliever and a 6.35 ERA as a starter.

I would disagree that they somehow "mishandled" him by putting him in the bullpen after being given chances to start and not getting the job done. Putting him back in the rotation while he has shown to be a quite serviceable reliever may actually be mishandling him.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:04 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:02 pm

Mort Gage wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 17:51 pm If the Cardinals were smart enough to have traded Fedde for prospects they wouldn't have had to make the Liberatore-McGreevy choice.

Now this I agree with 100% it’s mind boggling they kept a guy who they aren’t going to sign long term or even offer a QO to in a year they say they are playing the kids so he can take the spot of a kid

He cost $7 million...no need to trade it...still need starters to pitch morans

I would say you’re the Moran Mr. Jj should make the team because he was drafted high and college was his minor leagues lol what a (bleep)

If Fedde does what the Cards hope, he will cover precious innings and could be a TD candidate for a valuable trade chip. Libby and McGreevy will still get plenty of starts and won’t be exhausted at the end of season if we’re in the hunt. I say let the professionals in the FO make the call.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:13 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:04 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:02 pm

Mort Gage wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 17:51 pm If the Cardinals were smart enough to have traded Fedde for prospects they wouldn't have had to make the Liberatore-McGreevy choice.

Now this I agree with 100% it’s mind boggling they kept a guy who they aren’t going to sign long term or even offer a QO to in a year they say they are playing the kids so he can take the spot of a kid

He cost $7 million...no need to trade it...still need starters to pitch morans

I would say you’re the Moran Mr. Jj should make the team because he was drafted high and college was his minor leagues lol what a (bleep)

If Fedde does what the Cards hope, he will cover precious innings and could be a TD candidate for a valuable trade chip. Libby and McGreevy will still get plenty of starts and won’t be exhausted at the end of season if we’re in the hunt. I say let the professionals in the FO make the call.

Agree.
We pretty much know that Matz and Mikolas will be gone before ST 2026.
If not sooner? (Deadline in July)
I’m sure if the Cards are approached with a strong offer for Fedde he could be dealt.
He came back from Korea and had a strong season.
Can he repeat it?
I say it’s worth finding out for $7.5M.
If he pitches really well and wants to stay in St. Louis then great.
Can still deal him at the deadline also.

Cusecards wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:24 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:13 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:04 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:02 pm

Mort Gage wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 17:51 pm If the Cardinals were smart enough to have traded Fedde for prospects they wouldn't have had to make the Liberatore-McGreevy choice.

Now this I agree with 100% it’s mind boggling they kept a guy who they aren’t going to sign long term or even offer a QO to in a year they say they are playing the kids so he can take the spot of a kid

He cost $7 million...no need to trade it...still need starters to pitch morans

I would say you’re the Moran Mr. Jj should make the team because he was drafted high and college was his minor leagues lol what a (bleep)

If Fedde does what the Cards hope, he will cover precious innings and could be a TD candidate for a valuable trade chip. Libby and McGreevy will still get plenty of starts and won’t be exhausted at the end of season if we’re in the hunt. I say let the professionals in the FO make the call.

Agree.
We pretty much know that Matz and Mikolas will be gone before ST 2026.
If not sooner? (Deadline in July)
I’m sure if the Cards are approached with a strong offer for Fedde he could be dealt.
He came back from Korea and had a strong season.
Can he repeat it?
I say it’s worth finding out for $7.5M.
If he pitches really well and wants to stay in St. Louis then great.
Can still deal him at the deadline also.

Exactly.

This is a rebuild season or should be. I’m fine with Libby getting a shot at SP.

I’m fine with McGreevy etc going to the minors. It’s not going to hurt them.

Imo best case scenario is Mikolas Fedde Matz pitch well the first half of the season and are traded for prospects. Second half of the season the rotation is Gray Pallante Libby McGreevy Matthews.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:13 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:04 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:02 pm

Mort Gage wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 17:51 pm If the Cardinals were smart enough to have traded Fedde for prospects they wouldn't have had to make the Liberatore-McGreevy choice.

Now this I agree with 100% it’s mind boggling they kept a guy who they aren’t going to sign long term or even offer a QO to in a year they say they are playing the kids so he can take the spot of a kid

He cost $7 million...no need to trade it...still need starters to pitch morans

I would say you’re the Moran Mr. Jj should make the team because he was drafted high and college was his minor leagues lol what a (bleep)

If Fedde does what the Cards hope, he will cover precious innings and could be a TD candidate for a valuable trade chip. Libby and McGreevy will still get plenty of starts and won’t be exhausted at the end of season if we’re in the hunt. I say let the professionals in the FO make the call.

Yes if he does what the cards hope and the professionals in FO are what have got the cards in the mess they are in

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:30 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:24 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:13 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:04 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:02 pm

Mort Gage wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 17:51 pm If the Cardinals were smart enough to have traded Fedde for prospects they wouldn't have had to make the Liberatore-McGreevy choice.

Now this I agree with 100% it’s mind boggling they kept a guy who they aren’t going to sign long term or even offer a QO to in a year they say they are playing the kids so he can take the spot of a kid

He cost $7 million...no need to trade it...still need starters to pitch morans

I would say you’re the Moran Mr. Jj should make the team because he was drafted high and college was his minor leagues lol what a (bleep)

If Fedde does what the Cards hope, he will cover precious innings and could be a TD candidate for a valuable trade chip. Libby and McGreevy will still get plenty of starts and won’t be exhausted at the end of season if we’re in the hunt. I say let the professionals in the FO make the call.

Agree.
We pretty much know that Matz and Mikolas will be gone before ST 2026.
If not sooner? (Deadline in July)
I’m sure if the Cards are approached with a strong offer for Fedde he could be dealt.
He came back from Korea and had a strong season.
Can he repeat it?
I say it’s worth finding out for $7.5M.
If he pitches really well and wants to stay in St. Louis then great.
Can still deal him at the deadline also.

Exactly.

Thanks!
Look I get that fans are antsy and have a lot of questions.
I do as well.
I see a lot of guys(mostly under contract control for multiple years) having to prove themselves in 2025.
Play ball.
It’s also not like we don’t have promising guys pushing those guys(McGreevy, Mathews, Hence, Roby, Graceffo, JJ, Davis, Crooks, Bernal, etc).
Patience!

Olemiss540 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 14:13 pm Worried this is going to knock us out of the pennant race?

Exactly. This team is going nowhere and it needs to find out what the young guys can (or can’t) do.
What exactly does Gibson do? Get the team more innings with a high ERA? Hold back others’ development?
I’m all in on McGreevy but if they ever want to see if Libby can be a starter, this is the year.
McGreevy will be here this year. They’ll trade one (or more) of Fedde or Mikolas (or Gray if he gives up on NTC).

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:13 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:04 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:02 pm

Mort Gage wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 17:51 pm If the Cardinals were smart enough to have traded Fedde for prospects they wouldn't have had to make the Liberatore-McGreevy choice.

Now this I agree with 100% it’s mind boggling they kept a guy who they aren’t going to sign long term or even offer a QO to in a year they say they are playing the kids so he can take the spot of a kid

He cost $7 million...no need to trade it...still need starters to pitch morans

I would say you’re the Moran Mr. Jj should make the team because he was drafted high and college was his minor leagues lol what a (bleep)

If Fedde does what the Cards hope, he will cover precious innings and could be a TD candidate for a valuable trade chip. Libby and McGreevy will still get plenty of starts and won’t be exhausted at the end of season if we’re in the hunt. I say let the professionals in the FO make the call.

I agree with the Fedde thing, but not Matz and Mikolas. The only reason they are even on the team is because of their contracts. The DeWitts demand that they play. There are some of your Professionals ! Ha Ha !

I insist that Libby be starter in 2025. One more shot at him as a SP without yo-yo-ing him.

It's all on me. I'm the one to blame.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:02 pm

Mort Gage wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 17:51 pm If the Cardinals were smart enough to have traded Fedde for prospects they wouldn't have had to make the Liberatore-McGreevy choice.

Now this I agree with 100% it’s mind boggling they kept a guy who they aren’t going to sign long term or even offer a QO to in a year they say they are playing the kids so he can take the spot of a kid

He cost $7 million...no need to trade it...still need starters to pitch morans

The "Moran" meme is as dead as Erin is. And we have some depth to handle the innings. Hang in there.

freed5179 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 19:12 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2025 18:33 pm
Because they are actually for a change letting him be a starter
Not mishandling him by juggling him from rotation to bullpen a back. It may very well fail. If they had handled him
Correctly early on they would already know but they didn’t. I’m glad they will find out once and for all by handling him correctly

He was given opportunities; his performance forced them to put him in the bullpen.

In his first year he was almost exclusively a starter, 7GS in 9 appearances. His first six games were as a starter, with an underwhelming 4.74 ERA. His final start raised that to 5.46.

In his second year 11 of his first 12 games were starts and he compiled a 6.12 ERA. He was then switched to the bullpen and was unscored on in 9 of his 10 games (1.54 ERA).

Last year he was basically a reliever (54 of 60 games) and had a 3.69 ERA as a reliever and a 6.35 ERA as a starter.

I would disagree that they somehow "mishandled" him by putting him in the bullpen after being given chances to start and not getting the job done. Putting him back in the rotation while he has shown to be a quite serviceable reliever may actually be mishandling him.

If you truly believe in a starter you should give him more than a handful of starts, even if he may not have been pitching all that well. They would put him in the bullpen as soon as they did. Of course a lot of his mishandling also happened long before reaching the mlb. They had him completely skip A+ and AA because Mo was desperate to show they had gotten a good return for Arozarena after criticism over trading him and his immediate success in the postseason in 2020, so they rushed Libby.

I think its great they are going to start Libby. He is still young and obviously talented. Sometimes a takes a young starter time to figure it out. I remember many years ago many Braves fans saying the same thing about Glavine, since he had minimal success in his first few years a starter. Glavine later said getting knocked around and learning how to use the pitches he had was invaluable as he aged and got better as a starter. If Libby can't cut it as a starter with an extended look then he can always go back into the bullpen, but he looks like a different pitcher to me. He is much more confident out there. I always thought he, Pallante, and McGreevey should be in the rotation with Fedde and Gray, or if Fedde was traded with Matz. Mikolas is just in the way of the Cardinals moving on, sort of like Arenado is with the position players. Not being able to trade Nolan screws it up for at least five other younger players to get more at bats. Mikolas is doing the same thing to McGreevey and soon Matthews.