Army is out of options

[blues2112]

He clearly needs to send a message. What are we even playing for? I don’t want to keep hearing we are 3pts out of a playoff spot….i guess it’s 5 now so that’s a bonus. This team is absolute hot garbage and there is a serious problem in that locker room and it needs to be addressed before it infects our young players

As a homer, hard for me to say this, but you are 100-percent right.

Thumped by Avs in Denver? Understandable. Thumped by Bedard-less ChickenHawks? Mystifying.

once that second goal went in and the way it went in, you just knew the rest of the game was going to go poorly.

How can he play so spectacularly on Saturday, and then completely ish the bed in such an important game?

I don't know where his head is, but it isn't hasn't been on the ice much this season because his focus has been terrible.

They seem incredibly fragile.

[mph6689new]

Blues have to figure out (if they don’t already know), which players (including vets), they want to keep moving forward. Need quality players for youth to learn from and set the proper tone. Move on from the problems any way you can.

Unfortunately, the players that you want to keep for the transition are likely the players with trade value.

[mph6689new]

He clearly needs to send a message. What are we even playing for? I don’t want to keep hearing we are 3pts out of a playoff spot….i guess it’s 5 now so that’s a bonus. This team is absolute hot garbage and there is a serious problem in that locker room and it needs to be addressed before it infects our young players

As a homer, hard for me to say this, but you are 100-percent right.

Thumped by Avs in Denver? Understandable. Thumped by Bedard-less ChickenHawks? Mystifying.

once that second goal went in and the way it went in, you just knew the rest of the game was going to go poorly.

How can he play so spectacularly on Saturday, and then completely ish the bed in such an important game?

I don't know where his head is, but it isn't hasn't been on the ice much this season because his focus has been terrible.

They seem incredibly fragile.

Definitely mentally fragile.

[Ziggy3]

I've been against a big shakeup just because of how the team is structured right now, but the more losses like that I see the more I think it's got to be necessary.

Lose like that against a team loaded with guys that look like they don't even shave yet? Missing their 2 best forwards and they still score a touchdown? A division rival? What are we even doing here? What is any of this veteran leadership for if they can't keep a basement-dwelling Blackhawks team that's missing both Bedard and Nazar from dropping 7 on them?

It's well past the point of "put this one behind them," it's happened way too many times now, and against way too many teams where simple pride should at least keep the scores close.

The one promising thing is that the guys making me sit forward in my seat a little bit right now are mostly the youngsters. Stenberg, Snuggy, Dvorsky...screw it, let's see more of it. Let's see what Lindstein looks like in the big leagues. Give Kaskimaki another look. Why not? The season is done. Jan 7. and a loss like that, it's done. The real work is now going to be on the phones.

[Harry S Deals]

I've been against a big shakeup just because of how the team is structured right now, but the more losses like that I see the more I think it's got to be necessary.

Lose like that against a team loaded with guys that look like they don't even shave yet? Missing their 2 best forwards and they still score a touchdown? A division rival? What are we even doing here? What is any of this veteran leadership for if they can't keep a basement-dwelling Blackhawks team that's missing both Bedard and Nazar from dropping 7 on them?

It's well past the point of "put this one behind them," it's happened way too many times now, and against way too many teams where simple pride should at least keep the scores close.

The one promising thing is that the guys making me sit forward in my seat a little bit right now are mostly the youngsters. Stenberg, Snuggy, Dvorsky...screw it, let's see more of it. Let's see what Lindstein looks like in the big leagues. Give Kaskimaki another look. Why not? The season is done. Jan 7. and a loss like that, it's done. The real work is now going to be on the phones.

Wondering when they sit Kyrou although he did have a couple more chances last night there is zero intensity or fire in his game. Sit him until he wants a trade

[WilliamWestcliffe]

Someone in this organization needs to cut the cord and do whatever it takes to find a new core group of players that define the identity and game philosophy being demanded and coached. (No, I do NOT believe we have or ever will have the full stable of horses to play anything other than traditional Blues hockey. We're not Edmonton.)

We've done an admiral job finding valuable assets with middle round picks, but those players don't possess the core identity that this team needs. We drafted them as one of two things: supplemental skill to an established core identity or chips to eventually be traded for players that fit the core identity.

The problem is we don't have an already established core identity for guys like Thomas, Kyrou and Buchnevich to supplement and we've been too apprehensive - or failed - to use them as chips to acquire the players we need to define our core (e.g. Matthew Tkachuk).

So what we're left with is stuck in the middle. Stuck with guys like Thomas, Kyrou, and Buchnevich who have now become our core and thereby our identity by default.

Armstrong has been trying to mask the lack of desired identity in this core by surrounding them with veterans and/or role players with the hope they'll provide that identity, but they can't and they aren't. Your identity absolutely needs to come from your core players and this team is identifying as exactly how and who their core players are: soft, slow, unmotivated and disinterested. Berube very succinctly called it out.

If this leadership group really wants to "open another window", they need to face the hard truth that they need to jettison this core, cut the damage back to the studs and focus absolutely every bit of energy on establishing and acquiring a new core group to build around that they are certain align to the way this crest is meant to play.

At this point, I couldn't give a [shirt] less what the return is for Thomas, Kyrou, Buchnevich, Schenn, Faulk, Sundqvist, Suter, Fowler, or Binnington. Hit the reset button now, identify and acquire (at all cost) the players you want to build around for the next 3-6 years, and THEN re-supplement them with a second wave of players.

[Pierre McGuire]

Broberg and Stenberg might be the only two guys that I wouldn’t trade at this point. I think I’d be willing to listen on everybody else on this roster including Thomas….listen is the keyword there.

[Ziggy3]

The problem is we don't have an already established core identity for guys like Thomas, Kyrou and Buchnevich to supplement and we've been too apprehensive - or failed - to use them as chips to acquire the players we need to define our core (e.g. Matthew Tkachuk).

So what we're left with is stuck in the middle. Stuck with guys like Thomas, Kyrou, and Buchnevich who have now become our core and thereby our identity by default.

This is exactly right. We have no true driver on offense.

[TruBlueFan_1970]

Wanna send a message? Waive (yes, I said WAIVE) an NTC player. Show the team you're more willing to eat the loss than to endure the madness.

You mean like we did with Leddy?

Or Texier?

Or Saad?

Not sure about Texier, but okay ...nevermind ...it's just to early in the day...

None of those were core guys. They were cap dumps of players that had no value, or in Leddy’s case, a player with a NTC that turned down a trade (he ended up there anyway).

I would make a move that shows accountability to the core and the coaches. Bench Sunny. That cross ice pass in his own zone for a goal was horrid. Try to trade Buch for anything and if he rejects, waive him and send to the AHL. At the same time, fire Ott and Julien. The PP is awful. The PK is awful. The defensive scheme is awful. Some of the coaches have to share in that. May not solve all this teams issues, but it would be a start.

[Jeff Goldblum]

Get what you can for Kyrou. Get what you can for Binnington. Get what you can for a hot Faulk. At this point I'd say get what you can for Holloway.

[TruBlueFan_1970]

Broberg and Stenberg might be the only two guys that I wouldn’t trade at this point. I think I’d be willing to listen on everybody else on this roster including Thomas….listen is the keyword there.

Agreed. I’m a huge Parayko fan and would struggle to see him go, but nobody on this team should be untouchable in the right trade. Broberg is as close to that as you can get though.

[ManitobaBlues]

He clearly needs to send a message. What are we even playing for? I don’t want to keep hearing we are 3pts out of a playoff spot….i guess it’s 5 now so that’s a bonus. This team is absolute hot garbage and there is a serious problem in that locker room and it needs to be addressed before it infects our young players

Question is what’s the message. What’s the identity? The scheme? Army has drafted lean fast players to play a quick transition game. The coaching staff seems to teach a heavy, north south, on the forecheck style we won the Cup with 7 years ago. Surely confusing to your players. The former is the league trend not the latter. Look around the league teams generally don’t play the heavy game anymore. Also your team scoring is dependent on your top 6 producing every night. Generally there’s no supplemental scoring from your D or the bottom 6.

Exactly — this is where Armstrong and the Blues front office drop the ball. If Armstrong is committing to speed and fast players, then he needs to hire a coach that actually matches that style. Berube and Montgomery are both 200-foot, grind-it-out coaches — that’s just not a natural fit.

Bannister should’ve been kept, because a fast transition game was exactly his mindset. Instead, Armstrong panicked when Montgomery became available and didn’t want Chicago or Nashville getting him, so he jumped. Now the pieces and the system don’t line up, and here we are, eh.

[LGB73]

Our top 6 needs to be but much harder to play against on both ends of the ice. We're soft with a low compete level and little willingness to fight for the puck. It's hard to win a hockey game when over half the game you got too many guys on the ice not willing to fight for it. I don't care how good your shot is or pretty your passes are when you can't get or maintain possession of the puck.

Our future top 6 looks like Holloway, Neighbours, Thomas, Kyrou, Dvorsky and Snuggerud. Honest question: is that a line up that will make other teams have to fight for the puck in their O-Zone? their D-Zone?

[STL fan in MN]

I wouldn’t say he’s out of options…I just expect him to execute those options closer to the trade deadline than now. This team is hot garbage.

I’ve been in favor of trading Kyrou for years but maybe it’ll finally happen. Of course, his trade value couldn’t be lower now unfortunately.

Schenn is the obvious one to trade given his contract and perceived value to a contender as long as the Blues retain salary.

Faulk seems like an obvious one but I’d also be concerned throwing our young D to the wolves too so I’d be more cautious trading Faulk. But may also be a good idea to cash in on him while he’s hot this season.

Binner…maybe a hot Olympics ups his value but I also have no reason to believe he’s going to have a strong Olympics so I don’t see trading him as likely. We’d also either need a goalie to come back the other way or trust Zherenko enough to make he and Hofer the tandem and I just don’t.

I could see guys like MoJo go for a mid to later round pick too.

[TruBlueFan_1970]

I wouldn’t say he’s out of options…I just expect him to execute those options closer to the trade deadline than now. This team is hot garbage.

I’ve been in favor of trading Kyrou for years but maybe it’ll finally happen. Of course, his trade value couldn’t be lower now unfortunately.

Schenn is the obvious one to trade given his contract and perceived value to a contender as long as the Blues retain salary.

Faulk seems like an obvious one but I’d also be concerned throwing our young D to the wolves too so I’d be more cautious trading Faulk. But may also be a good idea to cash in on him while he’s hot this season.

Binner…maybe a hot Olympics ups his value but I also have no reason to believe he’s going to have a strong Olympics so I don’t see trading him as likely. We’d also either need a goalie to come back the other way or trust Zherenko enough to make he and Hofer the tandem and I just don’t.

I could see guys like MoJo go for a mid to later round pick too.

I’m not as worried about losing Faulk. Take a cap dump back in the form of a UFA Dman to finish out the season. And it sucks with Kyrou right now. A perennial 30 goal scorer and blazing speed that has little value. Such poor asset management when he should have been dealt at the draft, but maybe we never got an offer. Who knows. And they MUST find a way to rid themselves of Buch.

[Ziggy3]

Broberg and Stenberg might be the only two guys that I wouldn’t trade at this point. I think I’d be willing to listen on everybody else on this roster including Thomas….listen is the keyword there.

I'm still very close to calling Thomas "untouchable," but I agree, you absolutely listen.

We see what he is at this point. He is a very valuable player playing an extremely important position. I would even still argue he could be a 1C on a contending team, but that's IF he's surrounded by the right core. He, himself, is not a leader in his own right.

But I think you have to be very careful, because if you're not somehow getting that kind of guy back for him, you're suddenly leaving yourself without a 1C caliber player of any type at all.