Have the HBP taken a toll on Ivan Herrera?

[Jatalk]

Very possible.

As have the foul tips off his (fill in the body part) while catching along w/a sore right hand from catching 90+ MPH fastballs.

I'd like to see C. Bloom/Oli sit him down now and tell him:

"Ivan you're a big part of this team going forward...............just NOT behind the plate".

DH him the remainder of the season.

Give him a 1st baseman's mitt next spring and then give him some time vs LHSP's (Burly get's a day off) next season.

But let him know his catching days are over.

He has NO VALUE behind the plate especially w/L. Bernal & of course R.R. steaming towards St. Louis.

His future here is at DH and as a possible P-T (25%) 1st baseman vs LHSP.

JMO

Agree or make part of a big trade deal. Catchers are in demand albeit he has some issues.

IF Herrera cannot catch at least part-time, he loses value, imo.
IF the teams full-time catcher is not complete on both sides of the ball
then Herrera complicates the roster when you have IH at the DH you
need that 3rd catcher, who probably is even less productive.

I don't see Herrera bat being quite enough to create such clutter and this
opinion isn't putting it all on IH, the full-time guy needs to be more.
Imagine if either Crooks or Bernal had Langelier's production.

I get your point but there are teams in playoff contention that have hurt catchers. While not their top choice there may not be enough trade options to go around. Who knows?

[Melville]

I doubt it. Miklasz said on his show Marmol is playing him too much.

Nonsense.
He has never known what he is talking about.
Playing time has nothing to do with it.
Rather, this is simply who Herrera has always been.
A singles hitter who every now and then goes on a brief run of XBH's.
I documented this last season when everyone other than I was badly fooled by a brief stretch of a few weeks in September.
I said Herrera would repeat the same pattern this year - and, of course, I was right.
In May, Herrera 9 XBH's - which was pretty good.
Some here (I am too much the gentlemen to name names) heralded that as proving Herrera was a key long term fixture for STL for years to come.
I said give him time.
Sure enough.
In June he had 4 XBH's.
In July, he has racked up an impressive 2 XBH's.
Doesn't make him a bad guy.
Just extremely streaky.
And most certainly not a core player.

But has he been in this long of a slump before? Not in my recollection.

Yes, he has.
This is his normal pattern.
In July of last year he had one XBH for the entire month.
In September of last year he had 10 XBH in the month.
Simply who he is.
35 career HR - and a quarter of that came in one month.
Others were instantly fooled.
I was not.

[MIDMOBIRDTWO]

Maybe they can trade him to Seattle.

[rockondlouie]

Very possible.

As have the foul tips off his (fill in the body part) while catching along w/a sore right hand from catching 90+ MPH fastballs.

I'd like to see C. Bloom/Oli sit him down now and tell him:

"Ivan you're a big part of this team going forward...............just NOT behind the plate".

DH him the remainder of the season.

Give him a 1st baseman's mitt next spring and then give him some time vs LHSP's (Burly get's a day off) next season.

But let him know his catching days are over.

He has NO VALUE behind the plate especially w/L. Bernal & of course R.R. steaming towards St. Louis.

His future here is at DH and as a possible P-T (25%) 1st baseman vs LHSP.

JMO

Agree or make part of a big trade deal. Catchers are in demand albeit he has some issues.

Sure he's had his struggles this season but if we look at his prior seasons he's a terrific hitter who can DH and (hopefully) learn to play 1st base this coming spring so he can spell Burly when a tough LHSP is on the bump.

I wouldn't deal him unless the return is an equal MAJOR LEAGUE player w/years of control, NO PROSPECTS!

[Wattage]

Very possible.

As have the foul tips off his (fill in the body part) while catching along w/a sore right hand from catching 90+ MPH fastballs.

I'd like to see C. Bloom/Oli sit him down now and tell him:

"Ivan you're a big part of this team going forward...............just NOT behind the plate".

DH him the remainder of the season.

Give him a 1st baseman's mitt next spring and then give him some time vs LHSP's (Burly get's a day off) next season.

But let him know his catching days are over.

He has NO VALUE behind the plate especially w/L. Bernal & of course R.R. steaming towards St. Louis.

His future here is at DH and as a possible P-T (25%) 1st baseman vs LHSP.

JMO

i think the team wanted to move that direction last year when they tried moving him to outfield for a few games but ivan voiced he still wants to catch

might be a pride or familiarity thing for him. while he had a few isolated 1b games he basically exclusiveky catcher since he was a teenager in hugh school and didnt want to give that up.

[ecleme22]

Maybe it’s more about catching.

Maybe he’s just a really good hitter in a slump.

[JDW]

Am always worried one of those HBP will break his hand or something along those lines. Really admire Herrera, and go ahead cut down his catching all you want, but that has value with his ability to do that plus the relationship/confidence he fosters with the pitchers. That said, like Rock, give him a 1B glove to expand his positional resume. Lots of teams would want that bat, especially when his arms and hands aren't battered and bruised.
IF they trade Herrera, get a great return ............................... or else, collectively CT has a long memory, lol, and the benefit of hindsight.

[rockondlouie]

Very possible.

As have the foul tips off his (fill in the body part) while catching along w/a sore right hand from catching 90+ MPH fastballs.

I'd like to see C. Bloom/Oli sit him down now and tell him:

"Ivan you're a big part of this team going forward...............just NOT behind the plate".

DH him the remainder of the season.

Give him a 1st baseman's mitt next spring and then give him some time vs LHSP's (Burly get's a day off) next season.

But let him know his catching days are over.

He has NO VALUE behind the plate especially w/L. Bernal & of course R.R. steaming towards St. Louis.

His future here is at DH and as a possible P-T (25%) 1st baseman vs LHSP.

JMO

i think the team wanted to move that direction last year when they tried moving him to outfield for a few games but ivan voiced he still wants to catch

might be a pride or familiarity thing for him. while he had a few isolated 1b games he basically exclusiveky catcher since he was a teenager in hugh school and didnt want to give that up.

Yep, I remember starting a thread suggesting just that (Herrera to LF) before 2025 spring training.

But he looked really uncomfortable out there, that's no longer an option.

DH/P-T 1st baseman when a LHSP is on the mound (roughly 25+% of the time) is his best option.

[Wattage]

Very possible.

As have the foul tips off his (fill in the body part) while catching along w/a sore right hand from catching 90+ MPH fastballs.

I'd like to see C. Bloom/Oli sit him down now and tell him:

"Ivan you're a big part of this team going forward...............just NOT behind the plate".

DH him the remainder of the season.

Give him a 1st baseman's mitt next spring and then give him some time vs LHSP's (Burly get's a day off) next season.

But let him know his catching days are over.

He has NO VALUE behind the plate especially w/L. Bernal & of course R.R. steaming towards St. Louis.

His future here is at DH and as a possible P-T (25%) 1st baseman vs LHSP.

JMO

i think the team wanted to move that direction last year when they tried moving him to outfield for a few games but ivan voiced he still wants to catch

might be a pride or familiarity thing for him. while he had a few isolated 1b games he basically exclusiveky catcher since he was a teenager in hugh school and didnt want to give that up.

Yep, I remember starting a thread suggesting just that (Herrera to LF) before 2025 spring training.

But he looked really uncomfortable out there, that's no longer an option.

DH/P-T 1st baseman when a LHSP is on the mound (roughly 25+% of the time) is his best option.

to be fair, so did walker after spending half a minir league season and full spring practicing for it. it took awhile but walker looms fine now.

we just threw herrera there cold with a couple weeks if practice time there at most.

i think the bigger issue is whether herrera wants to give up catching.

[renostl]

Very possible.

As have the foul tips off his (fill in the body part) while catching along w/a sore right hand from catching 90+ MPH fastballs.

I'd like to see C. Bloom/Oli sit him down now and tell him:

"Ivan you're a big part of this team going forward...............just NOT behind the plate".

DH him the remainder of the season.

Give him a 1st baseman's mitt next spring and then give him some time vs LHSP's (Burly get's a day off) next season.

But let him know his catching days are over.

He has NO VALUE behind the plate especially w/L. Bernal & of course R.R. steaming towards St. Louis.

His future here is at DH and as a possible P-T (25%) 1st baseman vs LHSP.

JMO

Agree or make part of a big trade deal. Catchers are in demand albeit he has some issues.

IF Herrera cannot catch at least part-time, he loses value, imo.
IF the teams full-time catcher is not complete on both sides of the ball
then Herrera complicates the roster when you have IH at the DH you
need that 3rd catcher, who probably is even less productive.

I don't see Herrera bat being quite enough to create such clutter and this
opinion isn't putting it all on IH, the full-time guy needs to be more.
Imagine if either Crooks or Bernal had Langelier's production.

I get your point but there are teams in playoff contention that have hurt catchers. While not their top choice there may not be enough trade options to go around. Who knows?

I'm actually agreeing with your POV.
IF Herrera isn't going to catch and that may
not be totally due to his own catching abilities
but also with the very near depth being better at C,
then you have to at least think about it.

[rockondlouie]

Very possible.

As have the foul tips off his (fill in the body part) while catching along w/a sore right hand from catching 90+ MPH fastballs.

I'd like to see C. Bloom/Oli sit him down now and tell him:

"Ivan you're a big part of this team going forward...............just NOT behind the plate".

DH him the remainder of the season.

Give him a 1st baseman's mitt next spring and then give him some time vs LHSP's (Burly get's a day off) next season.

But let him know his catching days are over.

He has NO VALUE behind the plate especially w/L. Bernal & of course R.R. steaming towards St. Louis.

His future here is at DH and as a possible P-T (25%) 1st baseman vs LHSP.

JMO

i think the team wanted to move that direction last year when they tried moving him to outfield for a few games but ivan voiced he still wants to catch

might be a pride or familiarity thing for him. while he had a few isolated 1b games he basically exclusiveky catcher since he was a teenager in hugh school and didnt want to give that up.

Yep, I remember starting a thread suggesting just that (Herrera to LF) before 2025 spring training.

But he looked really uncomfortable out there, that's no longer an option.

DH/P-T 1st baseman when a LHSP is on the mound (roughly 25+% of the time) is his best option.

to be fair, so did walker after spending half a minir league season and full spring practicing for it. it took awhile but walker looms fine now.

we just threw herrera there cold with a couple weeks if practice time there at most.

i think the bigger issue is whether herrera wants to give up catching.

Not like Herrera.

He looked like a deer caught in the headlights, almost praying no balls were hit to him!

He caught a couple routine flyballs but to my eyes he wanted nothing more to do w/the OF.

If he's dead set on catching more than a game or two a week as a backup to either L. Bernal first (2027?) and eventually R.R. (2028?), then sadly you'd have to deal him and I don't want to.

[scoutyjones2]

I doubt it. Miklasz said on his show Marmol is playing him too much.

He's caught 39 games!

That's too much? He DHs mostly.

Trade him

[ilcubuffs]

Agree with Scouty. IH is only a MLB catcher in his own mind. Even as DH is not memorable. Organization is supposed to be fixating on players fit into their future. NOT a player with no real position and requires at least one additional player to make up for his shortcomings.

[DIAMONDINTHEROUGH]

I doubt it. Miklasz said on his show Marmol is playing him too much.

He's caught 39 games!

That's too much? He DHs mostly.

Trade him

He says even hitters only can still benefit from a day off.

[rightthinker4]

He's been hit by 25 pitches this season, 40 over the last 2 seasons. And he got hit for the first time last night in the past 16 games. But over that period between his last HBP and the most recent one, he hit .143/.179/.190. 1 XBH in 67 PA. He's not even walking, 2 walks in 67 PA after having 49 in his first 388 PA.

I think its been the pitchers that have taken a toll on Herrera.