Why not trade from surplus (catcher)?

[Cardinals4Life]

In particular catcher?

Pages and Pozos (limited if anything)
Hererra (some desperate team potentially giving him a chance as secondary catcher who can hit at DH and potentially other positions)

Crooks, Bernal, Rodriguez.

There are a lot of catchers at the top. Obviously a critical position so you want to hold onto 1-2 but I would think moving a controlled highly touted catching prospect (if done correctly), could fetch you a player of similar upside that fills a position of need.

Catcher has one of the highest bust rates in baseball. There is very little log jam. Neither Pages or Pozo will stand in the way of Bernal. Bernal is only turning 22 in February. He shouldn't be in any conversation for 2026, with an earliest ETA of 2027. Rodriguez is much younger, so you don't need to solve for him, either.

They can have one of Crooks / Pages / Pozo in a platoon with Bernal at AAA with the other 2 in the majors. If Herrera can catch, one of Pages / Pozo becomes fodder... they have very little value on the market.

If Herrera can catch 40-50 games and DH the rest... great. Use 2026 to figure that out. The nice part is that they have proximal depth to let that play out.

Bernal might be the major league starter in 2027 or 2028 assuming he hits at AAA.
Rodriguez you don't need to plan for yet - he should develop without concern about the players at AAA / MLB.

Herrera will be given the 1st shot as big league starter.
The question is who is his backup.....Crooks or Pages?
Crooks clearly has the most upside here.

If they go with Crooks, then Pages should/will be traded, leaving Bernal as the primary C in Memphis and Pozo backing him up.

If they go with Pages, then Crooks likely becomes the primary C at Memphis (unless traded), with Pozo as his backup and Bernal stays at Springfield a bit longer.

We also have Ryan Campos in the system too, somewhere between Bernal and Rodriguez.

Personally I think the big league club should be Herrera/Crooks, with Bernal/Pozo at Memphis. Bernal getting the bulk of time and Pozo there in case of an injury on the big league club. Pages, though I like him as a backup, would be dealt.

[82birds]

iffy, IMO, to have Herrera as #1 catcher (defense and throwing)

[rockondlouie]

In particular catcher?

Pages and Pozos (limited if anything)
Hererra (some desperate team potentially giving him a chance as secondary catcher who can hit at DH and potentially other positions)

Crooks, Bernal, Rodriguez.

There are a lot of catchers at the top. Obviously a critical position so you want to hold onto 1-2 but I would think moving a controlled highly touted catching prospect (if done correctly), could fetch you a player of similar upside that fills a position of need.

I think Pages could easily be a throw-in when Donny or JoJo are finally dealt.

Crooks could be added to Donny in a bigger deal.

No way you deal Bernal who's likely the (near F-T) spot holder until R.R. is ready.

R.R. looks to be the long-term solution whenever he arrives (2027? 2028?).

[ilcubuffs]

Donovan, Gorman, Pages/Pozo for Dodgers Pages and A pitching prospect.

[An Old Friend]

In particular catcher?

Pages and Pozos (limited if anything)
Hererra (some desperate team potentially giving him a chance as secondary catcher who can hit at DH and potentially other positions)

Crooks, Bernal, Rodriguez.

There are a lot of catchers at the top. Obviously a critical position so you want to hold onto 1-2 but I would think moving a controlled highly touted catching prospect (if done correctly), could fetch you a player of similar upside that fills a position of need.

Catcher has one of the highest bust rates in baseball. There is very little log jam. Neither Pages or Pozo will stand in the way of Bernal. Bernal is only turning 22 in February. He shouldn't be in any conversation for 2026, with an earliest ETA of 2027. Rodriguez is much younger, so you don't need to solve for him, either.

They can have one of Crooks / Pages / Pozo in a platoon with Bernal at AAA with the other 2 in the majors. If Herrera can catch, one of Pages / Pozo becomes fodder... they have very little value on the market.

If Herrera can catch 40-50 games and DH the rest... great. Use 2026 to figure that out. The nice part is that they have proximal depth to let that play out.

Bernal might be the major league starter in 2027 or 2028 assuming he hits at AAA.
Rodriguez you don't need to plan for yet - he should develop without concern about the players at AAA / MLB.

Herrera will be given the 1st shot as big league starter.
The question is who is his backup.....Crooks or Pages?
Crooks clearly has the most upside here.

If they go with Crooks, then Pages should/will be traded, leaving Bernal as the primary C in Memphis and Pozo backing him up.

If they go with Pages, then Crooks likely becomes the primary C at Memphis (unless traded), with Pozo as his backup and Bernal stays at Springfield a bit longer.

We also have Ryan Campos in the system too, somewhere between Bernal and Rodriguez.

Personally I think the big league club should be Herrera/Crooks, with Bernal/Pozo at Memphis. Bernal getting the bulk of time and Pozo there in case of an injury on the big league club. Pages, though I like him as a backup, would be dealt.

I think they’ll carry Herrera + 2. Herrera will be in the lineup for his bat and likely DH a lot. I could see a scenario where he’s catching but really just 40-50 games.

He wouldn’t be the backup catcher on days that he’s the starting DH.

[Cardinals4Life]

In particular catcher?

Pages and Pozos (limited if anything)
Hererra (some desperate team potentially giving him a chance as secondary catcher who can hit at DH and potentially other positions)

Crooks, Bernal, Rodriguez.

There are a lot of catchers at the top. Obviously a critical position so you want to hold onto 1-2 but I would think moving a controlled highly touted catching prospect (if done correctly), could fetch you a player of similar upside that fills a position of need.

Catcher has one of the highest bust rates in baseball. There is very little log jam. Neither Pages or Pozo will stand in the way of Bernal. Bernal is only turning 22 in February. He shouldn't be in any conversation for 2026, with an earliest ETA of 2027. Rodriguez is much younger, so you don't need to solve for him, either.

They can have one of Crooks / Pages / Pozo in a platoon with Bernal at AAA with the other 2 in the majors. If Herrera can catch, one of Pages / Pozo becomes fodder... they have very little value on the market.

If Herrera can catch 40-50 games and DH the rest... great. Use 2026 to figure that out. The nice part is that they have proximal depth to let that play out.

Bernal might be the major league starter in 2027 or 2028 assuming he hits at AAA.
Rodriguez you don't need to plan for yet - he should develop without concern about the players at AAA / MLB.

Herrera will be given the 1st shot as big league starter.
The question is who is his backup.....Crooks or Pages?
Crooks clearly has the most upside here.

If they go with Crooks, then Pages should/will be traded, leaving Bernal as the primary C in Memphis and Pozo backing him up.

If they go with Pages, then Crooks likely becomes the primary C at Memphis (unless traded), with Pozo as his backup and Bernal stays at Springfield a bit longer.

We also have Ryan Campos in the system too, somewhere between Bernal and Rodriguez.

Personally I think the big league club should be Herrera/Crooks, with Bernal/Pozo at Memphis. Bernal getting the bulk of time and Pozo there in case of an injury on the big league club. Pages, though I like him as a backup, would be dealt.

I think they’ll carry Herrera + 2. Herrera will be in the lineup for his bat and likely DH a lot. I could see a scenario where he’s catching but really just 40-50 games.

He wouldn’t be the backup catcher on days that he’s the starting DH.

Possible, especially if they don't want him as the primary catcher.

If they do want him as the primary C, then carrying 3 would be wasting a bench spot.

[Cardinals4Life]

iffy, IMO, to have Herrera as #1 catcher (defense and throwing)

I think he will surprise.
If he doesn't, then we have lots of other options.

[mattmitchl44]

I would still expect one of Pages or Crooks to be dealt, if Bloom can find the right return for them.

[Looksgoodonyouthough]

Thanks everyone for a solid baseball discussion on a pleasant Sunday morning. Whether or not Bloom chooses to trade, there is nothing wrong that another year of development and performance improvements won’t clarify for the org.

[Melville]

In particular catcher?

Pages and Pozos (limited if anything)
Hererra (some desperate team potentially giving him a chance as secondary catcher who can hit at DH and potentially other positions)

Crooks, Bernal, Rodriguez.

There are a lot of catchers at the top. Obviously a critical position so you want to hold onto 1-2 but I would think moving a controlled highly touted catching prospect (if done correctly), could fetch you a player of similar upside that fills a position of need.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

[Melville]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

[Melville]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

A team attempting to improve long term must trade from a position of depth to a position of dearth another franchise is seeking to bolster.
STL's priority needs going into this offseason were starting pitching and a quality RH hitting outfielder with multiple years of control.
Catcher is a position from which STL can trade - and should.
Like it or not, Bernal currently is the shortest pathway to obtaining what STL needs without damaging their own strategic plan and long term goals.
I am the only person on the planet who correctly understood the optimal time to trade The Paper Tyler, Hence, DeJong, Martinez, Reyes and several others - while also correctly identifying the keepers.
I do not believe I have been wrong with a single player recommendation in at least 5 years in discussing the Cardinals.
And, there is a 100% probability that I am right on this as well.
What Bernal may or may not be 3 years from now is not the strategic imperative - the important thing is what he (and others) can bring STL right now.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

A team attempting to improve long term must trade from a position of depth to a position of dearth another franchise is seeking to bolster.
STL's priority needs going into this offseason were starting pitching and a quality RH hitting outfielder with multiple years of control.
Catcher is a position from which STL can trade - and should.
Like it or not, Bernal currently is the shortest pathway to obtaining what STL needs without damaging their own strategic plan and long term goals.
I am the only person on the planet who correctly understood the optimal time to trade The Paper Tyler, Hence, DeJong, Martinez, Reyes and several others - while also correctly identifying the keepers.
I do not believe I have been wrong with a single player recommendation in at least 5 years in discussing the Cardinals.
And, there is a 100% probability that I am right on this as well.
What Bernal may or may not be 3 years from now is not the strategic imperative - the important thing is what he (and others) can bring STL right now.

You and I have had this discussion before. We agree on the concept of trading from the catching depth, we just disagree on who to keep. That's cool- I enjoy the discussion. I know it's never about you, so I'm sure you won't mind me saying that your track record may be a little more spotty than you suggest.

[Hoosier59]

I would like to see Bernal hit for a little bit better average. I believe he probably is the best defensive catcher of the group, but his ability of throwing out base stealers isn’t significantly better. His run production hasn’t been as good as Crooks, nor Herrera, for that matter. I like the combination of Herrera/Crooks offensively.
This coming season should go a long way towards determining what the future catching will look like.

[Shady]

I'm a little surprised that we haven't heard a peep of a rumor about trading a catcher this offseason.

I, of course, have perfectly analyzed and advised the correct course of action on this very topic for the past several months.
The CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to trade Bernal in a package (Mootbaar, Mathews, Hence, Walker, Saggese, Romero, C. Davis being among the mix-n-match pieces) for a premium RH outfield bat.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Which would then allow for retaining Donovan (offer an extension and if not agreed to, trade him in July).
Which is equally:
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.
Good to see others beginning to understand.

You, and you alone, are going to be the last one to realize that Bernal is the Cardinals catcher of the future. In three years, when Herrera and Rodriguez are playing other positions, Crooks and Pages are gone, and Bernal is the Cardinals primary catcher, I fully expect you to still be in denial. Until then, someone has to play the foil. Glad you are on the forum.

A team attempting to improve long term must trade from a position of depth to a position of dearth another franchise is seeking to bolster.
STL's priority needs going into this offseason were starting pitching and a quality RH hitting outfielder with multiple years of control.
Catcher is a position from which STL can trade - and should.
Like it or not, Bernal currently is the shortest pathway to obtaining what STL needs without damaging their own strategic plan and long term goals.
I am the only person on the planet who correctly understood the optimal time to trade The Paper Tyler, Hence, DeJong, Martinez, Reyes and several others - while also correctly identifying the keepers.
I do not believe I have been wrong with a single player recommendation in at least 5 years in discussing the Cardinals.
And, there is a 100% probability that I am right on this as well.
What Bernal may or may not be 3 years from now is not the strategic imperative - the important thing is what he (and others) can bring STL right now.

Melville posted, "while also correctly identifying the keepers". Just curious. Do you consider Gorman a "keeper"? If so, he better start showing it soon.