Is this rebuild essentially complete?

[ecleme22]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

This rebuild was never major, compared to other teams’ rebuilds.

Only some CTers acted like it was major and the end of the world…

Well, some think this is a multi year rebuild, so I guess over the course of a few years
it could turn out to be major.

After BD, NA, SG, WC and maybe JoJo are traded, that will be most of the tradeoff we will see.

We could see another year before we start really adding multi-year FAs. But the tradeoff will be done soon.

What people don't understand is we've been in a quasi-rebuild for 2.5 years now. Since TDL 2023, we haven't traded off any prospects, only accumulated them. And aside from Gray, haven't given out any big deals.

[Bully4you]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

This rebuild was never major, compared to other teams’ rebuilds.

Only some CTers acted like it was major and the end of the world…

Well, some think this is a multi year rebuild, so I guess over the course of a few years
it could turn out to be major.

After BD, NA, SG, WC and maybe JoJo are traded, that will be most of the tradeoff we will see.

We could see another year before we start really adding multi-year FAs. But the tradeoff will be done soon.

What people don't understand is we've been in a quasi-rebuild for 2.5 years now. Since TDL 2023, we haven't traded off any prospects, only accumulated them. And aside from Gray, haven't given out any big deals.

Good point.
We have been in a rebuild even though they wouldn't admit to it.
If they trade all those you mention this off season, that will be MAJOR!!!

[sikeston bulldog2]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

This rebuild was never major, compared to other teams’ rebuilds.

Only some CTers acted like it was major and the end of the world…

Well, some think this is a multi year rebuild, so I guess over the course of a few years
it could turn out to be major.

After BD, NA, SG, WC and maybe JoJo are traded, that will be most of the tradeoff we will see.

We could see another year before we start really adding multi-year FAs. But the tradeoff will be done soon.

What people don't understand is we've been in a quasi-rebuild for 2.5 years now. Since TDL 2023, we haven't traded off any prospects, only accumulated them. And aside from Gray, haven't given out any big deals.

Good point.
We have been in a rebuild even though they wouldn't admit to it.
If they trade all those you mention this off season, that will be MAJOR!!!

Yes. If they trade those five, and SG is gone, that would be major. I’d agree.

[Melville]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

The significance of trading N/A (again) will not be found in the return.
Getting him out of the way of better players will be the primary benefit.
Lars The Human Sushi-baar is also a dead Cardinal walking - just a matter of time.
That, too, will be primarily about clearing clutter and a long overdue correction of a colossal failure in judgement (not on my part, of course, as I am the only person on the planet who correctly forecast that failed experiment each of the past 4 seasons).
As you correctly note, Donovan does not need to be traded and probably shouldn't be - but Bloom seems determined to do so.
Ditto Contreras.
With them, the objective will be to add prospect depth to the organization more than anything else.
Then, there is the matter of Walker: he is down to his last chance and how Baez performs in the first 3 months or so in the minors is going to be a very large part of that equation.
Once all of that is straightened out, spending will change incrementally with significant increases beginning in 2028.
Finally, there is no rebuild.
Only a needed course correction.
Bloom intends to field a team in 2026 which can compete for a W/C while building for a more competitive contender long term - exactly as I advised.

[Melville]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

This rebuild was never major, compared to other teams’ rebuilds.

Only some CTers acted like it was major and the end of the world…

Correct.

[Bully4you]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

This rebuild was never major, compared to other teams’ rebuilds.

Only some CTers acted like it was major and the end of the world…

Well, some think this is a multi year rebuild, so I guess over the course of a few years
it could turn out to be major.

After BD, NA, SG, WC and maybe JoJo are traded, that will be most of the tradeoff we will see.

We could see another year before we start really adding multi-year FAs. But the tradeoff will be done soon.

What people don't understand is we've been in a quasi-rebuild for 2.5 years now. Since TDL 2023, we haven't traded off any prospects, only accumulated them. And aside from Gray, haven't given out any big deals.

Good point.
We have been in a rebuild even though they wouldn't admit to it.
If they trade all those you mention this off season, that will be MAJOR!!!

Yes. If they trade those five, and SG is gone, that would be major. I’d agree.

For sure that would be major.
You asked if May was the stud pitcher they acquired...I think he could be, BUT...
He has to prove it, and he hasn't proven anything yet in his young career.
Too injury prone thus far.

[Bully4you]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

The significance of trading N/A (again) will not be found in the return.
Getting him out of the way of better players will be the primary benefit.
Lars The Human Sushi-baar is also a dead Cardinal walking - just a matter of time.
That, too, will be primarily about clearing clutter and a long overdue correction of a colossal failure in judgement (not on my part, of course, as I am the only person on the planet who correctly forecast that failed experiment each of the past 4 seasons).
As you correctly note, Donovan does not need to be traded and probably shouldn't be - but Bloom seems determined to do so.
Ditto Contreras.
With them, the objective will be to add prospect depth to the organization more than anything else.
Then, there is the matter of Walker: he is down to his last chance and how Baez performs in the first 3 months or so in the minors is going to be a very large part of that equation.
Once all of that is straightened out, spending will change incrementally with significant increases beginning in 2028.
Finally, there is no rebuild.
Only a needed course correction.
Bloom intends to field a team in 2026 which can compete for a W/C while building for a more competitive contender long term - exactly as I advised.

It seems that you are correct in that this isn't really a true rebuild.
With Bloom adding May, it appears he might just be trying to compete in 2026.
We shall see, but I expect they ultimately hold onto Donovan and Contreras.
Nootbaar is immaterial to me.
Hope both he and Walker are traded and they somehow acquire a true RF.
That would be a nice start to 2026!

[Melville]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

The significance of trading N/A (again) will not be found in the return.
Getting him out of the way of better players will be the primary benefit.
Lars The Human Sushi-baar is also a dead Cardinal walking - just a matter of time.
That, too, will be primarily about clearing clutter and a long overdue correction of a colossal failure in judgement (not on my part, of course, as I am the only person on the planet who correctly forecast that failed experiment each of the past 4 seasons).
As you correctly note, Donovan does not need to be traded and probably shouldn't be - but Bloom seems determined to do so.
Ditto Contreras.
With them, the objective will be to add prospect depth to the organization more than anything else.
Then, there is the matter of Walker: he is down to his last chance and how Baez performs in the first 3 months or so in the minors is going to be a very large part of that equation.
Once all of that is straightened out, spending will change incrementally with significant increases beginning in 2028.
Finally, there is no rebuild.
Only a needed course correction.
Bloom intends to field a team in 2026 which can compete for a W/C while building for a more competitive contender long term - exactly as I advised.

It seems that you are correct in that this isn't really a true rebuild.
With Bloom adding May, it appears he might just be trying to compete in 2026.
We shall see, but I expect they ultimately hold onto Donovan and Contreras.
Nootbaar is immaterial to me.
Hope both he and Walker are traded and they somehow acquire a true RF.
That would be a nice start to 2026!

You are, of course, correct about Mootbaar and Walker.
As for Donovan and Contreras, the CORRECT BASEBALL DECISION is to keep them.
But it appears Bloom prefers to deal them if he can.

[sikeston bulldog2]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

The significance of trading N/A (again) will not be found in the return.
Getting him out of the way of better players will be the primary benefit.
Lars The Human Sushi-baar is also a dead Cardinal walking - just a matter of time.
That, too, will be primarily about clearing clutter and a long overdue correction of a colossal failure in judgement (not on my part, of course, as I am the only person on the planet who correctly forecast that failed experiment each of the past 4 seasons).
As you correctly note, Donovan does not need to be traded and probably shouldn't be - but Bloom seems determined to do so.
Ditto Contreras.
With them, the objective will be to add prospect depth to the organization more than anything else.
Then, there is the matter of Walker: he is down to his last chance and how Baez performs in the first 3 months or so in the minors is going to be a very large part of that equation.
Once all of that is straightened out, spending will change incrementally with significant increases beginning in 2028.
Finally, there is no rebuild.
Only a needed course correction.
Bloom intends to field a team in 2026 which can compete for a W/C while building for a more competitive contender long term - exactly as I advised.

It seems that you are correct in that this isn't really a true rebuild.
With Bloom adding May, it appears he might just be trying to compete in 2026.
We shall see, but I expect they ultimately hold onto Donovan and Contreras.
Nootbaar is immaterial to me.
Hope both he and Walker are traded and they somehow acquire a true RF.
That would be a nice start to 2026!

By adding May, he is only here a year-two max. Doesn’t fit into a rebuild. More like a get thru. My take.

[AnExParrot]

Why do you/would you think this is a single year endeavor?

You are probably correct.
We won't know if the rebuild is finished until they start winning again.
Looks like with a couple more modifications, this year's rebuild is nearly finished.
We will have to see what happens with 2026 as to whether the rebuild is ongoing.
Beautiful, just lovely.

There is no "this season's rebuild" - there is THE rebuild. It took years to f^<k, gonna take at least a couple years to unf^>k.

I agree with you.
But if they happen to somehow win 90+ games next year (farfetched).
Then this year would have completed the rebuild, right?
Isn't it all dependent on wins?

There's really not much to talk about if you don't understand what the team is trying to do. What you've posted so far in this thread shows no indication you have any idea of what a rebuild is, why it's being done, or just how it gets done. Get back to us when you figure that out.

Fair enough.
Explain it to me then.
Or not.

You don't know/remember what the Cubs did? You don't know/remember what the Astros did? You don't know what the Nats have been doing for the last few seasons?

You don't read what posters like mattmitch and rbirules have said/have been saying, for years, regarding this team, its need to rebuild, and just how it would/should be done?

It sure feels like you're feigning ignorance(for whatever end you have in mind), but I'll give you a little hand to get you started.

It isn't all dependent on wins - at this point the '26 win total is basically irrelevant. That was how the team got into this mess - winning enough just to get into the playoffs, in what most consider to be a weak division, and making a quick exit out of the playoffs because they just can't match talent with the likes of the coastal giants. The intent is to build a young core that can be supplemented by trades/FA signings to give the team a real shot at a ring. That wasn't the case in the last decade, and trying to patch the team year-over-year, to that end, just put them deeper in a hole as evidenced the last 2-3 seasons.

mattmitch(and rbi) have outlined this over and over, here, for several years. Like them or not, they were absolutely correct that it needed to happen and have a good grasp on how it needs to get done, and have shared it repeatedly for anyone wanting to know.

[Bully4you]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

The significance of trading N/A (again) will not be found in the return.
Getting him out of the way of better players will be the primary benefit.
Lars The Human Sushi-baar is also a dead Cardinal walking - just a matter of time.
That, too, will be primarily about clearing clutter and a long overdue correction of a colossal failure in judgement (not on my part, of course, as I am the only person on the planet who correctly forecast that failed experiment each of the past 4 seasons).
As you correctly note, Donovan does not need to be traded and probably shouldn't be - but Bloom seems determined to do so.
Ditto Contreras.
With them, the objective will be to add prospect depth to the organization more than anything else.
Then, there is the matter of Walker: he is down to his last chance and how Baez performs in the first 3 months or so in the minors is going to be a very large part of that equation.
Once all of that is straightened out, spending will change incrementally with significant increases beginning in 2028.
Finally, there is no rebuild.
Only a needed course correction.
Bloom intends to field a team in 2026 which can compete for a W/C while building for a more competitive contender long term - exactly as I advised.

It seems that you are correct in that this isn't really a true rebuild.
With Bloom adding May, it appears he might just be trying to compete in 2026.
We shall see, but I expect they ultimately hold onto Donovan and Contreras.
Nootbaar is immaterial to me.
Hope both he and Walker are traded and they somehow acquire a true RF.
That would be a nice start to 2026!

By adding May, he is only here a year-two max. Doesn’t fit into a rebuild. More like a get thru. My take.

If he pans out, you find a way to keep a guy that's already in the building.
Have to do it.
It all depends on the stage of the supposed rebuild.

[Shady]

With the dump of Gray and signing of his replacement?
Sure, Arenado needs to be dealt with, but nothing of significance coming back there.
Don't necessarily need to trade Donovan, as he could be part of rebuild.
So, if this is nearly all that will be done, it was a short and sweet rebuild.
At this juncture, does anyone call this a "Major Change"?
Even if they trade Donovan, it really isn't all that major.

This rebuild was never major, compared to other teams’ rebuilds.

Only some CTers acted like it was major and the end of the world…

I agree. The "major" is the starting pitching rotation. A better, deeper rotation would have likely got the Cardinals in the playoffs last seassn already. Of course, another really good hitter would have helped, too. And still would.

[LCA1951]

In my opinion, the number 1 issue is to remove Arenado from the team. After 23, the negativity began, both speech and negative vibe, began and remains. He literally blamed the young when his performance was not great, and he took no responsibility as being a team leader. In the off season he was traded to Houston but refused to accept the deal which blocked any attempt to open pathways for the younger players thus business as usual with him blocking progress. His performance tanked again but most importantly he discovered that no team in baseball wanted him. Yet, money driven decisions allowed him to continue to start. The Cardinals need him off the team and if not, then nothing will change. That gives the youngsters a chance that they can see. No offense to him but his team presence has run team decisions too long.

[Bully4you]

Why do you/would you think this is a single year endeavor?

You are probably correct.
We won't know if the rebuild is finished until they start winning again.
Looks like with a couple more modifications, this year's rebuild is nearly finished.
We will have to see what happens with 2026 as to whether the rebuild is ongoing.
Beautiful, just lovely.

There is no "this season's rebuild" - there is THE rebuild. It took years to f^<k, gonna take at least a couple years to unf^>k.

I agree with you.
But if they happen to somehow win 90+ games next year (farfetched).
Then this year would have completed the rebuild, right?
Isn't it all dependent on wins?

There's really not much to talk about if you don't understand what the team is trying to do. What you've posted so far in this thread shows no indication you have any idea of what a rebuild is, why it's being done, or just how it gets done. Get back to us when you figure that out.

Fair enough.
Explain it to me then.
Or not.

You don't know/remember what the Cubs did? You don't know/remember what the Astros did? You don't know what the Nats have been doing for the last few seasons?

You don't read what posters like mattmitch and rbirules have said/have been saying, for years, regarding this team, its need to rebuild, and just how it would/should be done?

It sure feels like you're feigning ignorance(for whatever end you have in mind), but I'll give you a little hand to get you started.

It isn't all dependent on wins - at this point the '26 win total is basically irrelevant. That was how the team got into this mess - winning enough just to get into the playoffs, in what most consider to be a weak division, and making a quick exit out of the playoffs because they just can't match talent with the likes of the coastal giants. The intent is to build a young core that can be supplemented by trades/FA signings to give the team a real shot at a ring. That wasn't the case in the last decade, and trying to patch the team year-over-year, to that end, just put them deeper in a hole as evidenced the last 2-3 seasons.

mattmitch(and rbi) have outlined this over and over, here, for several years. Like them or not, they were absolutely correct that it needed to happen and have a good grasp on how it needs to get done, and have shared it repeatedly for anyone wanting to know.

So, what should we do big guy?
Should we sell every asset we have and get prospects?
Accumulate tons of prospects and see what happens?
You do realize the success rate of prospects don't you?
And so, why sign May if that is the plan?
Makes zero sense.
Because he isn't planning on following Mattmitch or you or rbi etc.
I don't think this is a real rebuild.
That's why I said what I did as sarcasm.

[RichieRichSTL]

I expect them to trade more chips, otherwise it is a half-&ssed Mo special

Point of a rebuild is to leverage short term assets to try to find/bring in longer term ones. Without spending a lot of $$ and draft pics, the Cardinals will not be contenders this season and likely next season. 2024 showed that they were not willing to do what it took. They needed more than Gray and a couple of bum SPs to contend.

Let's face it, they need to stock their farm system with promising assets that will be ready within two years or close to it.. You dont do that by holding onto players that probably wont be long termers for you.

If Donovan, Contreras, Romero, Arenado, Noot and Burleson are all in this team going into next season, Bloom will have failed. I do not expect them all to be traded, some should if the rebuild is serious.

[sikeston bulldog2]

I expect them to trade more chips, otherwise it is a half-&ssed Mo special

Point of a rebuild is to leverage short term assets to try to find/bring in longer term ones. Without spending a lot of $$ and draft pics, the Cardinals will not be contenders this season and likely next season. 2024 showed that they were not willing to do what it took. They needed more than Gray and a couple of bum SPs to contend.

Let's face it, they need to stock their farm system with promising assets that will be ready within two years or close to it.. You dont do that by holding onto players that probably wont be long termers for you.

If Donovan, Contreras, Romero, Arenado, Noot and Burleson are all in this team going into next season, Bloom will have failed. I do not expect them all to be traded, some should if the rebuild is serious.

Why not trade them all. Done with some luck, the team would be super young. Then if we receive athletes, combine with a young stable core, we might compete.